Big Three screwed themselves and America

[dilloduck]

The unions have nothing to do with the rise in the price of oil, and the fact that the Big 3 ignored fuel efficiency while other manufacturers like Toyota and Honda kept developing fuel efficient cars for the American market.

No but the unions have plenty to do with the cost of doing businesss. Japanese simply made a better car for less money. How were they able to do that ?

 

[Chris]

These nuts don't want to hear economic facts about union and retiree benefits.....they want to hear about those big old evil CEO's and their benefits....
The leftists have them believing that GM and FORD exist for the benefit of the workers and have no other moral purpose....

It's the workers fault...yea....right.

That's why Toyota is successful in America with THE SAME WORKERS!

 

[Alpha1]

double post

Kirt can't see the little picture, how do you expect him to have any conception of the big picture.....to him ... Corps are evil....even though they are 99.8% responsible for creating the middle class with high wages and benefits for blue collar laborers ....
As the left screws them with higher and higher taxes and they ship jobs to other countrys, maybe he will open his eyes...

 

[Care4all]

Toyota could hardly give the damn hybreds away before this year....

GM and FORD built and sold what Americans wanted....no one forced people to by trucks and SUV's.....they will adapt if the oil disappears, ... will you?

who created the suv in the first place? ''if you build it, they will come''...Field of Dreams comes in to play too alpha...not to negate what you said about amercans liking suv's!

care

 

[Alpha1]

It's the workers fault...yea....right.

That's why Toyota is successful in America with THE SAME WORKERS!

The UAW has never succeeded in organizing a foreign auto assembly plant in the United States

Get a clue sonny...

 

[Chris]

No, I am sure they would be selling more cars if they had more fuel efficient cars, but that would not change the fact that they are shelling butt loads out for labor, and for Pensions and health care for retired workers.

I mean why do you think they keep sending Jobs over seas? If not because of high labor costs, and Retired worker costs, then why.

It turns out we are both right.....

From Wiki....

"The increase in SUV sales was assisted by a legislative loophole. Created in the 1970s, the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards were established as minimums for passenger vehicles. Exceptions were granted business and farm vehicles. Car manufacturers utilized this loophole by selling SUVs as work vehicles [[9]]. In the last 25 years, and even more in the last decade, the popularity of SUVs has increased among urban drivers. Consequently, more modern SUVs often come with luxury features and some crossover SUVs have adopted lower ride heights and use unibody construction to better accommodate on-road driving.


Jeep Cherokee: SUV trend-setter.The New York Times's ex-Detroit bureau chief, a recipient of the New York Public Library Bernstein Award for excellence in journalism, has linked the rise of the SUV directly to AMC lobbying the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for a waiver to the Clean Air Act: as a result, the EPA designated AMC's compact Jeep Cherokee (XJ) a "light truck", which enabled the company to market it to everyday drivers.[2] This in turn led to the SUV boom when other automakers marketed their own imitators in response to the Cherokee taking sales from their regular cars.[3]


[edit] Popularity
SUVs became popular in the United States, Canada, and Australia in the 1990s and early 2000s for a variety of reasons, this trend was known as the SUV craze.

US automakers could enjoy profit margins of $10,000 per SUV, while losing a few hundred dollars on a compact car. [4] For instance, the Ford Excursion could net the company $18,000, while they could not break even with the Ford Focus unless the buyer chose options.[5][6] This led to Detroit's big three automakers focusing resources and design on SUVs over small cars (small cars were sold mainly to attract young buyers with inexpensive options and to increase their fleet average fuel economies to meet federal standards). The high wages of unionized workers in the United States and Canada (members of the UAW and CAW, respectively), compared to non-union workers such as that of Toyota, meant that it was unprofitable to have them build small cars.[7] The General Motors Arlington, Texas factory where rear-wheel drive cars were built, such as the Chevrolet Caprice and Buick Roadmaster, was converted to truck and SUV production, putting an end to full-size family station wagon and overall terminating production of rear-wheel drive full-size cars."

 

[Charles_Main]

It turns out we are both right.....

that is what I have been saying all along sherlock.

 

[Charles_Main]

The UAW has never succeeded in organizing a foreign auto assembly plant in the United States

Get a clue sonny...

I am afraid kirk is hopeless Destined to be eternally clueless.

 

[Chris]

I am afraid kirk is hopeless Destined to be eternally clueless.

That's because "the left" is trying to control you life.

 

[Alpha1]

It turns out we are both right.....

From Wiki....

