Biden: U.S. won't play favorites between Israelis, Palestinians

[CMike]

You can't win because the truth is not on your side.

Frankly, I think that attempting to substantiate your silly assertions with government propaganda is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

This is the actual declassified transcript of a US spy plane that caught the conversations between the Israeli pilots.

Fascinating. Tell me about the two transcripts that the NSA decided not to release to the public.

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

 

[CMike]

Wrong. There were high waves at the time, and the flag could not be seen.

Higher than airplanes, yes?

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

 

[manu1959]

why is this the business of the us to resolve........

 

[P F Tinmore]

Biden is a douche bag.

As was said, Israel is an established ally. Hamas is a terrorist organizations that has a long record of bombing market places, restaurants, buses, trains, bus stops etc.

Also, jerusalem is the capital of Israel, Israel has every right to establish homes for as many Israelis as they want. It's not negotiable.

Israel has been "winning" the war against Palestine for over 60 years. When the war is over, Israel's borders can be determined.

Israel already has it's borders.

Got a link?

 

[al Haq]

The USS Liberty had the most distinct profile in the world. It would be like mistaking an airplane for a house.

Sure doesn't look like any fishing boat

Israeli Mystere Jet (French made) lacking national insignia (a war crime), during one of the strafing runs and photographed by Captain McGonagle with a 35mm camera kept on bridge. The crew had no idea just who was attacking them until the torpedo boats showed up.

One of the 3 Israeli torpedo boats. These boats actually machine-gunned the deployed lifeboats from the ship (a war crime). One took aboard a shot-up inflatable raft, probably as a souvenir.

Another Israeli helicopter circles stricken ship before being called off by home base. Crew members described seeing armed, helmeted soldiers ready to disembark.

Survivors of the U.S.S. Liberty

 

[Kalam]

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

Weak response. In case any doubt remains:

"Key NSA tapes said missing

Asked whether the NSA had in fact intercepted the communications of the Israeli pilots who were attacking the Liberty, Kirby, the retired senior NSA official, replied, 'We sure did.' On its Web site, the NSA has posted three recordings of Israeli communications made on June 8, 1967. But none of the recordings is of the attack itself. Indeed, the declassified documents state that no recordings of the "actual attack" exist, raising questions about the source of the transcripts recalled by Forslund, Gotcher, Block, Porter, Lang and Kirby." The three recordings reflect what the NSA describes as "the aftermath" of the attack -- Israeli communications with two Israeli helicopters dispatched to rescue any survivors who may have jumped into the water. Two of the recordings were made by Michael Prostinak, a Hebrew linguist aboard a U.S. Navy EC-121, a lumbering propeller-driven aircraft specially equipped to gather electronic intelligence. But Prostinak said he was certain that more than three recordings were made that day. 'I can tell you there were more tapes than just the three on the Internet,' he said. 'No doubt in my mind, more than three tapes.' At least one of the missing tapes, Prostinak said, captured Israeli communications 'in which people were not just tranquil or taking care of business as normal. We knew that something was being attacked,' Prostinak said. 'Everyone we were listening to was excited. You know, it was an actual attack. And during the attack was when mention of the American flag was made.'"

"The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force. 'The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it,' Forslund recalled. 'The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag. The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors.' Forslund said he clearly recalled 'the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely. He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots' responses that it didn't sink.' "

Forslund's recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots' communications. One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service's 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at SonSix thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and cryptologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications. The transcripts Block remembered seeing 'were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack,' Block said. 'The pilots said, "This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?" And ground control came back and said, "Yes, follow orders." ' Gotcher and Forslund agreed with Block that the Jerusalem Post transcript was not at all like what they remember reading. 'There is simply no way that [the Post transcript is] the same as what I saw,' Gotcher said. 'More to the point, for anyone familiar with air-to-ground [communications] procedures, that simply isn't the way pilots and controllers communicate.' Block, now a child protection caseworker in Florida, observed that 'the fact that the Israeli pilots clearly identified the ship as American and asked for further instructions from ground control appears to be a missing part of that Jerusalem Post article.' 'It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty,' Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. 'Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to "complete the job" and get out of there.' "

"Arieh O'Sullivan, the Post reporter who made the newspaper's transcript, said the Israeli Air Force tapes he listened to contained blank spaces. He said he assumed those blank spaces occurred while Israeli pilots were conducting their strafing runs and had nothing to communicate."

