Big Business, Corporate Profits, and the Minimum Wage

[Luddly Neddite]

http://nelp.3cdn.net/24befb45b36b626a7a_v2m6iirxb.pdf

Rs are against education and want to end minimum wage. If the right is successful, Newt will get his way - kids will be working as janitors in the schools that should be educating them.

What the R isn't talking about is that all wages would fall proportionately. Well, except for Mittens' cronies, that is.

Oh well, what the heck - Rick Perry says its working fine in Texasss and Mittens, Kochs, Waltons (most of their merchandise is from China), Adelson (casinos in China and gives MILLIONS to the R) says we can always send the hard jobs to other countries.

Rs, rw's have no integrity.

 

[Intense]

Yeah? Where are all of the Democrats when it comes to running businesses. Put up or shut up, Idiot.

 

[Widdekind]

Big Business, Corporate Profits, and the Minimum Wage

workers earning at or near the minimum wage are seeing the real value of their paychecks diminish steadily over time, as the cost of living increases while their wages remain stagnant. After nearly half a century of neglect, today’s federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour is decades out of date. In terms of purchasing power, its value is 30 percent lower today than it was in 1968.

Many minimum-wage workers are teenagers. Most people do not work minimum-wage jobs for their whole lives. They work through minimum wage jobs, building job skills, and moving on. Minimum wage jobs "lower the employment ladder" down "to the streets", and allow people to work their way out of nothing (no income), to something (some income).

The minimum wage today is about as high as ever (since enacted in 1938). Almost every increase in the US Federal minimum wage has coincided with a spike in unemployment, and a recession (link) -- "raising the employment ladder up out of reach of the streets" and leaving millions of Americans with nothing (no income).

Big Businesses have recovered from the recession; are profitable:

the majority of America’s lowest‐paid workers are employed by large corporations, not small businesses, and that most of the largest low‐wage employers have recovered from the recession... the majority of low‐wage workers are employed by large corporations, most of which are enjoying strong profits

and are hiring hundreds of thousands of people (link). Because businesses are profitable, so they are hiring.

profitable => hiring​

Hiking minimum wages would only increase their costs, lower their profitability, and force them to fire current workers, and forgo hiring new workers. Those who advocate raising the minimum wage, are advocating firing low-paid people, and leaving them with nothing (except Public dole). Why would that garner votes? (Most people don't earn minimum wage, anyway.)

 

[eflatminor]

http://nelp.3cdn.net/24befb45b36b626a7a_v2m6iirxb.pdf

Rs are against education

Against education? Or against the complete and utter failure that is the government/union monopoly on affordable education? Big difference.

and want to end minimum wage.

Minimum wage is most hurtful to the elderly, the uneducated poor, and our youngest citizens hoping for some experience and a few bucks. How could you be so evil as to prevent our most vulnerable from working? Sick, just sick.

If the right is successful, Newt will get his way - kids will be working as janitors in the schools that should be educating them.

I worked in the kitchen at my grade school during recesses. In return I got lunch and good work experience. Not a damn thing wrong with that.

What the R isn't talking about is that all wages would fall proportionately.

Link? Proof of any kind? I call bullshit.

Oh well, what the heck - Rick Perry says its working fine in Texasss and Mittens, Kochs, Waltons (most of their merchandise is from China), Adelson (casinos in China and gives MILLIONS to the R) says we can always send the hard jobs to other countries.

Link? Better yet, tissue?

Rs, rw's have no integrity

Ha! Pot, kettle, I see you've met.

 

[tjvh]

People who oppose raising pay on Minimum wage jobs, and NOT allowing others to make those menial jobs a career choice and who are not willing to offset the Minimum wage increase by paying higher prices for things like Happy Meals are just plain MEAN. You don't like it? Change your work ethics and keep your hands off my wallet.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If one is working for minimum wage for his entire life it's no one's fault but his.

