Big Oil Companies Demand "Tax Relief"!

[Itsthetruth]

REFINERIES APPEAL TO COUNTY FOR TAX RELIEF
Up to $33 million at stake if properties reassessed
By Peter Felsenfeld

CONTRA COSTA TIMES
March 24, 2005

Despite banner profits, Contra Costa's two largest oil refineries want the county to cut this year's property tax bills by about two-thirds.

If ChevronTexaco and Shell Oil Products succeed in appealing the annual assessment, the state, county, Martinez, Richmond and two school districts would receive up to $33 million less than what the county billed, according to the Contra Costa Assessor's Office. Additionally, the ConocoPhillips refinery in Rodeo is seeking a $2.1 million reduction, a 23 percent cut.

The county's gasoline producing giants often contest their property taxes -- as do other companies -- but not to this degree, Contra Costa Assessor Gus Kramer said. "In light of the price of gasoline and their profits, this is obscene," Kramer said. "It's truly shameless."

The dispute unfolds during a high time for the nation's oil companies. The ChevronTexaco Corp. in 2004 earned more than $13 billion after taxes, a 77 percent increase over 2003, according to company filings. The corporate parents for ConocoPhillips and Shell last year enjoyed 77 percent and 42 percent gains over 2003, respectively.


http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld...nia/counties/contra_costa_county/11217797.htm

 

[dilloduck]

REFINERIES APPEAL TO COUNTY FOR TAX RELIEF
Up to $33 million at stake if properties reassessed
By Peter Felsenfeld

CONTRA COSTA TIMES
March 24, 2005

Despite banner profits, Contra Costa's two largest oil refineries want the county to cut this year's property tax bills by about two-thirds.

If ChevronTexaco and Shell Oil Products succeed in appealing the annual assessment, the state, county, Martinez, Richmond and two school districts would receive up to $33 million less than what the county billed, according to the Contra Costa Assessor's Office. Additionally, the ConocoPhillips refinery in Rodeo is seeking a $2.1 million reduction, a 23 percent cut.

The county's gasoline producing giants often contest their property taxes -- as do other companies -- but not to this degree, Contra Costa Assessor Gus Kramer said. "In light of the price of gasoline and their profits, this is obscene," Kramer said. "It's truly shameless."

The dispute unfolds during a high time for the nation's oil companies. The ChevronTexaco Corp. in 2004 earned more than $13 billion after taxes, a 77 percent increase over 2003, according to company filings. The corporate parents for ConocoPhillips and Shell last year enjoyed 77 percent and 42 percent gains over 2003, respectively.


http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld...nia/counties/contra_costa_county/11217797.htm

So your mad that they are trying to stop people from stealing so much from them?

 

[5stringJeff]

REFINERIES APPEAL TO COUNTY FOR TAX RELIEF
Up to $33 million at stake if properties reassessed
By Peter Felsenfeld

CONTRA COSTA TIMES
March 24, 2005

Despite banner profits, Contra Costa's two largest oil refineries want the county to cut this year's property tax bills by about two-thirds.

If ChevronTexaco and Shell Oil Products succeed in appealing the annual assessment, the state, county, Martinez, Richmond and two school districts would receive up to $33 million less than what the county billed, according to the Contra Costa Assessor's Office. Additionally, the ConocoPhillips refinery in Rodeo is seeking a $2.1 million reduction, a 23 percent cut.

The county's gasoline producing giants often contest their property taxes -- as do other companies -- but not to this degree, Contra Costa Assessor Gus Kramer said. "In light of the price of gasoline and their profits, this is obscene," Kramer said. "It's truly shameless."

The dispute unfolds during a high time for the nation's oil companies. The ChevronTexaco Corp. in 2004 earned more than $13 billion after taxes, a 77 percent increase over 2003, according to company filings. The corporate parents for ConocoPhillips and Shell last year enjoyed 77 percent and 42 percent gains over 2003, respectively.


http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld...nia/counties/contra_costa_county/11217797.htm

Those evil oil companies! How dare they try to maximize profits!

