Big Three screwed themselves and America

[Charles_Main]

And Toyota pays their workers almost the same as the Big 3...

Toyota Powers Ahead at Kentucky Plant : NPR

maybe, but they do not have nearly the same costs in Pensions and retired worker health care benefits. Which I said is costing GM alone 50 cents of every dollar they make.

Remember I live in Michigan, so I know a thing or two about this shit, A combination of this, poor decision making by the companies, and NAFTA has totally screwed this state. We went from being the power house of Americas manufacturing economy, to a damn slum in about 10 years.

 

[Chris]

maybe, but they do not have nearly the same costs in Pensions and retired worker health care benefits. Which I said is costing GM alone 50 cents of every dollar they make.

Remember I live in Michigan, so I know a thing or two about this shit, A combination of this, poor decision making by the companies, and NAFTA has totally screwed this state. We went from being the power house of Americas manufacturing economy, to a damn slum in about 10 years.

You are correct, sir.

 

[Charles_Main]

You are correct, sir.

Sure wish I could be wrong on this one 10% unemployment in Michigan sucks ass I can tell ya. That is why I am driving truck now. I have to drive to Chicago just to pick up the truck, because I could not find any companies hiring in Michigan.

 

[Gunny]

Let's see....an unpopular war, an oil crisis, inflation, rising interest rates..........IT'S 1974 ALL OVER AGAIN!!!

Really? What unpopular war were we fighting in 1974?

 

[sealybobo]

The Big Three auto makers fought fuel efficiency standards for years and pushed big SUVs and trucks, and now they are going down.

The Associated Press: Bleeding cash, Ford looks to Europe for help

For awhile I thought the oil companies were screwing the auto companies, but I don't think so now. Ford is making a killing in China. I think they are purposely bankrupting themselves here at home so they can break the unions and get out of the pensions they owe thousands of retirees. Look at how much they pay their ceo's, vp's, directors, etc. My brother wasn't even that high up and he made $300k. He was a hr exec and paid the bosses their bonus'. No matter how bad the company did, their bonus' just kept going up and up. If it is all on accident, then they are dumb as hell. My brother doesn't know this is the gameplan, he's just happy to get a big bonus too. Meanwhile, everyone around him lost their job too. So eventually, there might not be an american auto manufacturer in America, or they'll go out of business and start over, only this time they won't pay hourly workers well, they won't have pensions and they will have wrote off all the retirees.

The thing I care about most are the retirees. They should get what they were promised. I can't stand hearing people are losing their pensions. They counted on them.

Kids that don't want to go to school make a choice. If they aren't offered a penion then they don't count on it.

They just cut out pensions for salaried non union retirees. They weren't promised those pensions, so i'm ok with them cutting those out. Union retirees earned and deserve their retirement packages.

That's why the big 3 mismanaged themselves for so many yrs.

I live in mi and have seen many unions get squashed.

I'm not in a union but wish we would all join a national union for all employees. Then the politicians and corporations would have to answer to us. We could shut the economy down. They would have to increase our wages. And we would revolt if they pay the ceo's $20 mill and us only $10 hr!

 

[dilloduck]

For awhile I thought the oil companies were screwing the auto companies, but I don't think so now. Ford is making a killing in China. I think they are purposely bankrupting themselves here at home so they can break the unions and get out of the pensions they owe thousands of retirees. Look at how much they pay their ceo's, vp's, directors, etc. My brother wasn't even that high up and he made $300k. He was a hr exec and paid the bosses their bonus'. No matter how bad the company did, their bonus' just kept going up and up. If it is all on accident, then they are dumb as hell. My brother doesn't know this is the gameplan, he's just happy to get a big bonus too. Meanwhile, everyone around him lost their job too. So eventually, there might not be an american auto manufacturer in America, or they'll go out of business and start over, only this time they won't pay hourly workers well, they won't have pensions and they will have wrote off all the retirees.

The thing I care about most are the retirees. They should get what they were promised. I can't stand hearing people are losing their pensions. They counted on them.

Kids that don't want to go to school make a choice. If they aren't offered a penion then they don't count on it.

