Best Peace Plan I have heard - From a Palestinian American

[The Rabbi]

Which part of my post is bigoted, comments on whether I agree or disagree with Hanania's proposal, or calls for any sort of death or destruction to anyone?

So you don't think that destroying Israel is a desirable goal?

Seems like you took a page from GHook.

Is it a hard question to answer?

 

[del]

So you don't think that destroying Israel is a desirable goal?

Seems like you took a page from GHook.

Is it a hard question to answer?

no.

keeping a straight face is the hard part.

 

[P F Tinmore]

.

So Israel is not a state? That will come as a shock to the UN, and every other international body that recognizes the State of Israel.

You are a serious wanker and are headed to iggy in a hotrod with the top down.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

 

[The Rabbi]

.

So Israel is not a state? That will come as a shock to the UN, and every other international body that recognizes the State of Israel.

You are a serious wanker and are headed to iggy in a hotrod with the top down.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

How do I know you're not a mouth-breathing retard?
Actually you ARE a mouth breathing retard. Israel's borders are clearly defined. Does anyone think Tel Aviv is NOT in Israel?
I think you'll go join your bum chums Shogun and Freeman on Iggy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

.

So Israel is not a state? That will come as a shock to the UN, and every other international body that recognizes the State of Israel.

You are a serious wanker and are headed to iggy in a hotrod with the top down.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

How do I know you're not a mouth-breathing retard?
Actually you ARE a mouth breathing retard. Israel's borders are clearly defined. Does anyone think Tel Aviv is NOT in Israel?
I think you'll go join your bum chums Shogun and Freeman on Iggy.

Really? Where?

 

[CMike]

.

So Israel is not a state? That will come as a shock to the UN, and every other international body that recognizes the State of Israel.

You are a serious wanker and are headed to iggy in a hotrod with the top down.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

1) I don't care what 100 countries recognize or not

2) Israel has clearly defined borders

Here is a map.

Map of Israel

 

[P F Tinmore]

.

So Israel is not a state? That will come as a shock to the UN, and every other international body that recognizes the State of Israel.

You are a serious wanker and are headed to iggy in a hotrod with the top down.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

1) I don't care what 100 countries recognize or not

2) Israel has clearly defined borders

Here is a map.

Map of Israel

Where are the borders between Israel and Palestine. There are none on this map.

 

[CMike]

.

Political recognition is different from legal standing. About 100 countries recognize Palestine. About 80 recognize Israel.

So, where is Israel? It has no borders to define where it is? When Israel complains that rockets are fired into Israel, how do they know?

1) I don't care what 100 countries recognize or not

2) Israel has clearly defined borders

Here is a map.

Map of Israel

Where are the borders between Israel and Palestine. There are none on this map.

Obviously, because palestine doesn't exist. The arabs in judea and samaria are mainly from Jordan, however, they are living in Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

1) I don't care what 100 countries recognize or not

2) Israel has clearly defined borders

Here is a map.

Map of Israel

Where are the borders between Israel and Palestine. There are none on this map.

Obviously, because palestine doesn't exist. The arabs in judea and samaria are mainly from Jordan, however, they are living in Israel.

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour

The Balfour Declaration

"...the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.."

"...nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

In where?

 

[CMike]

You must have missed the memo. It's called Israel.

Can you find the borders between the sioux nation and the US? No. Because the country of sioux nation doesn't exist within the US.

 

[Sunni Man]

You must have missed the memo. It's called Israel.

Can you find the borders between the sioux nation and the US? No. Because the country of sioux nation doesn't exist within the US.

Actually, there is a Sioux Nation that has a border within the U.S in the Dakota's

Same as the Navajo, Apache, Zuni, and Hopi Nations, among others in New Mexico..

They all have their own Tribal Police, governments, courts, jails, license plates, etc.

 

[CMike]

You must have missed the memo. It's called Israel.

Can you find the borders between the sioux nation and the US? No. Because the country of sioux nation doesn't exist within the US.

Actually, there is a Sioux Nation that has a border within the U.S in the Dakota's

Same as the Navajo, Apache, Zuni, and Hopi Nations, among others in New Mexico..

They all have their own Tribal Police, governments, courts, jails, license plates, etc.

As does the PA

 

[P F Tinmore]

You must have missed the memo. It's called Israel.

Can you find the borders between the sioux nation and the US? No. Because the country of sioux nation doesn't exist within the US.

