Biden: Wealthy Americans Must Pay More Taxes to Show Patriotism

[Navy1960]

This is not socialism it's common sense. It just doesn't make sense to tax the middle class but not the rich. the rich can afford to pay higher taxes it doesn't hurt them at all. but this country cannot keep on depending on the middle class to keep on paying taxes. the rich have to start picking up the tab as well

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes (Down from 2000 figure: 56.47%). The top 10% pay 64.89% (Down from 2000 figure: 67.33%). The top 25% pay 82.9% (Down from 2000 figure: 84.01%). The top 50% pay 96.03% (Down from 2000 figure: 96.09%). The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of all income taxes. (*IRS.gov)

So in essence , what the Obama plan is says is that we need to take from the people who are already paying the most taxes so that those that are not paying them so we can have more social programs and a tax break? Let's see, I know I have been down this road more than once, but, when someone is taxed in a business, that tax is passed on to the consumer. For example, you ask how are taxes going to go up for the middle class? It's actually very simple. Obama places a "windfall profit tax on oil" , that tax will go directly to the price of gas at the pump causing the price of gas to increase by the same percentage as the tax hike. So you the consumer are paying for it, as you will be in increased costs for food, and others goods and services that depend on fuel. The same can be said for every so called "patriotic" tax on corporations. The other intresting and short sighted thing thats rarely talked about here, is the fact that these companies will compensate in other ways as well. You don't like your jobs being outsourced for cheaper workers offshore? Well this is one sure way to give a company the incentive to move more jobs offshore, increase the cost of doing business in the United States with tax increases. The primary reason that Obama wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is not because he has some deep feeling about you, it's because he has no way to pay for the untold billions of dollars in new social programs he plans to implements unless he does increase taxes. With the economy in bad condition , the proposal to increase taxes on business and top wage earners that already pay over 70% of those taxes anyway, is very short sighted and extremely dangerous for this country.

 

[HoleInTheVoid]

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes (Down from 2000 figure: 56.47%). The top 10% pay 64.89% (Down from 2000 figure: 67.33%). The top 25% pay 82.9% (Down from 2000 figure: 84.01%). The top 50% pay 96.03% (Down from 2000 figure: 96.09%). The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of all income taxes. (*IRS.gov)

So in essence , what the Obama plan is says is that we need to take from the people who are already paying the most taxes so that those that are not paying them so we can have more social programs and a tax break? Let's see, I know I have been down this road more than once, but, when someone is taxed in a business, that tax is passed on to the consumer. For example, you ask how are taxes going to go up for the middle class? It's actually very simple. Obama places a "windfall profit tax on oil" , that tax will go directly to the price of gas at the pump causing the price of gas to increase by the same percentage as the tax hike. So you the consumer are paying for it, as you will be in increased costs for food, and others goods and services that depend on fuel. The same can be said for every so called "patriotic" tax on corporations. The other intresting and short sighted thing thats rarely talked about here, is the fact that these companies will compensate in other ways as well. You don't like your jobs being outsourced for cheaper workers offshore? Well this is one sure way to give a company the incentive to move more jobs offshore, increase the cost of doing business in the United States with tax increases. The primary reason that Obama wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is not because he has some deep feeling about you, it's because he has no way to pay for the untold billions of dollars in new social programs he plans to implements unless he does increase taxes. With the economy in bad condition , the proposal to increase taxes on business and top wage earners that already pay over 70% of those taxes anyway, is very short sighted and extremely dangerous for this country.

Or put succinctly: companies don't pay taxes, they collect them.

 

[Navy1960]

Or put succinctly: companies don't pay taxes, they collect them.

Well the bottom line is this a tax increase in a company meant to aquire funding for some social program is going to be paid by you and me. The check might be written by the company thats taxed. but we pay the taxes and all those wonderful increases. I know this, in my business, any tax increase I get, is automatically passed on to my customers in the form of higher service fee's, or product costs. So I can't imagine in some corporate board room a bunch of executives sitting around going lets take one for the gipper.

