Biden Blames GOP for Virginia Tech Killings

[musicman]

They way you guys keep talking about Clinton it gives one the impression that he is still running the country today.

I have no power over the impressions you might take from my discussions, so..."heal thyself", I guess...

Think about it Bush is almost out of office after two terms and its still Clinton's fault. Maybe that explains Bush's legacy as the president with the most time on vacation, he might as well go on vacation because Clinton runs the country as you guys keep claiming.

Let's just close all the history books while we're at it. What could we possibly learn from dead people?

 

[maineman]

I will never begrudge you the fact that the Clinton machine is one of the most successful and diabolically clever criminal enterprises in recent history; THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!
rightwingnuts somehow cannot possibly imagine that they "got away with it because they were innocent of wrongdoing. funny, that!

Never forget, though, that - in the nineties - they enjoyed the aid of an ally which no longer exists: a monopolistically complicit fourth estate. The MSM/DNC sacrificed its credibility on the altar of the Clinton cause; it will never again dominate political discourse. From here on in, the Clintons must stand naked. Not a pretty picture, is it?
how's the tinfoil hat fitting this evening? wow.



Bill Clinton had Osama Bin Laden in the crosshairs, and failed to act - deeming such a move politically inexpedient. That's who this man is. I didn't see anyone in the Bush Administration crying to ABC about the unflattering content of a 9/11 movie. And, only the Clinton machine deemed it prudent to engineer the theft and concealment of documents from the 9/11 Commission. Whether or not you see - or acknowledge - the truth is your problem. America has seen.

the truth is: you seem to avoid those points that you can't spin away from. FACT: this admininistration cancelled predator overflights of Afghanistan set up by Clinton to look for OBL. WHY? Because terrorism was so "last administration"....so "last century"...so "Clintonesque" Bush needed a more glamorous raison d'etre and it was starwars. FACT: Ashcroft pulled $52Million from the DoJ anti-terrorism task force the very day before 9/11. WHY? Because nobody in the Bush administration gave a shit about islamic terrorists. FACT: elements in this administration KNEW that arabs were learning to fly jetliners and not caring to learn how to land them MONTHS before 9/11 but the Bushies were asleep at the switch



I've already invited you to get over yourself; it appears that particular hurdle is beyond your present capabilities. You...really DO believe the world revolves around you and your every utterance, don't you? Here's a flash, Narcissus: you and I weren't discussing McCain and Cleland; we were discussing Clinton.

au contraire...we were discussing your allegation that the democrats were the mean and nasty party and the republicans were all upstanding gentlemen. After I choked on my coffee and then got ill...I answered that bullshit. YOU need to getg the fuck over yourself....in a crackden whore house, you wouldn't qualify as a gentleman.... just an asshole.

 

[musicman]

maineman:

I can deal with the fact that you have nothing of substance to say. But, do keep track of which conversations you've had with whom, mm'k? Go slowly back over the thread, taking notes, if necessary. Move your lips as you read if it helps you.

 

[Diuretic]

Im simply refuting his assertion that its the rights fault when his own party has been doing it for 40 years. If conservatives are going to be attacked, I think they have ever right to fight back. They havent done nearly the things liberals have done.

No you weren't, you had a dummy spit. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's cathartic, but don't try to dress it up as a "refutation". Everyone fights dirty in politics, the prizes go to whoever's best at conning the electorate.

 

[Diuretic]

I am NOT sure where the meanness started, but i do know, that i see a lot of meanness from the far-left. I am not speaking of most democrats. I would like your opinion as to what you see the far right doing, and in what numbers. Cause the meaness has to stop, regardless. But I want your opinions.

The far left is composed of nutters. There is no far left in mainstream politics in the US today.

 

[Annie]

The far left is composed of nutters. There is no far left in mainstream politics in the US today.

The very far left media are the blogs such as Daily Kos. The media of the far left is NY Times, all three networks, and CNN/MSN.

 

[Diuretic]

The very far left media are the blogs such as Daily Kos. The media of the far left is NY Times, all three networks, and CNN/MSN.

Kathianne, with respect, Kos isn't far left, he's left. But you are, of course entitled to your view and I say that without a trace of sarcasm or unpleasantness. Having said that I do find some of the stuff in Kos painfully stupid. The NY Times isn't on the left. Read DU, you mention the NY Times and it's a screamfest, I can see the saliva on the inside of my monitor. Nor the networks and CNN. They're all owned by big corporations. There are no big leftist corporations in the States I'll wager. They are all well to the right of centre. Fox, of course is on the right, but it's an opportunist position they have. Murdoch, cunning bastard, saw that a bunch of loudmouth yobbo rejects from any decent journalism school (why does Michelle Malkin look like a performing seal when she goes off ?) could be flung together to set up a scream team that would appeal to base instincts.

If you want left, read Indymedia.

 

[maineman]

maineman:

I can deal with the fact that you have nothing of substance to say. But, do keep track of which conversations you've had with whom, mm'k? Go slowly back over the thread, taking notes, if necessary. Move your lips as you read if it helps you.

gosh...you are right, harold.... it was that other brilliant conservative thinker, eightball, that claimed that the right was all ladies and gentlemen unfairly put upon by the street brawling unethical democrats.

you two are so alike, it is tough for an older fella like myself to keep track sometimes.