 

[Itsthetruth]

Those evil oil companies! How dare they try to maximize profits!

I have a few other real good ideas, besides tax evasion, on how big oil can increase their profits.

Jack up the price of gasoline to $5.00 a gallon.

Just refuse to pay any corporate taxes. Period. Not a penny for taxes! Nothing wrong with corporate tax evasion at all.

Cut the pay of all oil company workers (except executives) to about $6.00 an hour. Oil company tycoons should have their pay increased to about a million bucks an hour. They work very hard.

Now that's the ticket! What ideas would you like to share on how "we" can increase oil company profits to maybe 50 billion bucks a year? And no taxes!

If you're an oil company executive let me apologize. I really didn't mean to spoil your scam. If you're a oil company attorney, how much of those unpaid oil company taxes do you expect to pocket if the tax dodge is successful?

 

[dilloduck]

I have a few other real good ideas, besides tax evasion, on how big oil can increase their profits.

Jack up the price of gasoline to $5.00 a gallon.

Just refuse to pay any corporate taxes. Period. Not a penny for taxes! Nothing wrong with corporate tax evasion at all.

Cut the pay of all oil company workers (except executives) to about $6.00 an hour.

Now that's the ticket! What ideas would you like to share on how "we" can increase oil company profits to maybe 50 billion bucks a year? And no taxes!

If you're an oil company executive let me apologize. I really didn't mean to spoil your scam. If you're a oil company attorney, how much of those unpaid oil company taxes do you expect to pocket if the tax dodge is successful?

Sold all your Texaco stock?? --- dad told ya to get into the oil businesss but you didn't listen???

 

[freeandfun1]

First off, property taxes are not corporate taxes. They are taxes on something you already own. Which is bullshit.

Now, putting that aside, I bet the disagreement stems from how the county/city is assessing the taxes. More than likely, they are saying the land is worth "y" when in all actuality, it is probably worthy "x" which is much less than "y". The county/city is probably saying this land would sell for millions and billions of dollars if this damn greedy oil company wasn't sitting here. Again, reality - the land is probably so contaminated that nobody would want to build there. So the land really is only worth "y".

Property taxes are bullshit because rarely do the people have any control over how the government values the property.

 

[dilloduck]

First off, property taxes are not corporate taxes. They are taxes on something you already own. Which is bullshit.

Now, putting that aside, I bet the disagreement stems from how the county/city is assessing the taxes. More than likely, they are saying the land is worth "y" when in all actuality, it is probably worthy "x" which is much less than "y". The city/county is probably saying this land would sell for millions and billions of dollars if this damn greedy oil company wasn't sitting here. Again, reality - the land is probably so contaminated that nobody would want to build there. So the land really is worthy only "y".

Property taxes are bullshit because rarely do the people have any control over how the government values the property.

So true---amazing how they assess property according to how much money they need!

 

[Itsthetruth]

First off, property taxes are not corporate taxes.

There are all kinds of corporate taxes that corporations pay such as federal taxes, state taxes, property taxes, local business taxes, etc.,

We can play around with words if you like, however, the big oil corporations consider any tax on their operations to be a corporate tax. The owners aren't being taxed, the CEO's are not being required to pay taxes, it's the corporation, the business being taxed! Do you understand that?

But, let's get back to the issue. Why do you support tax evasion by big business and do you have any great ideas on how we can increase the meager profits on the nearly bankrupt oil companies.

I really want to do my share to help the poor starving oil companies and have presented a few great ideas on how we can help them increase their bottom line. Won't you help them out? Perhaps you can send them a check.

Here's what Ralph Nader said in an exchange with Robert Novak when he hosted CNN's Crossfire on Monday.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


RALPH NADER: All right, oil prices are skyrocketing.