 

[jschuck12001]

Top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes (Down from 2000 figure: 56.47%). The top 10% pay 64.89% (Down from 2000 figure: 67.33%). The top 25% pay 82.9% (Down from 2000 figure: 84.01%). The top 50% pay 96.03% (Down from 2000 figure: 96.09%). The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of all income taxes. (*IRS.gov)

So in essence , what the Obama plan is says is that we need to take from the people who are already paying the most taxes so that those that are not paying them so we can have more social programs and a tax break? Let's see, I know I have been down this road more than once, but, when someone is taxed in a business, that tax is passed on to the consumer. For example, you ask how are taxes going to go up for the middle class? It's actually very simple. Obama places a "windfall profit tax on oil" , that tax will go directly to the price of gas at the pump causing the price of gas to increase by the same percentage as the tax hike. So you the consumer are paying for it, as you will be in increased costs for food, and others goods and services that depend on fuel. The same can be said for every so called "patriotic" tax on corporations. The other intresting and short sighted thing thats rarely talked about here, is the fact that these companies will compensate in other ways as well. You don't like your jobs being outsourced for cheaper workers offshore? Well this is one sure way to give a company the incentive to move more jobs offshore, increase the cost of doing business in the United States with tax increases. The primary reason that Obama wants to increase taxes on the wealthy is not because he has some deep feeling about you, it's because he has no way to pay for the untold billions of dollars in new social programs he plans to implements unless he does increase taxes. With the economy in bad condition , the proposal to increase taxes on business and top wage earners that already pay over 70% of those taxes anyway, is very short sighted and extremely dangerous for this country.

Some good points but we cant keep letting corporate america stranglehold us and also the Oil industry. See people just dont believe that we can create new energy sources(which will create new jobs) which will lower the demand for oil therefore placing a stanglehold on the oil companies instead of us. The bottom line is I would rather the very rich pay for it than me. Maybe thats selfish but taxing people who make that much money will not hurt them near as much as not taxing them and having no way to pay for new programs that we need anyway. The way were are doing things now isnt working. Can anyone disagree with that.

 

[Navy1960]

Some good points but we cant keep letting corporate america stranglehold us and also the Oil industry. See people just dont believe that we can create new energy sources(which will create new jobs) which will lower the demand for oil therefore placing a stanglehold on the oil companies instead of us. The bottom line is I would rather the very rich pay for it than me. Maybe thats selfish but taxing people who make that much money will not hurt them near as much as not taxing them and having no way to pay for new programs that we need anyway. The way were are doing things now isnt working. Can anyone disagree with that.

You know though jschuck, while I agree someone that is wealthy tends to be better able to pay taxes than someone who is not. Let me cite you an Obama example of wealthy. A man who owns his own "Supershuttle" Van that gives people rides to and from the airport. He leases the Van from the corporation or buys it, but he is the franchisee. So, after paying the lease payments, and the gas, and his percentage for having the name on the side of the Van that profit is his. However in a years period of time his gross receipts are over 260,000.00 Guess what? Even though he is a small business owner and may get a small tax cut. he is considered wealthy under the Obama tax plan. So what goes up for him? Gas, insurance, and his net profits go down. So how then is taxing the wealthy or for that matter good for the economy? You want to put people to work , rather than giving lip service to "Apollo like " programs actually do one. Develop Nuclear, bio-fuels, wind , and hydro plants under a real govt. funded construction program. Have you ever seen how many people just one road building project employs? I am one that believes that we need to do EVERYTHING we can to get away from being dependant on China for our debt, and the middle east for our energy. We as a nation are smart enough to do this and I think if some were willing to just compromise just a little then we can do fairly quickly. If you have never had the chance to read the entire energy plan put forth by T-Boone Pickens , please do it, it's brilliant I think .

