Best Peace Plan I have heard - From a Palestinian American

[The Rabbi]

OK then Rabbi,

Both Jews and Christians do celebrate Halloween.

Does that make them Druids?

And Halloween is a Druid holiday?

yes, it is, bubbeleh.

you should get out more.

No, actually it isn't, faygola. You should read more.

 

[Shogun]

And Halloween is a Druid holiday?

yes, it is, bubbeleh.

you should get out more.

No, actually it isn't, faygola. You should read more.

The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities.

During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.

By A.D. 43, Romans had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the four hundred years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain.

Ancient Origins of Halloween - The Real Story of Halloween - History.com




eh.. what the hell does the HISTORY CHANNEL know that a jew can't claim is antisemtitic by it's very evidential nature. this thread sure has taken a HILARIOUS turn.

 

[del]

And Halloween is a Druid holiday?

yes, it is, bubbeleh.

you should get out more.

No, actually it isn't, faygola. You should read more.

maybe you should pull your kop out of your tucchus and wipe the dreck off your punim, shmo.

 

[Shogun]

I tellya... I can't wait to see what culture The Rabbi thinks brought Halloween to us. 5 rep points says that he is convinced that it originates within the hebrew culture.

 

[Coyote]

Can't answer that one, eh?

Because you know the answer. The answer is the Israelis and the Palestinians are the same race. Ergo it cannot be apartheid.
What it is is the self-preservation of a country inhabited by people who have not enjoyed their own political existence for 2k years and are now under siege by a murderous tribe that thinks nothing of blowing up their own women and children, much less their enemy's. As such it is not comparable to any other conflict.
Thanks for playing. On to the next subject.

So they're both of the Semitic race. No such thing as religious apartheid? Holy CHIT mon! These yahoos invented a brandy new way to skull fuck generations of people. But wait, NOTHING can be done about this injustice without the settling of the proper TERM for such scum buggery! Delay, delay... and meanwhile, lets blame the victims of this international crime for fighting BACK, because fuck knows that no-one else would VIOLENTLY oppose the taking of their lands, the killing of their children, the vicious control of what little economy (not to mention water) was allowed them based on a crime that took place on another fucking CONTINENT and enabled by the new bestest friends of the conquering ARMY.

You're talking about the Israelis, right? Who has had children killed? Israelis. WHo has had their economy impacted by terrorism? Israelis.

You need to get some facts straight before you flap your lips.

Who has had children killed: Estimates vary, but from 2000 to present, approximately 124 Israeli children and 1441 Palestinian children.

Who has had their economy impacted by terrorism?

The Israeli unemployement is around 7.3%. The Palestinian unemployment is at 18.6% for the West Bank and for 34.8% Gaza (source is CIA factbook).

In Israel has risen, but most economists blame that on the global slowdown that has hit particularly hard in the high-tech areas (which Israel's economy is particularly dependent on). Palestinian unemployment is predominatly due to Israeli policies of closure and trade and movement restrictions that make it nearly impossible to conduct business.

No, there is no such thing as "religious apartheid." And if there were, it would not apply to Israel. What religion are the Druse?

Who is saying it's "religious" apartheid? It's racial according to the the definitions under international law...unless you can address the actual points and make a case for why it *isn't* rather than playing silly word games.

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

 

[Coyote]

International human rights law? You're joking, right? These are the same jokers that consistently get together to condemn Israel while ignoring real human rights violations.
Don't even go there.

You're right...I keep forgetting that Israel is above condemnation by international law...

Anyway, you can define a dog as a cat, but it doesnt make it so. You can define Palestinians as a race separate from teh Israelis, but it doesn't make it so either. Who is playing semantic games now?

I laid out particular areas in which the Israeli/Palestinian situation resembles Aparthied. You consistently ignore it in an attempt to deflect this discussion into an issue of semantics.

You can lay out particular areas where America resembles Cuba. But that doesn't make the comparison valid.
What rights do Palestinians in Israel not have that Israelis do have? To serve in the army? Palestinians have exactly the same rights as Israelis. No point pretending otherwise. And Druse as well. What religion and race are the Druse, by the way?

We argued this before and you never directly addressed it.

As to rights - go back and read my post. I mentioned some rights that are denied by law and some rights that are denied more subtly.

 

[Charles Stucker]

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

Is it more like
Druze is to Islam as Protestant is to Catholic (A)
or
Druze is to Islam as Mormon is to Christian (B)

A simple A or B will suffice.