"The late Dwight Porter, the American ambassador to Lebanon during the Six-Day War, told friends and family members that he had been shown English-language transcripts of Israeli pilots talking to their controllers. A close friend, William Chandler, the former head of the Trans-Arabian Pipe Line Co., said Porter recalled one of the pilots protesting, 'But sir, it's an American ship -- I can see the flag!' To which the ground control responded, 'Never mind; hit it!' Porter, who asked that his recollections not be made public while he was alive because they involved classified information, also discussed the transcripts during a lunch in 2000 at the Cosmos Club in Washington with another retired American diplomat, Andrew Kilgore, the former U.S. ambassador to Qatar. Kilgore recalled Porter saying that he 'saw the telex, read it, and passed it right back' to the embassy official who had shown it to him. He quoted Porter as recalling that the transcript showed 'Israel was attacking, and they know it's an American ship.' "

"Perhaps the most persuasive suggestion that such transcripts existed comes from the Israelis themselves, in a pair of diplomatic cables sent by the Israeli ambassador in Washington, Avraham Harman, to Foreign Minister Abba Eban in Tel Aviv. Five days after the Liberty attack, Harman cabled Eban that a source the Israelis code-named 'Hamlet' was reporting that the Americans had 'clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway.' Harman repeated the warning three days later, advising Eban, who is now dead, that the White House was 'very angry,' and that 'the reason for this is that the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American.' "

"Oliver Kirby, the NSA's deputy director for operations at the time of the Liberty attack, confirmed the existence of NSA transcripts. Asked whether he had personally read such transcripts, Kirby replied, 'I sure did. I certainly did. They said, "We've got him in the zero," ' Kirby recalled, 'whatever that meant -- I guess the sights or something. And then one of them said, "Can you see the flag?" They said "Yes, it's U.S, it's U.S." They said it several times, so there wasn't any doubt in anybody's mind that they knew it.'"

New revelations in attack on American spy ship - chicagotribune.com
​

Clearly, this information was the product of a vast anti-Semitic conspiracy among key US military and intelligence officials!

 

[Kalam]

Wrong. There were high waves at the time, and the flag could not be seen.

Higher than airplanes, yes?

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

 

[Marc39]

Higher than airplanes, yes?

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

Nobody fails to see the World Trade Towers, especially, Muslim jihadist pigs.

Allah is a loser.

 

[Marc39]

Clearly, this information was the product of a vast anti-Semitic conspiracy among key US military and intelligence officials!

Muslims worry too much about Jews, which is why Muslims are so backward, so poor, so illiterate and such losers, while Jews are so successful and prosperous.

Stupid Muslim pigs.

 

[Kalam]

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

Nobody fails to see the World Trade Towers, especially, Muslim jihadist pigs.

Allah is a loser.

"Hey! Hey! Over here! Quit talking about Israel! Talk about... erm... ah... Islam! Yeah, that's it!"

Stay on topic or fuck off, Zionist liar.

 

[Marc39]

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

Nobody fails to see the World Trade Towers, especially, Muslim jihadist pigs.

Allah is a loser.

"Hey! Hey! Over here! Quit talking about Israel! Talk about... erm... ah... Islam! Yeah, that's it!"

Stay on topic or fuck off, Zionist liar.

Muhammadans have bad tempers, eh, Muslim pig? You're so angry about the rest of the world passing you by, right? Your Arab countries are so backward and poor and repressed. You're all camel herders and losers.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYgrziadQIo]YouTube - Algerian author Anwar Malek talks about the arab world.[/ame]

 

[CMike]

Higher than airplanes, yes?

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

They would if the waves are covering the flag.

Got anything other than bs editorials?

I quoted from all 5 full US investigations that all concluded that it was an accident .

I also posted the actual transcript of the Israeli pilots as caught by a US spy plane.

Case closed .

Besides I am sure you would be thrilled for Americans to be killed anyway.

Your concern is disingenuous .

 

[P F Tinmore]

The flag was on a ship, not on a plane douche bag

No shit. Assuming that the waves weren't higher than airplanes, the Israeli pilots would have had no trouble seeing over them.

Nobody fails to see a 13-foot American flag on top of a ship.

Nobody fails to see the World Trade Towers, especially, Muslim jihadist pigs.

Allah is a loser.

Off topic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You can't win because the truth is not on your side.

Frankly, I think that attempting to substantiate your silly assertions with government propaganda is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

This is the actual declassified transcript of a US spy plane that caught the conversations between the Israeli pilots.

Fascinating. Tell me about the two transcripts that the NSA decided not to release to the public.

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

We should note that the facts reported by those who were attacked are different than the official story.

 

[Shogun]

Frankly, I think that attempting to substantiate your silly assertions with government propaganda is an insult to everyone's intelligence.




Fascinating. Tell me about the two transcripts that the NSA decided not to release to the public.

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

We should note that the facts reported by those who were attacked are different than the official story.

and lord fucking knows that such "official" reports are NEVER influenced by political affiliation..




and always truthful too!

 

[CMike]

Frankly, I think that attempting to substantiate your silly assertions with government propaganda is an insult to everyone's intelligence.




Fascinating. Tell me about the two transcripts that the NSA decided not to release to the public.

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

We should note that the facts reported by those who were attacked are different than the official story.

It's not based on an "offical story".

There were five full investigations with sworn testimony. ALL ruled that it was an accident.

The people on the ship, have no idea why they were attacked, only that they were attacked.

And I posted the NSA spy plane transcripts of the conversations between the Israelis.

 

[CMike]

You must hate documentation and facts.