 

[jschuck12001]

You know though jschuck, while I agree someone that is wealthy tends to be better able to pay taxes than someone who is not. Let me cite you an Obama example of wealthy. A man who owns his own "Supershuttle" Van that gives people rides to and from the airport. He leases the Van from the corporation or buys it, but he is the franchisee. So, after paying the lease payments, and the gas, and his percentage for having the name on the side of the Van that profit is his. However in a years period of time his gross receipts are over 260,000.00 Guess what? Even though he is a small business owner and may get a small tax cut. he is considered wealthy under the Obama tax plan. So what goes up for him? Gas, insurance, and his net profits go down. So how then is taxing the wealthy or for that matter good for the economy? You want to put people to work , rather than giving lip service to "Apollo like " programs actually do one. Develop Nuclear, bio-fuels, wind , and hydro plants under a real govt. funded construction program. Have you ever seen how many people just one road building project employs? I am one that believes that we need to do EVERYTHING we can to get away from being dependant on China for our debt, and the middle east for our energy. We as a nation are smart enough to do this and I think if some were willing to just compromise just a little then we can do fairly quickly. If you have never had the chance to read the entire energy plan put forth by T-Boone Pickens , please do it, it's brilliant I think .

Well then the Republicans need to come up with a plan other than "drill baby drill" I have read T-boone pickens plan and it does sound great and you know that Obama has met with him. He is a money man that can afford to invest in green jobs so I wouldnt be surprised if Obama gets elected that they work together.

 

[Jon]

Well then the Republicans need to come up with a plan other than "drill baby drill" I have read T-boone pickens plan and it does sound great and you know that Obama has met with him. He is a money man that can afford to invest in green jobs so I wouldnt be surprised if Obama gets elected that they work together.

If you thin "drill baby drill" is their plan, you know nothing. Drilling is an immediate solution to an immediate problem. We can't make ourselves less dependent on oil by cutting it off immediately. It has to be a gradual process. We have to HAVE oil to survive on while we develop cleaner, safer, cheaper, renewable energies. Right now, our oil comes from places that harbor terrorist cells. We're funding the very people who are blowing us up. We need to drill the resources we have so that we can invest our funds in researching other means of energy.

People bitch about gas prices but then they don't want us to drill our own energy sources. How's that for counterintuitive?

 

[HoleInTheVoid]

Well then the Republicans need to come up with a plan other than "drill baby drill" I have read T-boone pickens plan and it does sound great and you know that Obama has met with him. He is a money man that can afford to invest in green jobs so I wouldnt be surprised if Obama gets elected that they work together.

Alas, Mr Pickens is looking for billions in gov't subsidies but even he admits alternatives are to work in tandem with--not as substitutes for--oil drilling.

Until those new techs come on line only scientists get the jobs, the "little guy" isn't going to see anything for a decade or better. Yet any able-bodied soul can walk into the oilfield industry and start work by the following week.

 

[jschuck12001]

If you thin "drill baby drill" is their plan, you know nothing. Drilling is an immediate solution to an immediate problem. We can't make ourselves less dependent on oil by cutting it off immediately. It has to be a gradual process. We have to HAVE oil to survive on while we develop cleaner, safer, cheaper, renewable energies. Right now, our oil comes from places that harbor terrorist cells. We're funding the very people who are blowing us up. We need to drill the resources we have so that we can invest our funds in researching other means of energy.

People bitch about gas prices but then they don't want us to drill our own energy sources. How's that for counterintuitive?

Oh No, its you again, Look, every economist out there has said that drilling in the US will do nothing for gas prices for at least 10 years. My point was yes, ok, lets drill some but that shouldnt be the basis of how we will fix the problem and its just politics because sadly there are people like you who think once we tap the well the prices will shoot down and thats a joke. But hey it could give a boost to the fishing industry because Mccain said yesterday that "the fish love the oil rigs"

 

[jschuck12001]

Alas, Mr Pickens is looking for billions in gov't subsidies but even he admits alternatives are to work in tandem with--not as substitutes for--oil drilling.

Until those new techs come on line only scientists get the jobs, the "little guy" isn't going to see anything for a decade or better. Yet any able-bodied soul can walk into the oilfield industry and start work by the following week.

Are you saying that green jobs wont produce jobs for blue collar workers? Thats crazy

 

[Navy1960]

Alas, Mr Pickens is looking for billions in gov't subsidies but even he admits alternatives are to work in tandem with--not as substitutes for--oil drilling.