Over $2 per gallon and closer to $3 per gallon in California. Every penny per gallon per year amounts to $1.5 billion from your consumer pocketbooks to the oil industry.

Yet, the Bush regime refuses a thorough investigation, especially into the closings and reduction of refinery capacity in this country. Oil men Bush and Cheney also refuse to regulate upward your vehicle's fuel efficiency to levels long achievable by auto engineers and already achieved by Toyota and Honda cars. Wake up, General Motors.

ROBERT NOVAK: Well, Ralph, you know very well, of course, that the problem is that we haven't been building refinery capacities because of environmentalists like you. And we haven't been drilling in the ANWR, where the -- you're so worried about the fuzzy animals that we don't get oil out of there.

NADER: Let's add, closing 24 refineries in the last 25 years; 24 refineries in this country, they have closed down. They could build new ones on the same site, no environmental problems.

NOVAK: Well, they should. They should. But you people have made it very hard. You want everybody to walk around with a cane, instead of ride in a car. You know, we..

NADER: Do have you the citation for that claim, Bob?

NOVAK: I don't.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/21/cf.01.html

 

[Yurt]

There are all kinds of corporate taxes that corporations pay such as federal taxes, state taxes, property taxes, local business taxes, etc.,

We can play around with words if you like, however, the big oil corporations consider any tax on their operations to be a corporate tax. The owners aren't being taxed, the CEO's are not being required to pay taxes, it's the corporation, the business being taxed! Do you understand that?


I really want to do my share to help the poor starving oil companies and have presented a few great ideas on how we can help them increase their bottom line. Won't you help them out? Perhaps you can send them a check.

You need to get some truth dear sir. What is a corporation? Ah, an entity owned by shareholders. Shareholders are the "owners" the corporation. Ergo, the owners are paying the property tax. You can play with words all day long if you want, I will even give you a quarter, however, the reality is a corporation is owned by people. When a corporation pays too much in taxes, the profits are decreased, causing a ripple effect in the corp, namely value. Thus, the owners of that corp are in fact "paying" the tax. You know that corps have to file ficticious names don't you?

As to whether the corp can offord this, is a socialistic issue. What you are positing is that since they make lots of money, they should pay the taxes willingly, regardless of the legality of the taxes, because, hey, they can afford it and thus wealth is distributed.

Are you a social person? Do you get out much? Or are you just a socialist?

 

[Itsthetruth]

As to whether the corp can offord this, is a socialistic issue. What you are positing is that since they make lots of money, they should pay the taxes willingly, regardless of the legality of the taxes, because, hey, they can afford it and thus wealth is distributed.

Congrats! That is the best argument I have read yet in defense of corporate tax evasion! Does it also apply to individuals such as yourself or are you willing to cover corporate tax dodges?

So I'm looking for more good ideas on how we can "save" the oil companies more money and increase their profits up to a reasonable level ..... say 100 billion or so. Any suggestions on how that great goal might be accomplished .... besides increasing the gas price at the pump?

 

[5stringJeff]

I have a few other real good ideas, besides tax evasion, on how big oil can increase their profits.

Jack up the price of gasoline to $5.00 a gallon.

Just refuse to pay any corporate taxes. Period. Not a penny for taxes! Nothing wrong with corporate tax evasion at all.

Cut the pay of all oil company workers (except executives) to about $6.00 an hour. Oil company tycoons should have their pay increased to about a million bucks an hour. They work very hard.

Now that's the ticket! What ideas would you like to share on how "we" can increase oil company profits to maybe 50 billion bucks a year? And no taxes!

If you're an oil company executive let me apologize. I really didn't mean to spoil your scam. If you're a oil company attorney, how much of those unpaid oil company taxes do you expect to pocket if the tax dodge is successful?