It kind of takes the edge off your blatant lies.

We should note that the facts reported by those who were attacked are different than the official story.

and lord fucking knows that such "official" reports are NEVER influenced by political affiliation..




and always truthful too!

Basically you are calling the US Navy, the Joint Chiefs, The CIA, the US Senate, and, the NSA liars and that they lied under oath.

However, since the people on your side, including yourself, display hatred toward america I am not surprised of the attitude.

 

[Shogun]

We should note that the facts reported by those who were attacked are different than the official story.

and lord fucking knows that such "official" reports are NEVER influenced by political affiliation..




and always truthful too!

Basically you are calling the US Navy, the Joint Chiefs, The CIA, and, the NSA liars and that they lied under oath.

However, since the people on your side, including yourself, display hatred toward america I am not surprised of the attitude.

yes, I'm saying that people in those positions have historically bent their testimony around international relations. Hell, are you fucking stupid enough to not know that this very thing happened THIS WEEK regarding our relationship with Turkey?


but, hey...


"It was not the responsibility of the court to rule on the culpability of the attackers, and no evidence was heard from the attacking nation"

The Joint Chief of Staff's Report contains findings of fact related only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack. It was not concerned with matters of culpability, nor does it contain statements thereof.

as expressed by Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper: "From what I have read I can't tolerate for 1 minute that this [attack] was an accident." Also, there was concern about obtaining more information about the attack, as expressed by the committee's chairman: "We asked for [the attack investigation report] about 2 weeks ago and have not received it yet from Secretary Rusk."

The House Armed Services Committee Investigation report is entitled, "Review of Department of Defense Worldwide Communications". It was not an investigation focused on the Liberty attack; although, the committee's report contains a section that describes communications flow involved with the Liberty incident.

The NSA History Report is, as its name connotes, a historical report that cited the U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry record, various military and government messages and memorandum, and personal interviews for its content. The report ends with a section entitled, "Unanswered Questions", and provides no conclusion regarding culpability.

Critics—including an active group of survivors from the ship—assert that U.S. congressional investigations and other U.S. investigations were not actually investigations into the attack; but, rather, reports using evidence only from the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, or investigations unrelated to culpability that involved issues such as communications. In their view, the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry is the only actual investigation on the incident to date. They claim it was hastily conducted, in only 10 days, even though the court’s president, Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, said that it would take 6 months to conduct properly. The inquiry's terms of reference were limited to whether any shortcomings on the part of the Liberty's crew had contributed to the injuries and deaths that resulted from the attack.[37] According to the Navy Court of Inquiry's record of proceedings, four days were spent hearing testimony: two days for 14 survivors of the attack and several U.S. Navy expert witnesses, and two partial days for two expert U.S. Navy witnesses. No testimony was heard from Israeli personnel involved.

The National Archives in College Park, Md., includes in its files on casualties from the Liberty copies of the original telegrams the Navy sent out to family members. The telegrams called the attack accidental. The telegrams were sent out June 9, the day before the Navy court of inquiry convened.





In the historical report, it was acknowledged that IDF naval headquarters knew at least three hours before the attack that the ship was "an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy" but concluded that this information had simply "gotten lost, never passed along to the ground controllers who directed the air attack nor to the crews of the three Israeli torpedo boats."
.

Dean Rusk, US Secretary of State at the time of the incident, wrote:
“ I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.[41]

in which he claimed that Admiral Kidd had told him that the government ordered Kidd to falsely report that the attack was a mistake, and that he and Kidd both believed the attack was deliberate. On the issue Boston wrote, in part:
“ The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. Each evening, after hearing testimony all day, we often spoke our private thoughts concerning what we had seen and heard. I recall Admiral Kidd repeatedly referring to the Israeli forces responsible for the attack as 'murderous bastards.' It was our shared belief, based on the documentary evidence and testimony we received first hand, that the Israeli attack was planned and deliberate, and could not possibly have been an accident.



but hey... as long as the "official" conclusion benefits israel, right buddy?

 

[CMike]

The link?

Whether Husk was satisfied or not is irrelevant. It's his own personal opinion.

Here is the report of the US Navy Inquiry, which involved all the relevant sworn testimony.

http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/CourtOfInquiry.pdf

 

[CMike]

This seems silly since the pro-jihad people could care less if americans were killed or not but here it goes.

U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, June 18, 1967
" Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on the Liberty on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity."

CIA Report, June 13, 1967
The attack was a mistake. In 1978, in a response to an inquiry, Director of Central Intelligence Stansfield Turner wrote: "It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake."

Joint Chiefs of Staff, Russ Report, June 9-20, 1967 General Russ did not make any findings about the actual attack. The report compiled all message traffic and contains no evidence that the attack was not a mistake.

Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Clifford Report, July 18, 1967
"The information thus far available does not reflect that the Israeli high command made a premeditated attack on a ship known to be American…. "

National Security Agency, 1981
"Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship as a result of miscalculation and egregious errors."