 

[Widdekind]

minimum wage eliminates millions of jobs

From 2007-2009, the US Federal minimum wage increased by two dollars (per hour); and the unemployment rate, amongst teenagers, increased by over 10% (link). In absolute terms, the unemployment level increased by nearly a half million (link). Inexpertly, increasing the minimum wage one dollar (per hour) eliminates a quarter million jobs. If so, then eliminating the minimum wage would allow (authorize the creation of) nearly two million (low-paying) jobs (for teenagers alone).

questioning Reverend Jesse Jackson's recommendation (raise the minimum wage to $10 per hour)

If doing something a little has some effect, then doing the same thing allot has more of the same effect. So, imagine raising the minimum wage to $1000 (per hour); everybody loses their jobs. Imagine raising the minimum wage to $100 (per hour); almost everybody loses their jobs, a few are saved. Increasing the minimum wage allot eliminates many jobs. Increasing the minimum wage a little eliminates some jobs. And conversely, decreasing the minimum wage regenerates jobs.

If raising the minimum wage to $10 (per hour) actually is good; then why not raise the minimum wage to $100 (per hour); or to $1000 (per hour); or even more?

 

[Widdekind]

The US Federal minimum wage was increased on April Fools Day 1990; the US economy officially entered a recession, within two months (June 1990). The minimum wage was raised again, on April Fools Day 1991; unemployment rates did not begin decreasing, until 1992.

U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Minimum Wage

 

[Widdekind]

Up to 60% of low-income households, in the US, are "severely burdened" by housing costs (rents & interest payments). Low-income households with children pay half as much for food, clothes, and healthcare. Low-income households are often minorities, the same demographic who often (would) work low-pay jobs. Eliminating minimum wages would regenerate millions of outlawed jobs, benefiting low-income households; and those having (teenage) children.

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rortybomb/rental-income-percentage-gdp-too-damn-high-and-households-severely-burdened-housing-costs

 

[editec]

FEDERAL minimum wages laws only effect corporations that do business in more than one state.

So no mom and pop store is beholden to that law.

the STATES oftem impose their own minimum wages laws.

Do those of us oppossed to FEDERAL minimum wages laws ALSO object to STATE Minimum wage laws?

Or do you believe that NO GOVERNMENT has such a right?

 

[Widdekind]

According to economist Mike Konczal:

"It is not the skills of the workforce that limit our ability to reduce unemployment, but the limited number of job openings"

Eliminating minimum wages would re-legalize millions of low-pay jobs, re-generating millions of job openings, which could be filled by available & qualified workers. What government, representing its public society, would want to artificially criminalize millions of jobs, artificially prohibiting millions of Americans, from finding gainful employment? (Given that only a few percent of the population would work those low-pay jobs, any democratic vote on minimum wages, passed by a majority of the population, against a (tiny) minority, would represent a "tyranny of the majority".)

 

[eflatminor]

Do those of us oppossed to FEDERAL minimum wages laws ALSO object to STATE Minimum wage laws?

Or do you believe that NO GOVERNMENT has such a right?

Minimum wage laws are a really bad idea no matter what government implements them. They hurt the most vulnerable among us.

 

[Widdekind]

If Pres. Obama eliminated the (Federal) minimum wage (by executive order), then millions of low-pay jobs would be de-prohibited, re-legalized, and re-generated, in the short-term (years). Perhaps hundreds of thousands of jobs would be re-generated, in the immediate-term (months). Many of those jobs would be amongst minorities & teenagers. (Perhaps in districts & demographics already voting Democratic.)

 

[eflatminor]

If Pres. Obama eliminated the (Federal) minimum wage (by executive order), then millions of low-pay jobs would be de-prohibited, re-legalized, and re-generated, in the short-term (years). Perhaps hundreds of thousands of jobs would be re-generated, in the immediate-term (months). Many of those jobs would be amongst minorities & teenagers. (Perhaps in districts & demographics already voting Democratic.)

All true. On the other hand, unions would shit a brick and we know damn well there's no way the President is going to bite the hand that feeds him. Minorities and teenagers do not make significant campaign contributions.