Here's a lesson in capitalism for you: the primary goal of any business is to maximize profits for its owners. In the case of these oil companies, they are publicly owned; the stockholders are the ones who profit. Therefore, the board of directors acts in a manner to maximize the profits of the shareholders. Part of maximizing profits is minimizing the company's tax bill. So I don't blame these companies for trying this at all. And, frankly, freeandfun is right on when he talks about the absolute ripoffs that property tax assessments can be.

 

[5stringJeff]

Congrats! That is the best argument I have read yet in defense of corporate tax evasion! Does it also apply to individuals such as yourself or are you willing to cover corporate tax dodges?

So I'm looking for more good ideas on how we can "save" the oil companies more money and increase their profits up to a reasonable level ..... say 100 billion or so. Any suggestions on how that great goal might be accomplished .... besides increasing the gas price at the pump?

I don't know... but I'm glad that my mutual funds hold a good deal of oil stock!

 

[Avatar4321]

Congrats! That is the best argument I have read yet in defense of corporate tax evasion! Does it also apply to individuals such as yourself or are you willing to cover corporate tax dodges?

So I'm looking for more good ideas on how we can "save" the oil companies more money and increase their profits up to a reasonable level ..... say 100 billion or so. Any suggestions on how that great goal might be accomplished .... besides increasing the gas price at the pump?

You have no right to money you dont earn. Let the companies keep the money they work for and get off your ass and make your own.

 

[freeandfun1]

He totally ignored (surprise, surprise) my statement about how the argument probably has more to do with the amount assessed than the actual paying of the taxes.

So isthe, if you make $50K a year and your neighbor makes $20K a year, yet your neighbor has prime property that can be used for anything while you have a contaminated old oil factory site, should you, just because you make $50K compared to $20K have to pay more in property taxes? Your neighbor's land might be worth $500K while your land is worth $200K who should pay more in taxes? The one that owns land valued at a higher rate or the guy that makes the most money?

More than likely, like I said, the oil company is being charged an exhorbinant amount for the land. So much they refuse to pay. So what. Do you know how many hospitals refuse to pay property taxes? Lots. Why? Cuz the government has gone crazy charging corporations higher property tax rates when they know the corporation cannot easily move. They are taking advantage of the corporation. Nothing is fair about it. I guarantee it.

Now, go play in the highway please!

 

[Itsthetruth]

I don't know... but I'm glad that my mutual funds hold a good deal of oil stock!

Really. So I guess we should blame you for high gas prices. I wonder how long you have been ripping me and the rest of the public off.

So big time Wall Street tycoon, which oil company do you own and control if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Avatar4321]

Really. So I guess we should blame you for high gas prices. I wonder how long you have been ripping me and the rest of the public off.

So big time Wall Street tycoon, which oil company do you own and control if you don't mind me asking?

Wait a minute. weren't you the one who was complaining recently about drilling in Anwar? Aren't you the one here who is complaining about oil companies wanting a tax cut? You do realize that they don't pay for their taxes. the Consumers pay for their taxes because they pass the cost along to the people who have to buy the oil.

If you have a problem with high gas prices then stop charging $.50 a galloon in taxes and stop b****ing when we actually try to increase the supply of oil to decrease our dependence on the middle east oil cartel.

 

[Itsthetruth]

Wait a minute. weren't you the one who was complaining recently about drilling in Anwar? Aren't you the one here who is complaining about oil companies wanting a tax cut? You do realize that they don't pay for their taxes. the Consumers pay for their taxes because they pass the cost along to the people who have to buy the oil.

If you have a problem with high gas prices then stop charging $.50 a galloon in taxes and stop b****ing when we actually try to increase the supply of oil to decrease our dependence on the middle east oil cartel.

Are you also a big Wall Street oil tycoon? I didn't realize we had so many oil tycoons or apologists for them here.

I'm sorry that you support tax evasion by oil companies and I assume all other fat cats who are screwing the American public. Well, someone has to defend them and it might as well be you.

If the federal gas tax is eliminated can we count on the oil companies to build and maintain our roads or will you be paying for that out of your own pocket?