They just cut out pensions for salaried non union retirees. They weren't promised those pensions, so i'm ok with them cutting those out. Union retirees earned and deserve their retirement packages.

That's why the big 3 mismanaged themselves for so many yrs.

I live in mi and have seen many unions get squashed.

I'm not in a union but wish we would all join a national union for all employees. Then the politicians and corporations would have to answer to us. We could shut the economy down. They would have to increase our wages. And we would revolt if they pay the ceo's $20 mill and us only $10 hr!

workers unite !! you crack me up, dude.
get your buddies to pay me $100,000 grand a year and I'll do what I can for ya. Trust me.

 

[Chris]

Sure wish I could be wrong on this one 10% unemployment in Michigan sucks ass I can tell ya. That is why I am driving truck now. I have to drive to Chicago just to pick up the truck, because I could not find any companies hiring in Michigan.

Unemployment is low here in Va., but I am in business for myself.(realtor)

 

[Charles_Main]

Unemployment is low here in Va., but I am in business for myself.(realtor)

hows the housing market there.

 

[Chris]

hows the housing market there.

Not bad. The military is the biggest employer here and they all have 100% financing.

Also we did not have a lot of speculation.

I have sold 3 houses this month, which is a good month for me.

 

[Charles_Main]

Not bad. The military is the biggest employer here and they all have 100% financing.

Also we did not have a lot of speculation.

I have sold 3 houses this month, which is a good month for me.

Well as you can Imagine the housing market here is in shambles, Which is what prompted my move from Contracting to trucking. Of course it is not all bad, as It allowed me to buy a house for a steal of of a deal, but if I had not had cash to do it, I would never have got financed to do it. Thank god I saved money before I had kids

 

[Chris]

Well as you can Imagine the housing market here is in shambles, Which is what prompted my move from Contracting to trucking. Of course it is not all bad, as It allowed me to buy a house for a steal of of a deal, but if I had not had cash to do it, I would never have got financed to do it. Thank god I saved money before I had kids

Contractors here who do repair work on their own have tons of work. My guy is working seven days a week.

Did you read about the shale oil boomtown in Canada?

 

[Charles_Main]

Contractors here who do repair work on their own have tons of work. My guy is working seven days a week.

Did you read about the shale oil boomtown in Canada?

Yeah, I could probably make more money if I moved, by all my wifes family lives here, and she refused to leave. I once got here to move to Florida for a year, but she hated it, hated the heat, hated the bugs, and missed her family. A shame because I was doing rather well down there. Of course it was the year of all he hurricanes, so there was plenty of work

No I didn't read about the Shale town thing, But I think we should be looking into our own vast shale oil supplies. Some estimates say it is more than 5 times what Saudi has. WOW!!

 

[sealybobo]

workers unite !! you crack me up, dude.
get your buddies to pay me $100,000 grand a year and I'll do what I can for ya. Trust me.

lol. I'm sure they laughed at Jimmy Hoffa when he suggested it too. Reagan slowly started breaking the unions so its been almost 30 yrs in the making. The next union will have to be all workers so they can't break us.

And you are right. No one complained as workers were let go because they were still making $100 to $200k. Then they lost their jobs too and now they make $50k somewhere else. Now that the unions aren't setting the standard for pay, all companies are paying less. Even if you aren't in a union, you benefitted. Vacation days, overtime pay, sick leave, 2 15 minute breaks and an hour for lunch, labor laws, max hours they can make you work, wages.

So Ford is doing well in europe and china. They did well here in the 80's and 90's too. I really think their troubles here are on purpose. The top brass are making a fortune while the companies are going bankrupt, but they wil just restructure and save by screwing the retirees.

Yes I know you would go along for $100k. Its human nature.

The execs have two rules. Rule number one, Feed the Generals first. Rule number 2? Never forget rule number 1.

 

[Charles_Main]

lol. I'm sure they laughed at Jimmy Hoffa when he suggested it too. Reagan slowly started breaking the unions so its been almost 30 yrs in the making. The next union will have to be all workers so they can't break us.

And you are right. No one complained as workers were let go because they were still making $100 to $200k. Then they lost their jobs too and now they make $50k somewhere else. Now that the unions aren't setting the standard for pay, all companies are paying less. Even if you aren't in a union, you benefitted. Vacation days, overtime pay, sick leave, 2 15 minute breaks and an hour for lunch, labor laws, max hours they can make you work, wages.