Israel was set up IN Palestine as Balfour and everyone else has stated. Palestine's borders have not changed. Israel has no borders. IOW Israel is still IN Palestine until such time as defined and recognized borders are determined.

Unless you have some documentation to the contrary.

 

[al Haq]

1. I support two-states, one Israel and one Palestine. As far as I am concerned, I can recognize Israel's "Jewish" character and Israelis should recognize Palestine's "non-Jewish" character.

Israel was established as a Jewish State.

However, the Palestinian Authority has never proposed a so-called “non-Jewish state.”

The majority of Palestinian people are not opposed to the concept of having lawful Jewish residents of Palestine. There is a long history of these communities living together in peace in Palestine - Muslim, Christian and Jew. As long as people were generally law-abiding, purchased their property in the legal way, and didn’t try to usurp the rights of their neighbors, they got along very well.

What Palestinians are absolutely opposed to (and what is one of the major causes of the continuation of the conflict) are illegal Israeli settlers who are funded, empowered, enabled and armed by the Israeli government (and protected by the Israeli military) in a systematic, orchestrated operation to appropriate and annex Palestinian property by force, as part of an ongoing attempt to expand Israel’s territory.

2. I oppose violence of any kind from and by anyone. I reject Hamas' participation in any Palestinian government without first agreeing to surrender all arms and to accept two-states as a "final" peace agreement. But I also reject allowing Israeli settlers to carry any weapons and believe Israelis must impose the same restrictions on them.

My response to this item will be a bit more complex, so I will return to discuss at length.

3. I can support some settlements remaining - given the reality of 42 years of time passing - in a dunam-for-dunam land exchange. If Ariel is 500 dunams with a lifeline from Israel, then Israel gives Palestine 500 dunams in exchange.

This idea naively assumes that all land is equivalent in value, dunum for dunum. As any small-town realtor can tell you, all property is not created equal.

Israel has appropriated some of the most valuable real estate in the West Bank - including key areas that capture water and agricultural resources. One of the latest proposals (made by former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert) offered some desert wasteland in the Negev in return. Obviously, this is not an equitable trade.

The Israeli government would very much like to say “We took some of the choicest areas that we want by force; now we’ll give you some crappy land that we don’t want and call it even.” This is not a fair negotiation. Any land exchange has to be a mutually-agreed upon negotiation, and take into consideration the actual value of land being offered.

4. Jerusalem should be a shared city and Palestinians should have an official presence in East Jerusalem. The Old City should be shared by both permitting open access to the city to all with a joint Palestinian-Israeli police presence.

I am not sure what “official presence” means. But both Israel and Palestinians can have their capitals in Jerusalem, as each predominate in part of the city. The demographics make it easy to see where the dividing line should be - East Jerusalem should be the Palestinian capital.

5. Palestinian refugees would give up their demand to return to pre-1948 homes and lands lost during the conflict with Israel. Instead, some could apply for family reunification through Israel and the remainder would be compensated through a fund created and maintained by the United States, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the United Nations.

Why should Palestinian refugees give up their demands for justice? International law says they must be allowed to return to their homes or be given just compensation. If Israel refuses to let these people to return to their property, then it’s up to Israel to cough up the money to pay for what it has taken from them. Why should the U.S. and the international community be expected to foot the bill?

6. I also think Israelis should find it in their hearts to show compassion and offer their apologies to Palestinians for the conflict.

An apology would seem a lot more sincere if accompanied by a just resolution for the victims.

7. I support creation of a similar fund to compensate those Jews from Arab lands who lost their homes and lands, too, when they fled.

Similarly to #5 - why should the international community pay restitution to Jews who claim their property was confiscated in Arab lands? Such claims are legal issues which must be taken up with the governments of the countries accused of confiscating land. All the Arab people of the world are not some single political entity, equally responsible for each and each other’s actions - neither legally nor morally. If someone wants to claim restitution for property in Morocco or Iraq or Egypt, this is a matter for those respective courts in those respective countries. There is no logical connection to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

8. I think the Wall should be torn down, or relocated to the new borders. I have no problem separating the two nations for a short duration to help rebuild confidence between our two people.

Of course! It’s completely illegal for Israel to build The Wall on land that does not even belong to Israel.