Finally does this mean that Druze can be righteously murdered, er executed, for blasphemy by both Sunni and Shiite?

 

[The Rabbi]

So they're both of the Semitic race. No such thing as religious apartheid? Holy CHIT mon! These yahoos invented a brandy new way to skull fuck generations of people. But wait, NOTHING can be done about this injustice without the settling of the proper TERM for such scum buggery! Delay, delay... and meanwhile, lets blame the victims of this international crime for fighting BACK, because fuck knows that no-one else would VIOLENTLY oppose the taking of their lands, the killing of their children, the vicious control of what little economy (not to mention water) was allowed them based on a crime that took place on another fucking CONTINENT and enabled by the new bestest friends of the conquering ARMY.

You're talking about the Israelis, right? Who has had children killed? Israelis. WHo has had their economy impacted by terrorism? Israelis.

You need to get some facts straight before you flap your lips.

Who has had children killed: Estimates vary, but from 2000 to present, approximately 124 Israeli children and 1441 Palestinian children.

Who has had their economy impacted by terrorism?

The Israeli unemployement is around 7.3%. The Palestinian unemployment is at 18.6% for the West Bank and for 34.8% Gaza (source is CIA factbook).

In Israel has risen, but most economists blame that on the global slowdown that has hit particularly hard in the high-tech areas (which Israel's economy is particularly dependent on). Palestinian unemployment is predominatly due to Israeli policies of closure and trade and movement restrictions that make it nearly impossible to conduct business.

No, there is no such thing as "religious apartheid." And if there were, it would not apply to Israel. What religion are the Druse?

Who is saying it's "religious" apartheid? It's racial according to the the definitions under international law...unless you can address the actual points and make a case for why it *isn't* rather than playing silly word games.

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

Citing a website with an obvious agenda is no way to bolster your case. We can point out the Israeli children were killed by Palestinian terrorists blowing up buses and the like. The Palestinian children were killed because the PLO and Hamas like to wage war in urban areas.
We've already established that Israelis and palestinians are the same race, so no arguing that one anymore.
And Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in, say Kuwait. Maybe your ire would be better directed to the Kuwaitis.
And as to the economy: Jordan's unemployment rate is officially at 13% and unofficially at 30%. So it isn't Israel causing their problems. It is government corruption and graft.

 

[Coyote]

You're talking about the Israelis, right? Who has had children killed? Israelis. WHo has had their economy impacted by terrorism? Israelis.

You need to get some facts straight before you flap your lips.

Who has had children killed: Estimates vary, but from 2000 to present, approximately 124 Israeli children and 1441 Palestinian children.

Who has had their economy impacted by terrorism?

The Israeli unemployement is around 7.3%. The Palestinian unemployment is at 18.6% for the West Bank and for 34.8% Gaza (source is CIA factbook).

In Israel has risen, but most economists blame that on the global slowdown that has hit particularly hard in the high-tech areas (which Israel's economy is particularly dependent on). Palestinian unemployment is predominatly due to Israeli policies of closure and trade and movement restrictions that make it nearly impossible to conduct business.

No, there is no such thing as "religious apartheid." And if there were, it would not apply to Israel. What religion are the Druse?

Who is saying it's "religious" apartheid? It's racial according to the the definitions under international law...unless you can address the actual points and make a case for why it *isn't* rather than playing silly word games.

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

Citing a website with an obvious agenda is no way to bolster your case. We can point out the Israeli children were killed by Palestinian terrorists blowing up buses and the like. The Palestinian children were killed because the PLO and Hamas like to wage war in urban areas.

Agenda or not, there is little dispute that the numbers of children killed is quite disproportionate but it's nice to see you making excuses for the murder of children with the same old tired rhetoric. I guess that somehow makes it ok eh?

Are Businessweek and the CIA Fact Book sources with obvious agendas too?

We've already established that Israelis and palestinians are the same race, so no arguing that one anymore.

We've established nothing except that you are playing word games in an effort to dodge the issues.

And Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in, say Kuwait. Maybe your ire would be better directed to the Kuwaitis.

We aren't talking about Kuwait. We are talking about Israel and how it's policies resemble apartheid. Please try to keep up.

And as to the economy: Jordan's unemployment rate is officially at 13% and unofficially at 30%. So it isn't Israel causing their problems. It is government corruption and graft.

Source?

Again. We aren't talking about Jordan (who's governance, economy and demographics are completely different than that which exists in Gaza for example). We are talking about the Palestinians and Israel. If you are unable to discuss the topic and prefer to deflect then admit defeat.