Until those new techs come on line only scientists get the jobs, the "little guy" isn't going to see anything for a decade or better. Yet any able-bodied soul can walk into the oilfield industry and start work by the following week.

exacty, His plan actually advocates using EVERY resource to build a bridge to those green technologies we have, and a conversion to "CNG" for the automotive industry in the short term. What I am saying , here is that, if those resources are cut off, because of "special intrests" then any plan to get those green jobs going is a pipe dream. and a plan to tax the wealthy to pay for that plan is going to do nothing but cause the economy to slow down and make this country more and more dependant on foreign sources.

 

[Care4all]

You know though jschuck, while I agree someone that is wealthy tends to be better able to pay taxes than someone who is not. Let me cite you an Obama example of wealthy. A man who owns his own "Supershuttle" Van that gives people rides to and from the airport. He leases the Van from the corporation or buys it, but he is the franchisee. So, after paying the lease payments, and the gas, and his percentage for having the name on the side of the Van that profit is his. However in a years period of time his gross receipts are over 260,000.00 Guess what? Even though he is a small business owner and may get a small tax cut. he is considered wealthy under the Obama tax plan. So what goes up for him? Gas, insurance, and his net profits go down. So how then is taxing the wealthy or for that matter good for the economy? You want to put people to work , rather than giving lip service to "Apollo like " programs actually do one. Develop Nuclear, bio-fuels, wind , and hydro plants under a real govt. funded construction program. Have you ever seen how many people just one road building project employs? I am one that believes that we need to do EVERYTHING we can to get away from being dependant on China for our debt, and the middle east for our energy. We as a nation are smart enough to do this and I think if some were willing to just compromise just a little then we can do fairly quickly. If you have never had the chance to read the entire energy plan put forth by T-Boone Pickens , please do it, it's brilliant I think .

i don't think you are right on that Navy.... what the man NETS is what he will be taxed on and NEVER what he gross's....this is how our income taxes and corporate taxes work.... and as a small business, he gets to deduct ALL of his expense and investments BEFORE he is taxed.

 

[Jon]

My point was yes, ok, lets drill some but that shouldnt be the basis of how we will fix the problem.

Which is exactly McCain's stance. Remember, he's for an "all of the above" strategy on the energy crisis. He'll do anything and everything until we figure out what works best. When I said "immediate solution to an immediate problem" I wasn't referring to prices dropping like rain, I was referring to the fact that one of our goals is to make ourselves less dependent on foreign oil, and the best solution to that problem is to drill our own. Meanwhile, begin researching and implementing OTHER energy sources. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[jschuck12001]

This is not socialism it's common sense. It just doesn't make sense to tax the middle class but not the rich. the rich can afford to pay higher taxes it doesn't hurt them at all. but this country cannot keep on depending on the middle class to keep on paying taxes. the rich have to start picking up the tab as well

Which is exactly McCain's stance. Remember, he's for an "all of the above" strategy on the energy crisis. He'll do anything and everything until we figure out what works best. When I said "immediate solution to an immediate problem" I wasn't referring to prices dropping like rain, I was referring to the fact that one of our goals is to make ourselves less dependent on foreign oil, and the best solution to that problem is to drill our own. Meanwhile, begin researching and implementing OTHER energy sources. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

"Figure out what works best", this is bullshit. You would think a guy who has been in congress for 24 years and talks about his experience would know what works best. He has jumped on the Obama bandwagon from everything to a energy plan to his newly formed message of "change". I dont think he has any idea's of his own.

 

[Navy1960]

i don't think you are right on that Navy.... what the man NETS is what he will be taxed on and NEVER what he gross's....this is how our income taxes and corporate taxes work.... and as a small business, he gets to deduct ALL of his expense and investments BEFORE he is taxed.