However, the whole purpose in building it on Palestinian land was not for “security,“ but to create “facts on the ground” for Israel’s territorial expansion. By walling off slices of land from the rest of the West Bank, Israel prevents Palestinian movement in and out of these areas - making it extremely difficult for people to travel to and from their villages to work or school, for farmers from getting to their fields, for any sort of economic connection to the rest of Palestine - and slowly strangles the communities inside these areas.

Once the Palestinians are squeezed out, the Israeli government's intention is to simply annex that land as Israeli territory and colonize it.

9. All political parties, Palestinian and Israelis, should eliminate languages denying each other's existence, and all maps should be reprinted so that Israeli maps finally show Palestine and Palestinian maps finally show Israel.

The Palestinian Authority (along with the international community) have officially recognized the 1967 borders since the Oslo accords in 1993. However, the Israeli government has refused to acknowledge its borders - Israel’s official maps say the borders are “to be determined” and refer to the West Bank and Gaza as "disputed territory."

(I hope Hanania was not proposing that past maps showing the borders throughout history should be destroyed. These are important parts of the historical record and offer keen insight into the progression of the conflict. They should certainly not be destroyed.)

As for “language,” both sides have political parties that persist in denying each other’s claims to the area. But only one side is occupying the other.

10. A subway system should be built linking the West Bank portion of the Palestine state to the Gaza Strip portion of the Palestine State. Palestine should be permitted to build a seaport access to strengthen its industry, and an airport to permit flights and too and from the Arab and Israeli world.

A subway, a train, whatever.

Palestine had an airport and a seaport. They were destroyed by Israel.

Note: I think the airport would need to serve flights that travel much further than merely “the Arab and Israeli world.” Not sure what Hanania meant to say.

11. I would urge the Arab World to renew their offer to normalize relations with Israel if Israel agrees to support the creation of a Palestinian State.

The offer has been standing for several years. (see: The Saudi initiative, launched in 2002, and unanimously approved by Arab leaders in 2007.)

12. And I would ask both countries to establish embassies in each other's country to address other problems.

Sure, why not?

13. While non-Jewish Palestinians would continue to live in Israel as citizens, Jews who wish to live in settlements surrendered by Israel could become Palestinian citizens and they should be recognized and treated equally.

The illegal settlements are just that - illegal. Palestinians have had their property appropriated for these settlements. The Israeli government has funded and supported the whole settlement enterprise in flagrant disregard for international law. The land must be returned to its rightful owners.

Just as it’s up to Israel to decide who may legally immigrate to Israel, it’s to Palestinians to decide who may legally immigrate to Palestine. None of the settlers immigrated legally, so they must go back to Israel.

14. If Jews want to live in Hebron, they should be allowed to live in Hebron and should be protected, just as non-Jews. In fact, for every Jewish individual seeking to live in Palestine, a Palestinian should be permitted to live in Israel. In fact, major Palestinian populations in Israel could be annexed into Palestine (like settlements).

"Refugees" are not equivalent to “settlers.“ Refugees wish to return to their own personal property. Israel’s settlers are squatters, living illegally on land taken by force.

Certain extremist elements in the Israeli government have already floated the idea that Israel should unilaterally transfer areas such as Umm al Fahm (which is predominantly Muslim and adjacent to the West Bank) to the Palestinian Authority, and then claim that a satisfactory trade has been made for some of Israel's larger illegal settlement blocs deep inside Palestinian territory. This is another attempt to not only legitimatize the illegal seizure and colonization of Palestinian land, but to manipulate Israel's demographics by stripping tens of thousands of Israeli Muslims of their citizenship. Ethnic cleansing again.

Again, it’s up to each country to determine whether to allow legal immigrants, which ones and how many.

However, international law is quite clear about refugees - they are entitled to either return to their property, or be paid fair compensation for their losses.

As far as land exchanges, this is definitely a possibility. Both the Israeli and Palestinian governments have indicated an interest in such negotiations. However, the decision cannot be made unilaterally, but must be freely negotiated.

15. Another concept is to have non-Jews living in Israel continue to live there but only vote in Palestinian elections, while Jews living in Palestine would only vote in Israeli elections. A special citizenship protection committee could be created to explore how to protect the rights of minorities in each state.

I don’t understand this idea. Muslims who are citizens of Israel should vote in Israeli elections. Jews who are citizens of Palestine should vote in Palestinian elections.

And of course the rights of legal citizens who are minorities should be protected.

16. Israel and Palestine should create joint-governing and security agencies working with the United States to monitor the peace, and establish an agency to pursue criminal acts of violence.

Sure, why not?