 

[Widdekind]

Minorities and teenagers do not make significant campaign contributions.

in part because of minimum wage laws, that criminalize the jobs (and incomes), that they would have had. Prohibition of income pushes people into poverty (and keeps them there).

 

[Supposn]

Big Business, Corporate Profits, and the Minimum Wage.........................................Many minimum-wage workers are teenagers. Most people do not work minimum-wage jobs for their whole lives. They work through minimum wage jobs, building job skills, and moving on. Minimum wage jobs "lower the employment ladder" down "to the streets", and allow people to work their way out of nothing (no income), to something (some income)................

Widdekind, I posted your paragraaph within the topic of “Consequences of repealing minimum wage rates”. (message #10).

I argued the contrary; you’ve missed the point. The additional entry level jobs created due to elimination of our legal minimum wage rate would not compensate for the great increase of national poverty due to repealing the minimum rate.

That’s why I ‘m a proponent of an annually cost of living adjusted minimum wage rate similar to the annually COLA’d Social Security benefits.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[eflatminor]

The additional entry level jobs created due to elimination of our legal minimum wage rate would not compensate for the great increase of national policy due to repealing the minimum rate.

What is the "great increase of national policy"?

 

[Supposn]

The additional entry level jobs created due to elimination of our legal minimum wage rate would not compensate for the great increase of national policy due to repealing the minimum rate.

What is the "great increase of national policy"?[/QUOT
My error; it should be "national poverty".

 

[eflatminor]

The additional entry level jobs created due to elimination of our legal minimum wage rate would not compensate for the great increase of national policy due to repealing the minimum rate.

What is the "great increase of national policy"?[/QUOT
My error; it should be "national poverty".

Ah, in that case, I disagree strongly. Do you have any evidence that poverty would increase in lieu of a federally mandated minimum wage?

Logic suggests that not only would many more people get jobs, the first step required in getting a good, well paying job, but those already employed would not see a decrease in their pay. Hiring and training new employees is expensive and disruptive to companies.

Further, only 1.5% of workers currently earn minimum wage, and that includes those that make tips, which puts many of them above minimum wage.

Unless you can provide some evidence in support of your claim, I'm going to have to disagree. Eliminating the minimum wage would not cause any increase in national poverty, certainly not a "great" increase. There just aren't enough people earning that little.

In fact, by allowing for many more young, elderly and uneducated workers to get their first job, I would argue that eliminating the minimum wage would decrease poverty in the US.

Lastly, there's the moral argument. Who are you to dictate what a man is willing to work for? When I was very young and willing to work for $2 an hour, which I did, I gained real work experience, something for my resume, and a little pocket money. Why should you be able to deny me that experience?

 

[Supposn]

Ah, in that case, I disagree strongly. Do you have any evidence that poverty would increase in lieu of a federally mandated minimum wage?

Eflatminor, you’re requesting “proof” of a political concept as you would ask fort proof a mathematical concept.

Mathematics is not a science but rather a philosophy, (i.e. a system of thought that’s acceptable among those that employ its concepts. It is the most perfectly precise of all philosophies because if a single exception to a mathematical rule is encountered, that exception is not “rationalized” away but rather the concept is no longer considered as a “rule”. You cannot “prove” 2 + 2 = 4 unless you accept the philosophy of mathematics as a “proof”.

Politics is among the social studies which are all more subjective and less objective than the empirical sciences. You can try to prove a physics or chemistry postulates. It’s more difficult, (if not possibly impossible) to prove sociology or political postulates. What’ done is logically arguing the “cases”. If you believe otherwise, can you prove 2 + 2 = 4?
//////////////////////////////////////////

Discussing the logical justification of the legal minimum wage rate, I ask if you agree that any affect of the minimums’ rate upon a task’s wage rate will be inversely related to the difference between the purchasing power of the minimum wage rate and the job’ rate? It’s contended the minimum wage rate has an effect upon ALL job rates.

Respectfully, Supposn