I actually do have a lot of substance to offer this board and this conversation if you really care to engage me....or would you prefer to maintain the current schoolyard taunting framework going forward?

your call.

 

[Gunny]

Biden's point is that the republican party in the last 12 years or so has been responsible for the mean tone in American politics... and that mean spirited nature has spread throughout society..... now maybe it was in society first and the republican party is merely a reflection of it, but I don't think so. I know that, in Maine, for example, Bill Cohen and George Mitchell were not only senators on opposite sides of the aisle, they were close friends who collaborated on a novel, Men of Zeal ... that sort of iter-party comraderie is dead and I say that it died with Newt and Ken Starr. Others can claim other beginnings.... they are welcome to it...but it doesn't really matter who started it at this point.... it is the way we do politics these days, and clearly, the side that offers the olive branch first gets their legs chopped off.

And I would strongly disagree with Biden's "point." Who and where it started may be questionable, depending on the age of the accuser. However, I think attempting to blame the "mean tone in American politics" on the GOP is ludicrous.

I agree in regard to offering the olive branch; however, does the government of the United States work for us? Or are we on the sidelines at their mercy?

Our government running this country has taken a back seat to a neverending political football game.

 

[musicman]

gosh...you are right, harold.... it was that other brilliant conservative thinker, eightball, that claimed that the right was all ladies and gentlemen unfairly put upon by the street brawling unethical democrats.

you two are so alike, it is tough for an older fella like myself to keep track sometimes.

I actually do have a lot of substance to offer this board and this conversation if you really care to engage me....or would you prefer to maintain the current schoolyard taunting framework going forward?

your call.

Don't talk shit to Kathianne any more, and you and I are golden. The lady is a friend of mine.

 

[Gunny]

gosh...you are right, harold.... it was that other brilliant conservative thinker, eightball, that claimed that the right was all ladies and gentlemen unfairly put upon by the street brawling unethical democrats.

you two are so alike, it is tough for an older fella like myself to keep track sometimes.

I actually do have a lot of substance to offer this board and this conversation if you really care to engage me....or would you prefer to maintain the current schoolyard taunting framework going forward?

your call.

Insofar as who is the aggressor at the moment, it's hard to deny the Democrats are on the attack. All you have to do is look at any message boad and the top stories. If they are not an attack on Bush or someone in his administration, they're Democrat testimonials to what's wrong with the Bush, his administration, the GOP or conservatives in general.

And IMO, so long as the Democrats pursue this agenda of witch hunting against Bush and his administration, it's only going to backfire on them in the future.

It's happened to the Democrats before, and it most recently happened to the GOP; yet, neither seem to learn the lessons history has to offer.

 

[maineman]

Insofar as who is the aggressor at the moment, it's hard to deny the Democrats are on the attack. All you have to do is look at any message boad and the top stories. If they are not an attack on Bush or someone in his administration, they're Democrat testimonials to what's wrong with the Bush, his administration, the GOP or conservatives in general.

And IMO, so long as the Democrats pursue this agenda of witch hunting against Bush and his administration, it's only going to backfire on them in the future.

It's happened to the Democrats before, and it most recently happened to the GOP; yet, neither seem to learn the lessons history has to offer.

I do not disagree with that analysis one bit.... I merely point out that the party that offers the first olive branch will get their legs chopped off.... it is a tough cycle to break

 

[Superlative]

Insofar as who is the aggressor at the moment, it's hard to deny the Democrats are on the attack. All you have to do is look at any message boad and the top stories. If they are not an attack on Bush or someone in his administration, they're Democrat testimonials to what's wrong with the Bush, his administration, the GOP or conservatives in general.

And IMO, so long as the Democrats pursue this agenda of witch hunting against Bush and his administration, it's only going to backfire on them in the future.

It's happened to the Democrats before, and it most recently happened to the GOP; yet, neither seem to learn the lessons history has to offer.

Its the whole idea that someone started talkin trash, and the Mob mentality kicked in, they havent really thought everything through in what they are saying.

Its just with the Dems in the 'house' they feel they have some room to vocalize their displeasure with Bush.

I side with both ends for different reasons, It would be nice if everyone was better informed and less biased in their opinions, but wouldnt that be nice, if everyone was rational. ha.

 

[Superlative]

The best short term solution is to have politicians deliver their views without their respective Conservative or Liberal spin on it.

But without the spin its not as polarising is it?

 

[Gunny]

I do not disagree with that analysis one bit.... I merely point out that the party that offers the first olive branch will get their legs chopped off.... it is a tough cycle to break

I agreed with you on that.

 

[Gunny]

Its the whole idea that someone started talkin trash, and the Mob mentality kicked in, they havent really thought everything through in what they are saying.

Its just with the Dems in the 'house' they feel they have some room to vocalize their displeasure with Bush.