 

[Coyote]

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

Is it more like
Druze is to Islam as Protestant is to Catholic (A)
or
Druze is to Islam as Mormon is to Christian (B)

A simple A or B will suffice.

I think a better comparison of Druze might be to Bahai.

 

[The Rabbi]

You need to get some facts straight before you flap your lips.

Who has had children killed: Estimates vary, but from 2000 to present, approximately 124 Israeli children and 1441 Palestinian children.

Who has had their economy impacted by terrorism?

The Israeli unemployement is around 7.3%. The Palestinian unemployment is at 18.6% for the West Bank and for 34.8% Gaza (source is CIA factbook).

In Israel has risen, but most economists blame that on the global slowdown that has hit particularly hard in the high-tech areas (which Israel's economy is particularly dependent on). Palestinian unemployment is predominatly due to Israeli policies of closure and trade and movement restrictions that make it nearly impossible to conduct business.



Who is saying it's "religious" apartheid? It's racial according to the the definitions under international law...unless you can address the actual points and make a case for why it *isn't* rather than playing silly word games.

The Druze are Druze - something akin to a Unitarian version of Islam.

Citing a website with an obvious agenda is no way to bolster your case. We can point out the Israeli children were killed by Palestinian terrorists blowing up buses and the like. The Palestinian children were killed because the PLO and Hamas like to wage war in urban areas.

Agenda or not, there is little dispute that the numbers of children killed is quite disproportionate but it's nice to see you making excuses for the murder of children with the same old tired rhetoric. I guess that somehow makes it ok eh?

Are Businessweek and the CIA Fact Book sources with obvious agendas too?



We've established nothing except that you are playing word games in an effort to dodge the issues.

And Palestinians have more rights in Israel than they do in, say Kuwait. Maybe your ire would be better directed to the Kuwaitis.

We aren't talking about Kuwait. We are talking about Israel and how it's policies resemble apartheid. Please try to keep up.

And as to the economy: Jordan's unemployment rate is officially at 13% and unofficially at 30%. So it isn't Israel causing their problems. It is government corruption and graft.

Source?

Again. We aren't talking about Jordan (who's governance, economy and demographics are completely different than that which exists in Gaza for example). We are talking about the Palestinians and Israel. If you are unable to discuss the topic and prefer to deflect then admit defeat.

I am not condoning murdering children. I think the Palestinians need to suffer consequences for murdering their own children as much as for murdering Israeli children. The fact that they were willing to sacrifice so many is testament to their lack of compassion. Why would anyone want to negotiate with people who cause the murder of their own children, let alone others'?
You are trying to compare economic conditions in the West Bank/Gaza, which is a 3rd world dictatorship, with Israel, which is a 4th world democracy. A better comparison is with another 3rd world dictatorship, and Jordan fits the bill pretty well.
And my source for Jordan's unemployment rate was the CIA factbook. Same as you.

 

[Coyote]

I am not condoning murdering children. I think the Palestinians need to suffer consequences for murdering their own children as much as for murdering Israeli children.

In other words....if Palestinian children get killed it's a direct result of the Palestinian's own policies but if Israeli children get killed it's NOT a result of Israel's policies?

Seems to be a double standard at play that sounds like condoning it by blaming the victim.

How about some consequences for the Israeli's murdering Palestinian children in the last conflict where it was pretty obvious they used far more force then needed, white phosphorous, etc on the civilian population? How many children were killed because they were trapped like fish in a barrel and "safe places" didn't exist in reality and medical help was blocked?

The fact that they were willing to sacrifice so many is testament to their lack of compassion. Why would anyone want to negotiate with people who cause the murder of their own children, let alone others'?

WHO was willing to sacrifice so many?

You are trying to compare economic conditions in the West Bank/Gaza, which is a 3rd world dictatorship, with Israel, which is a 4th world democracy. A better comparison is with another 3rd world dictatorship, and Jordan fits the bill pretty well.
And my source for Jordan's unemployment rate was the CIA factbook. Same as you.

That sounds real good except for one glaring fact: Israel has an unusual amount of direct control over the Palestinian economy as I already pointed out. That pretty much makes comparisons to "dictatorships" meaningless. Add to that, there is little dispute that Israel's ongoing actions and blockades of Palestinian territories have destroyed not only their infrastructure but their economy - you can't build a viable economy under the sorts of restrictions they must operate under and the constant possibility of demolition.

 

[The Rabbi]

If I throw your dog in front of a truck, who is responsible for killing your dog, me or the truck? If I claim I did that because you looked bad at me, does that absolve me from all guilt?

