Better bargain, "bang for buck": Government or Private sector???

[Londoner]

So...basically, the private sector is built on the idea that people give them money, and they give them a product or service that is worth a little bit less than the money they gave, or a LOT less. Thats how profit works.

All good points and enjoyable to read.

Here is how profit also works.

Consider two cable TV/phone/internet companies: Charter and Cox. [My brother in-law lobbies for one of these companies] They pour money into Washington for the purpose of dividing their regions into fixed no-compete zones. As a result there are towns in say Southern California where on one side of the street you can get Charter but not Cox. On the other side of the street you can get Cox but not Charter. A few miles down the road you can get AT&T U-verse.

Essentially, these companies have government-protected monopolies. They are protected from market competition. This allows them to raises rates and diminish services without fear of losing customers. By doing this they are essentially taking care of of wealthy shareholders at the expense of the poor consumer. This is what happens in Health Insurance as well. In many states, consumers only have one or two options.

What do Charter and Cox do with their profits? They invest a portion of them into the information system (think tanks, television, radio, internet, publish groups, PACs, etc) who are paid to convince you that they represent freedom while government represents slavery.

Here is what they don't tell you. They - Charter,Cox, Health Care, Energy, etc - are government. [Who do you think funds elections? Do you know what happens to a rightwing Senator who doesn't do the corporate bidding? He gets destroyed by Super Pac money and replaced by a candidate who will "play ball".] The private sector - John Galt - funds elections, staffs government, writes its own regulations and uses the taxpayer's wallet like an ATM (subsidies and bailouts). Goldman Sachs runs the Fed. The line between Congressman and Drug Lobbyist has disappeared. This is why Eli Lilly - in 2003 under the GOP - was awarded no-compete above market prices for Medicare drug sales.

Thing is son, when you speak of government and the private sector as if they're separate things, you are participating in a dangerous illusion. The final phase of capitalism is when the market winners use their tremendous resources to consolidate control over politics and media. This results in a system where free market competition is destroyed in sector after sector ... and any attempt by government to restore competition is called "socialism". You might ask "but how can they get away with such an Orwellian sleight of hand?" Answer: because they own the media.

Turn off the radio. Throw away the TV. Log off the computer...

And get yourself to a library.

 

[SniperFire]

Ridiculous thread fail.

Free enterprise and capitalism and yes - PROFIT MOTIVE - as pioneered by America has improved the material wellbeing of humans 100 fold.

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[Londoner]

We've never had free market capitalism. Every market is tightly regulated. We have always had heavy state involvement. During the postwar years the regulatory apparatus was more favorable to Labor (through trade laws, various forms of protectionism, and a tacit acceptance of unions)... and there were more anti-trust protections for the consumer's benefit. Additionally there were a number of government policies that targeted middle class demand.

Starting with Reagan - who decided that business should regulate itself - we saw a long period of regulatory capture. Corporations targeted regulatory agencies and the Fed. Now corporations decide the rules they will follow. This is why there was such a dustup over Chaney's famous energy commission that convened on the eve of the Iraq War.

If you've ever seen the Washington lobby machine up close, it's clear who runs government. Senators from both parties have lucrative lobbying jobs waiting for them when they leave office. Their job is to bend market outcomes through varying forms of pressure, mostly financial. Their job is to protect shareholders from market competition by rigging entrance barriers and getting no-bid access to taxpayer dollars.

Research who killed the first major wave of electric cars in California. Research the battle between Reagan and the alternative energy movement (that started during the 70s energy crisis). Research what happened to energy competition. Research what happened when Reagan was asked to price the cost of stabilizing the Middle East into a barrel of oil, specifically his desire to protect oil from damaging market signals. [Free market? Not on your life. The point of profit is to protect shareholders by lobbying Washington to rig the game. Or did you think the trillions of dollars spent each year was just for fun]

Capitalism is the most productive engine on earth... nothing is better than having businesses compete for your dollar. Unfortunately, our politicians like profit as much as the shareholders they award monopolies to.

 

[Lovebears65]

Which use of your dollar gives you the most value? The most bang for the buck? Lets discuss:

Government: Most people pay between 25%-50% of their salary on taxes (local, county, state, sales, federal, etc). What do we get for it? Here it is:

- Roads that are passable, in relatively ok shape, so we can drive.
- Military protection: The US hasn't been invaded by a foreign nation since....well, ever. The Brits lost in 1776. Japan never attempted an invasion.
- Police protection: You have somehwere near you, at all times 24/7, an armed cop willing to risk his life to protect yours anytime if you dial 911. As close to a personal bodyguard as one can get without paying for it.
- Fire protection: If your home catches fire, a truck comes with brave men on it who will save your ass and try to save your house.
- Schools- Some suck, some dont. But we have public schools that everyone has access to.
- A social safety net: YES, it has issues and money trouble. But bottom line is....our people dont starve to death or have to fight wars for water. Our poor are fat for God's sake.

I feel like...if Im being honest...that we taxpayers are getting a pretty good deal overall. 90% of us are getting back WAY MORE from the govt than we put into it. Now...we should fix the problems for sure.

Private sector: For the sake of the length of this thread, I wont list every single thing the private sector provides. Basically everything thats not listed above.

HOWEVER....there is one kick: They are FOR PROFIT. Meaning...whatever money you give them...you're getting LESS in return. Otherwise they'd go broke. I pay Comcast $75 a month. I dont get $75 worth of product in return. I pay Best Buy $60 for the new Madden NFL video game. That game did NOT cost Best Buy $60.


So...basically, the private sector is built on the idea that people give them money, and they give them a product or service that is worth a little bit less than the money they gave, or a LOT less. Thats how profit works.

And the government...provides 90% of people far more in return than they put in. Which may not be sustainable at all much longer, but is great for 90% of people. And the other 10%? Well, its payback for taking our money in the private sector and not returning teh same amount hahaha!

How do you expect companies to pay employees if they have no profit.. what ever. I dont want the government in everything in our life. They to involved as it is.. This is NOT what our Fore fathers wanted that is why they fought and died for ...