I side with both ends for different reasons, It would be nice if everyone was better informed and less biased in their opinions, but wouldnt that be nice, if everyone was rational. ha.

And the ende result is they have presented a divided front to the enemy.

 

[maineman]

And the ende result is they have presented a divided front to the enemy.

that is what happens in vibrant healthy democracies.... the sides don't always get along. I think that the end result is that we show them how strong and resilient our democracy really is...and even if they do not see it that way or appreciate it for what it is, to do anything else would be to stifle the loud and raucous dialog that makes us great in our OWN eyes. I really don't care what impression our enemies OR friends have of our political discourse. I certainly wouldn't change it simply to put on airs for the neighbors... when we ARE united on anything, THAT is the time to show a united front. Short of that unity, we should continue to debate and modify and refine our foreign and domestic policy in the fiery furnace of public debate and public opinion.

 

[red states rule]

that is what happens in vibrant healthy democracies.... the sides don't always get along. I think that the end result is that we show them how strong and resilient our democracy really is...and even if they do not see it that way or appreciate it for what it is, to do anything else would be to stifle the loud and raucous dialog that makes us great in our OWN eyes. I really don't care what impression our enemies OR friends have of our political discourse. I certainly wouldn't change it simply to put on airs for the neighbors... when we ARE united on anything, THAT is the time to show a united front. Short of that unity, we should continue to debate and modify and refine our foreign and domestic policy in the fiery furnace of public debate and public opinion.

So now we govern by polls?

Oh, that is how Dems do govern

 

[red states rule]

What Turns a Man Into a Monster?
Three days after the deadliest shooting rampage in American history, many are left wondering what could have possibly driven a seemingly bright young man to acts of such unspeakable evil. Was it violent video games? Rap music? Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest one percent of Americans? Or was it the result of bad parenting, perhaps?

Highly unlikely. My childhood wasn’t exactly idyllic, but I would never dream of harming another human being. If someone put a gun into my hand, though, there’d be nothing to stop me from marching over to Mr. Caruther’s condo, kicking down his door, and popping a cap into his fat Repug ass.

“YOU MADE ME DO THIS CARUTHERS!” I’d scream at him. “YES, YOU!! WITH YOUR BIG FANCY SCHMANCY SUV AND YOUR SEMPER FI BUMPERSTICKER ON THE BACK AND RUSH FATTY PILLPOPPER BLARING FROM YOUR FANCY SCHMANCY CAR STEREO! I HATE YOU, CARUTHERS!!!! I HATE YOU, AND NOW YOU’RE GOING TO DIE, RIGHT HERE, IN YOUR POORLY DECORATED LIVING ROOM, YOU RIGHT-WING CHICKENHAWK!!!”

“No I’m not,” Caruthers would say.

“OH YES YOU ARE!” I’d insist.

“No I’m not,” he’d insist back.

“YES YOU ARE! YES YOU ARE! YES YOU ARE!”

“No I’m not,” he'd sigh, and go back to biting the heads off of puppies, or whatever it is that Repugs do when there aren't any Blacks around to lynch or poor people to screw over.

“OKAY, JUST SUPPOSING FOR A MOMENT THAT YOU’RE RIGHT," I'd offer, "EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHY YOU AREN’T GOING TO DIE LIKE THE NEOCON PIG YOU ARE.”

“Because you left the safety on,” he’d reply with that smug little smirk of his.

“NO I DIDN’T!” I’d say.

“Yes you did,” he’d insist, “and you’re holding the gun wrong. The barrel is supposed to point away from you.”

‘NO IT’S NOT!” I’d retort.

“Yes it is,” he’d volley.

‘NO IT’S NOT! NO IT’S NOT! NO IT’S NOT!”

“Fine then,” he’d relent. “Go ahead and pull the trigger.”

I’d hesitate for a moment, perhaps caught off guard by his utter stupidity, and he’d seize the moment to quickly snatch the gun from my fingers and pistol-whip me to a bloody pulp right there in his poorly decorated living room.

Mother would show up drunk at the funeral. She’d probably try to get into the preacher’s pants. Then she’d strip naked in front of everyone and start dancing around like she’s back at Woodstock until she clumsily knocked my casket over, spilling my pale, rotting cadaver onto the ground.

‘YOU BITCH!! YOU RUINED MY LIFE!”

But the blame for my terrible fate is not hers. It belongs to Bush and his NRA cronies for putting that gun into my hands. You see, it’s not one’s upringing, nor rap music, nor is it being bombarded with violent imagery since before he could crawl that turns a man into a monster. It’s not a culture lacking a moral compass that creates someone who could pick up a gun and murder 33 innocent people without any remorse. It’s George W. Bush.

But it’s also the mere existence and ready availability of guns that drives men to kill one another.

But mostly it’s Bush.

http://blamebush.typepad.com/

 

[maineman]

So now we govern by polls?

Oh, that is how Dems do govern

where did I mention polls? I said that political discourse and discord is part and parcel of healthy democracy. To shut that down in a misguided effort to avoid giving a "bad" impression to our enemies does nothing more than stifle that which makes us better than our enemies.