Come now. You certainly can do better than that. I expect great things from you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Are you also a big Wall Street oil tycoon? I didn't realize we had so many oil tycoons or apologists for them here.

I'm sorry that you support tax evasion by oil companies and I assume all other fat cats who are screwing the American public. Well, someone has to defend them and it might as well be you.

If the federal gas tax is eliminated can we count on the oil companies to build and maintain our roads or will you be paying for that out of your own pocket?

Come now. You certainly can do better than that. I expect great things from you.

Dude you are the one complaining about the prices. Make up your mind. you either want lower prices. or you want higher taxes. Either way its the consumers who end up paying for it all.

BTW people dont get rich by screwing the public. they get rich by giving the public what they want and need. Businesses arent evil.

Oh and if you are so concerned about the roads why dont you help us cut some things from the budget we dont really need, make our current expenditures more efficient and help us focus the government spending on the only things that it's supposed to spend money on. regulating Interestate commerce and building up our military to defend ourselves.

 

[Itsthetruth]

BTW people dont get rich by screwing the public. they get rich by giving the public what they want and need. Businesses arent evil.

Of course. Kenneth Lay is one good example of that. I can name many more, but not the thousands of corporate crooks who have not been caught or who have bought off politicians and government bureaucrats to avoid prosecution.

And certainly the big oil companies are not evil. They love us. And they love our money even more!

If you don't think many people get rich by screwing the public you don't know very much about how "free enterprise" works in real life at all! You seem to have a nice fairy tale understanding about this economic system. You'll never become a real life Wall Street tycoon if you don't wake up and smell the coffee!

Your attitude reminds me somewhat of what were called the "House negroes" in the old South during slavery. You had the "field negroes" who worked in the fields and the "house negroes" who tended to the Masters needs in the mansion. The 'house negroes" were the ones who loved their "Master". When the Master was feeling ill, they felt ill. When the Master was sad, they were sad. When the Masters mansion burned down they cried " our house has burned down". And when the Master tired of his "house negroes" they were put out in the fields to work the cotton just like the "field negroes". They were no different, but they were dumb and actually thought the Master cared for them and about them. They learned the hard way that the Master cared for none of "his negroes", field or house ones.

You too may learn about your real position in this society ..... the hard way.

 

[Avatar4321]

Of course. Kenneth Lay is one good example of that. I can name many more, but not the thousands of corporate crooks who have not been caught or who have bought off politicians and government bureaucrats to avoid prosecution.

And certainly the big oil companies are not evil. They love us. And they love our money even more!

If you don't think many people get rich by screwing the public you don't know very much about how "free enterprise" works in real life at all! You seem to have a nice fairy tale understanding about this economic system. You'll never become a real life Wall Street tycoon if you don't wake up and smell the coffee!

Your attitude reminds me somewhat of what were called the "House negroes" in the old South during slavery. You had the "field negroes" who worked in the fields and the "house negroes" who tended to the Masters needs in the mansion. The 'house negroes" were the ones who loved their "Master". When the Master was feeling ill, they felt ill. When the Master was sad, they were sad. When the Masters mansion burned down they cried " our house has burned down". And when the Master tired of his "house negroes" they were put out in the fields to work the cotton just like the "field negroes". They were no different, but they were dumb and actually thought the Master cared for them and about them. They learned the hard way that the Master cared for none of "his negroes", field or house ones.

You too may learn about your real position in this society ..... the hard way.

Look, if i wanted to listen to racist tripe i would listen to WJ.

Kenneth Lay is hardly going to be rich when he is in jail and the law suits are finished with him. You don't make money by screwing people over because if you try it that way you get yourselves screwed. You reap what you sow. if you want to earn money you do it by providing a service to others that you can uniquely give to the world. That doesn't make you evil.

If you hate the oil companies so badly why dont you go out to the woods and live off the land. no electricity, car, etc. just live your ideal life.