Well I don't know about you, but i'm taxed on my gross income not my net. I want to move to that state. If I gross 500,121.00 in total reciepts, thats what I am taxed on. However, my point on the Obama plan is actually quite simple. I don't think I have heard him say he would raise Social Security taxes as that would be like standing in front of a podium at a senior citizens center and saying I hate all you old farts. *lol* What I do believe is that his tax plan will cause , expenses to rise, for business, in the form of operating costs, and those taxes and cost will be passed on to the consumer. A good example would be, you tax me 5% more on the gas I provide. The very next day, you the consumer are going to pay, guess what 5% more for your gas. So really ? who is paying the tax me or you? See what I mean? All I'm doing is writing the check, so basically the plan accomplishes nothing but slowing down an already slow economy.

 

[jschuck12001]

Well I don't know about you, but i'm taxed on my gross income not my net. I want to move to that state. If I gross 500,121.00 in total reciepts, thats what I am taxed on. However, my point on the Obama plan is actually quite simple. I don't think I have heard him say he would raise Social Security taxes as that would be like standing in front of a podium at a senior citizens center and saying I hate all you old farts. *lol* What I do believe is that his tax plan will cause , expenses to rise, for business, in the form of operating costs, and those taxes and cost will be passed on to the consumer. A good example would be, you tax me 5% more on the gas I provide. The very next day, you the consumer are going to pay, guess what 5% more for your gas. So really ? who is paying the tax me or you? See what I mean? All I'm doing is writing the check, so basically the plan accomplishes nothing but slowing down an already slow economy.

navy, you pay taxes on Gross minus deductions and this is your net. If you look at a standard schedule C net profit and loss which is what most Sole Proprietors use to file you will see that line 31 is what they are showing as income to the IRS and this is the amount after deductions.Self employed folks write off as much as they can so they dont pay as much taxes but it hurts them when they go for financing because banks use the net after deductions.

 

[Care4all]

Well I don't know about you, but i'm taxed on my gross income not my net. I want to move to that state. If I gross 500,121.00 in total reciepts, thats what I am taxed on. However, my point on the Obama plan is actually quite simple. I don't think I have heard him say he would raise Social Security taxes as that would be like standing in front of a podium at a senior citizens center and saying I hate all you old farts. *lol* What I do believe is that his tax plan will cause , expenses to rise, for business, in the form of operating costs, and those taxes and cost will be passed on to the consumer. A good example would be, you tax me 5% more on the gas I provide. The very next day, you the consumer are going to pay, guess what 5% more for your gas. So really ? who is paying the tax me or you? See what I mean? All I'm doing is writing the check, so basically the plan accomplishes nothing but slowing down an already slow economy.

you are taxed on your net revenue, not your gross.... your net revenue is after all of your deductions are taken/your company's expences....

yes, consumers would pay for your tax hike, or a portion of it if the market couldn't bear the higher price, you might split it with your consumer till the market can bear the higher retail by itself....

BUT that is only fair imo.....the consumer that is buying your product is the one that should share in the tax burden......NOT the people who don't buy your product at all!!!

 

[Jon]

you are taxed on your net revenue, not your gross.... your net revenue is after all of your deductions are taken/your company's expences....

yes, consumers would pay for your tax hike, or a portion of it if the market couldn't bear the higher price, you might split it with your consumer till the market can bear the higher retail by itself....

BUT that is only fair imo.....the consumer that is buying your product is the one that should share in the tax burden......NOT the people who don't buy your product at all!!!

Everyone buys some product or service. If you raise taxes on ANY business, you raise the costs of goods and services for everyone.

 

[Navy1960]

So what goes up for him? Gas, insurance, and his net profits go down.

Okay we are talking about a symantics here. I know that after p&l deductions on business taxes your taxed on the gross amount minus p&l. I just used the term "GROSS RECIEPTS" like I always do. Of course it means after expenses. i.e tavel, operating cost, whatever. So if I caused confusion then my apologies. Thats why I give this crap to my accountant. *laughs* However, my point was, not that to begin with, my point is, that the tax itself is really meaningless, it was to simply point out that when you tax a business, it will be passed along to the consumer in another form. Si in essence that middle class tax cut, is negated by the rise in taxes on the business and the wealthy.

 

[Care4all]

Everyone buys some product or service. If you raise taxes on ANY business, you raise the costs of goods and services for everyone.

as with the ''fair tax'' sanders, i could limit my spending and purchases....