"The increase in SUV sales was assisted by a legislative loophole. Created in the 1970s, the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards were established as minimums for passenger vehicles. Exceptions were granted business and farm vehicles. Car manufacturers utilized this loophole by selling SUVs as work vehicles [[9]]. In the last 25 years, and even more in the last decade, the popularity of SUVs has increased among urban drivers. Consequently, more modern SUVs often come with luxury features and some crossover SUVs have adopted lower ride heights and use unibody construction to better accommodate on-road driving.
-------------------------------------------------

You're right about nothing.....if the market, the customers, the buyers weren't there, the SUV would not exist.....it had little to nothing to do with MPG....

 

[Chris]

It turns out we are both right.....

From Wiki....

"The increase in SUV sales was assisted by a legislative loophole. Created in the 1970s, the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards were established as minimums for passenger vehicles. Exceptions were granted business and farm vehicles. Car manufacturers utilized this loophole by selling SUVs as work vehicles [[9]]. In the last 25 years, and even more in the last decade, the popularity of SUVs has increased among urban drivers. Consequently, more modern SUVs often come with luxury features and some crossover SUVs have adopted lower ride heights and use unibody construction to better accommodate on-road driving.
-------------------------------------------------

You're right about nothing.....if the market, the customers, the buyers weren't there, the SUV would not exist.....it had little to nothing to do with MPG....

Advertising created the market. People buy what the TV tells them to buy.

 

[Alpha1]

That's because "the left" is trying to control you life.

I believe you say that jest, but it has a certain amount of truth to it.....

If you start without any preconceived conclusions and think about it.....
you'll see it...and it(the slide to socialism) will continue for a time yet, but "critical mass" will eventually be reached and the people will wise up sooner rather than later....we've already come far from what the founders of the country envisioned.....and thats not good....

 

[Chris]

I believe you say that jest, but it has a certain amount of truth to it.....

If you start without any preconceived conclusions and think about it.....
you'll see it...and it(the slide to socialism) will continue for a time yet, but "critical mass" will eventually be reached and the people will wise up sooner rather than later....we've already come far from what the founders of the country envisioned.....and thats not good....

The founders of this country owned slaves and wore wigs.

We've come a long way since then.

It always cracks me up to hear people talk about "socialism."

 

[Alpha1]

Advertising created the market. People buy what the TV tells them to buy.

Really ? Thats interesting..... do ads and advertisements cause YOU to buy things you don't want or need....on a personal level....are you driven to do or say or buy things because of advertisements...?

 

[Charles_Main]

I believe you say that jest, but it has a certain amount of truth to it.....

.

Actually he said it to deflect from that fact that a grandma had just blown him away, and exposed his Ignorance once again. He kept saying Toyota uses the same workers as the BIG 3. But She reminded him that the UAW has never succeeded in Unionizing one of Toyota's plants in the US.

So instead of admitting he was wrong, he said that

 

[Alpha1]

The founders of this country owned slaves and wore wigs.

We've come a long way since then.

It always cracks me up to hear people talk about "socialism."

Do you have a problem with the wigs or the slaves..?

If you had lived in those times of yore you consider owning "a slave" as very very normal....as a matter of fact, if you would convert to Muslim, your wife and females in your family would be your slaves.....
I you lived in various parts of Africa, you would either be one or own one....

Of course cultures differ and cultures change and that is as it should be....the ultimate change leading to freedom.... not socialism....

 

[Alpha1]

Actually he said it to deflect from that fact that a grandma had just blown him away, and exposed his Ignorance once again. He kept saying Toyota uses the same workers as the BIG 3. But She reminded him that the UAW has never succeeded in Unionizing one of Toyota's plants in the US.

So instead of admitting he was wrong, he said that

No shit...just who is this "she/grandma" ???

Are you saying my Grandkids should be calling me Nana instead of Poppop ???

 

[Chris]

Actually he said it to deflect from that fact that a grandma had just blown him away, and exposed his Ignorance once again. He kept saying Toyota uses the same workers as the BIG 3. But She reminded him that the UAW has never succeeded in Unionizing one of Toyota's plants in the US.

So instead of admitting he was wrong, he said that

I posted the link, how is that not "admitting I was wrong?"

 

[Charles_Main]

I posted the link, how is that not "admitting I was wrong?"

Because to admit you are wrong, you have to actually say, "Opps sorry I was wrong". Not "it turns out we were Both right"

Now, who is going to start a thread about how Japanese car companies are exploiting American workers in non union factories is what I want to know. LOL

 

[Chris]

Actually he said it to deflect from that fact that a grandma had just blown him away, and exposed his Ignorance once again. He kept saying Toyota uses the same workers as the BIG 3. But She reminded him that the UAW has never succeeded in Unionizing one of Toyota's plants in the US.

So instead of admitting he was wrong, he said that

And Toyota pays their workers almost the same as the Big 3...

Toyota Powers Ahead at Kentucky Plant : NPR