If you answer anything other than the obvious you have proven yourself a tool of the terrorists.

 

[Sunni Man]

If you answer anything other than the obvious you have proven yourself a tool of the terrorists.

Not sure what you are trying to get him to say Rabbi?

But you have proven yourself a "tool" on this board many times.

 

[Coyote]

If I throw your dog in front of a truck, who is responsible for killing your dog, me or the truck? If I claim I did that because you looked bad at me, does that absolve me from all guilt?

If you answer anything other than the obvious you have proven yourself a tool of the terrorists.

Your logic is flawed. Simply looking at the last conflict within Gaza points that out. White phospherous in an urban center - the most densly populated area on earth?

An Israeli kills an unarmed Palestinian.
A Palestinian kills an unarmed Israeli.

What's the difference?

The fact that you would label anyone who disagrees with you "a tool of the terrorists" shows you up as the joke you are - incapable of honest debate.

 

[Polk]

If I throw your dog in front of a truck, who is responsible for killing your dog, me or the truck? If I claim I did that because you looked bad at me, does that absolve me from all guilt?

If you answer anything other than the obvious you have proven yourself a tool of the terrorists.

Your logic is flawed. Simply looking at the last conflict within Gaza points that out. White phospherous in an urban center - the most densly populated area on earth?

An Israeli kills an unarmed Palestinian.
A Palestinian kills an unarmed Israeli.

What's the difference?

The fact that you would label anyone who disagrees with you "a tool of the terrorists" shows you up as the joke you are - incapable of honest debate.

While I don't agree with "Rabbi" (far from it in fact), it's not that simple. I would argue there is a big difference between targeting civilians (as the Palestinians do) and some civilians being killed in the context of a military operation (as the Israelis do).

 

[Kalam]

If I throw your dog in front of a truck, who is responsible for killing your dog, me or the truck? If I claim I did that because you looked bad at me, does that absolve me from all guilt?

If you answer anything other than the obvious you have proven yourself a tool of the terrorists.

Your logic is flawed. Simply looking at the last conflict within Gaza points that out. White phospherous in an urban center - the most densly populated area on earth?

An Israeli kills an unarmed Palestinian.
A Palestinian kills an unarmed Israeli.

What's the difference?

The fact that you would label anyone who disagrees with you "a tool of the terrorists" shows you up as the joke you are - incapable of honest debate.

While I don't agree with "Rabbi" (far from it in fact), it's not that simple. I would argue there is a big difference between targeting civilians (as the Palestinians do) and some civilians being killed in the context of a military operation (as the Israelis do).

What is the difference in the outcome of each situation?

 

[The Rabbi]

Your logic is flawed. Simply looking at the last conflict within Gaza points that out. White phospherous in an urban center - the most densly populated area on earth?

An Israeli kills an unarmed Palestinian.
A Palestinian kills an unarmed Israeli.

What's the difference?

The fact that you would label anyone who disagrees with you "a tool of the terrorists" shows you up as the joke you are - incapable of honest debate.

While I don't agree with "Rabbi" (far from it in fact), it's not that simple. I would argue there is a big difference between targeting civilians (as the Palestinians do) and some civilians being killed in the context of a military operation (as the Israelis do).

What is the difference in the outcome of each situation?

What is the difference between being murdered and dying of natural causes, as the outcome is the same in both situations?

 

[Kalam]

While I don't agree with "Rabbi" (far from it in fact), it's not that simple. I would argue there is a big difference between targeting civilians (as the Palestinians do) and some civilians being killed in the context of a military operation (as the Israelis do).

What is the difference in the outcome of each situation?

What is the difference between being murdered and dying of natural causes, as the outcome is the same in both situations?

Let's not be distracted from the fact that all of the deaths we're discussing here involve murder.

 

[GHook93]

Your logic is flawed. Simply looking at the last conflict within Gaza points that out. White phospherous in an urban center - the most densly populated area on earth?

An Israeli kills an unarmed Palestinian.
A Palestinian kills an unarmed Israeli.

What's the difference?

The fact that you would label anyone who disagrees with you "a tool of the terrorists" shows you up as the joke you are - incapable of honest debate.

While I don't agree with "Rabbi" (far from it in fact), it's not that simple. I would argue there is a big difference between targeting civilians (as the Palestinians do) and some civilians being killed in the context of a military operation (as the Israelis do).

What is the difference in the outcome of each situation?

See my avatar for the difference Kalam!