So Ford is doing well in europe and china. They did well here in the 80's and 90's too. I really think their troubles here are on purpose. The top brass are making a fortune while the companies are going bankrupt, but they wil just restructure and save by screwing the retirees.

Yes I know you would go along for $100k. Its human nature.

The execs have two rules. Rule number one, Feed the Generals first. Rule number 2? Never forget rule number 1.

I was unaware the UAW had been broken. LOL get a clue man!

 

[Chris]

Yeah, I could probably make more money if I moved, by all my wifes family lives here, and she refused to leave. I once got here to move to Florida for a year, but she hated it, hated the heat, hated the bugs, and missed her family. A shame because I was doing rather well down there. Of course it was the year of all he hurricanes, so there was plenty of work

No I didn't read about the Shale town thing, But I think we should be looking into our own vast shale oil supplies. Some estimates say it is more than 5 times what Saudi has. WOW!!

Sorry, it was oil sands. Here's the link....

Oil boomtown awash in oil money, and problems - Jul. 10, 2008

 

[FMVALUES]

the big three are a bit slow at adapting.but the wages and benefits they pay allow their workers to afford a decent living.small cars are not for everyone i have 5 children and a construction business i need a van for travel i live in a rural area and a pickup for work.I hope they will adapt and pull out of this .I want to buy american products as much as possible

 

[Charles_Main]

the big three are a bit slow at adapting.but the wages and benefits they pay allow their workers to afford a decent living.

problem is those wages, and more importantly the retirement packages make it awfully hard for them to compete. Especially when companies like Toyota are allowed to open factories in the US, and not allow them to unionize, when the Big 3 can't open non union shops, with out sending them over seas anyways.

Not that they have not made some poor decisions themselves.

 

[sealybobo]

I was unaware the UAW had been broken. LOL get a clue man!

Just keep watching. They don't have any power anymore. Ford will just close the plant and move. They are getting weaker and weaker. New hires start off making a lot less nowadays and aren't being promised what the old dudes are. As the older guys take buy outs or die, their numbers are getting smaler.

Charlie, I wish you would stop responding to me. Really. You live in michigan and don't see what happening? You sound jealous because they were doing sooooo much better than you. I really hate everything about you. Se my post to someone else wasn't rude? You bring out the worst in me. Such a knowitall. I know what i'm talking about. That's why I'm twice as succesful as you. That's why my 401k is growing and yours is almost empty. You hate unions because misery loves company.

When the big three stars renigging on pensions and the uaw loses members, yes, the unions are being broken you dumb mother fucker. no they aren't broke completely yet. did I say that? so you get a fucking clue.

god I hate you. prove it you.....I won't say it. I want to though because you are all the same. Its why most people don't like you people. So annoying.

 

[dilloduck]

lol. I'm sure they laughed at Jimmy Hoffa when he suggested it too. Reagan slowly started breaking the unions so its been almost 30 yrs in the making. The next union will have to be all workers so they can't break us.

And you are right. No one complained as workers were let go because they were still making $100 to $200k. Then they lost their jobs too and now they make $50k somewhere else. Now that the unions aren't setting the standard for pay, all companies are paying less. Even if you aren't in a union, you benefitted. Vacation days, overtime pay, sick leave, 2 15 minute breaks and an hour for lunch, labor laws, max hours they can make you work, wages.

So Ford is doing well in europe and china. They did well here in the 80's and 90's too. I really think their troubles here are on purpose. The top brass are making a fortune while the companies are going bankrupt, but they wil just restructure and save by screwing the retirees.

Yes I know you would go along for $100k. Its human nature.

The execs have two rules. Rule number one, Feed the Generals first. Rule number 2? Never forget rule number 1.

How many times have unions "mismanaged" pension funds ?

 

[sealybobo]

How many times have unions "mismanaged" pension funds ?

As far as I know, never. Its the company that manages the pension funds.

I remember companies were struggling after 9 11 so bush and the gop congress passed a bill allowing them to dip into their pension funds.

I almost forgot about that one.