Best Football QB in the NFL

[007]

Compared to Jersey, Wisconsin would be a welcomed change politically.

I wouldn't say it's far left, they're pretty libertarian out there. I believe they had a libertarian governor not too long ago? Or maybe the libertarian finished second, I forget.

I know that Ron Paul did a lot better in their primaries than most others, so that should tell you something. Also, the Milwaukee GOP passed a resolution of no confidence in McCain as a conservative, which was a huge accomplishment for those grassrooters out there.

Anyway though, we're way off topic.

I have no confidence in mccain, and I wouldn't vote for the RINO on a bet.

I will vote for Brett Favre as one of the best quarter backs that's ever played though. He's got more consecutive starts than anybody else ever. He's thrown his share of interceptions, but he's thrown his share of Hail Marry T.D. passes too, and besides, I think he's a genuinely decent dude.

 

[Paulie]

I have no confidence in mccain, and I wouldn't vote for the RINO on a bet.

I will vote for Brett Favre as one of the best quarter backs that's ever played though. He's got more consecutive starts than anybody else ever. He's thrown his share of interceptions, but he's thrown his share of Hail Marry T.D. passes too, and besides, I think he's a genuinely decent dude.

I second that. He's one of the very FEW great QB's that I didn't despise simply for not being a Philadelphia Eagle. He commanded respect.

Nice segue.

 

[Gunny]

Rofl. You forgot the guys with all the numbers. Marino and Farve belong at the top of that list.

I disagree. They hold personal/individual records. Keeping in mind this thread is nothing more than an indicator of which era was each person's favorite, I wouldn't put them at the top of MY list simply because we cannot predict that they would enjoy the longevity they did in the era I mentioned because QBs were fair game then. They got hit and still had to play.

I doubt Marino would have lasted long, and while I'm not going to argue Favre isn't one tough SOB, I will argue he probably would not have survived as long back then as he has now when the league protects the QB.

 

[Toro]

I would put Marino and Favre at the top of my list. Favre was MVP three times in a row and was amazing at the top of his game.

Marino had no receivers, no running game and no defense yet set all sorts of records. Football is a team game more than any other, and the fact that they couldn't put together a team around him does not diminish his accomplishments.

 

[Gunny]

I would put Marino and Favre at the top of my list. Favre was MVP three times in a row and was amazing at the top of his game.

Marino had no receivers, no running game and no defense yet set all sorts of records. Football is a team game more than any other, and the fact that they couldn't put together a team around him does not diminish his accomplishments.

Which still says nothing about their longevity in a game where they weren't protected.

Marino had the best of receivers and a running game at one time. If Miami had any weakness during most of his career it was on defense.

Marino also had a propensity of playing a perfect game for 3 quarters, then blowing the 4th out his ass, especially in big games. If he tripped over his own shoelaces he was out. That tells me everytime he met Dick Butckus, Ray Nietschke, Chuck Bednarik or Jack Lambert, they'd be calling in the backup.

So he's definitely an "out," IMO.

Favre would be arguable. He's a big, tough dude. I'd have liked to have seen him play in the 60s - 70s. Bear in mind though, Bobby Douglass and Roman Gabriel were big, tough dudes and they didn't last a real long time because they had to take their hits. Players lasted about 10 years back then.

Again, both of their records, respectively, are at least partly due to a game that protects quarterbacks and allows them to play much longer. Marino could never have returned after his surgeries. The medical technology didn't exist then.

There are a lot of players from back then that not only would benefit from today's protection, but the medical technology as well. Joe Namath comes to mind first. He was awesome. He just couldn't move.

 

[Toro]

Marino had Clayton and Duper, but one of them - I think it was Duper - went away in free agency, did nothing and was cut a few years later. I can't remember a running back Marino had. He did have the Killer Bees defense, but for the most part, his defenses weren't good.

Marino set all sorts of records. During his time, there were literally hundreds of QBs in the NFL, and hundreds since he retired, yet very few could ever do what he did. What Marino did was remarkable.

You can only compare players during their era and how dominant they were during that era. You can say that a player would not have survived during a different era, but how do we know? Today, players are bigger, faster and stronger than before, and the offenses and defenses are more complex. Sure, the game was tougher but the athletes of today are far better athletes when compared to the players of yesteryear, and that is true of all sports. A guy like Dick Butkus was a great player in his time, but why do we assume that he was better back in his day versus today? The playbooks are 10 times greater today than during his time. The Butkuses of past eras put into today's game would almost certainly not been as dominant of an athlete today, unless he was trained and developed as a modern player. Likewise, a Marino or Favre may not have played in a time that was as physically tough as in the past, but how do we know they would not have developed to be tougher or smarter or quicker had they played back then? Nobody knows. That's why its futile to compare players of different eras. You can only compare how they did against their peers in the time in which they played.

 

[Reality]

Which still says nothing about their longevity in a game where they weren't protected.

Marino had the best of receivers and a running game at one time. If Miami had any weakness during most of his career it was on defense.

Marino also had a propensity of playing a perfect game for 3 quarters, then blowing the 4th out his ass, especially in big games. If he tripped over his own shoelaces he was out. That tells me everytime he met Dick Butckus, Ray Nietschke, Chuck Bednarik or Jack Lambert, they'd be calling in the backup.

So he's definitely an "out," IMO.

Favre would be arguable. He's a big, tough dude. I'd have liked to have seen him play in the 60s - 70s. Bear in mind though, Bobby Douglass and Roman Gabriel were big, tough dudes and they didn't last a real long time because they had to take their hits. Players lasted about 10 years back then.

Again, both of their records, respectively, are at least partly due to a game that protects quarterbacks and allows them to play much longer. Marino could never have returned after his surgeries. The medical technology didn't exist then.

There are a lot of players from back then that not only would benefit from today's protection, but the medical technology as well. Joe Namath comes to mind first. He was awesome. He just couldn't move.

Marino has the highest pass to handoff ratio of all time, last I heard the statistic. He did have a few terrific receivers but never really had a running game. Their D was up and down through his career. The man was sacked 12 times one year. Partially his line, partially the man delivered the ball more quickly than probably anyone who has ever played the game.

I don't like the collective argument when talking about QBs. We should be talking about individual accomplishments because we are talking about individuals, not teams.

Protecting QBs is why playcalling has gone from 60/40 running to 60/40 passing. Thank god they protect qbs. I can only take so many 2 yd rushing plays.

 

[jackmcmanus21]

I still have to go with Tom Brady as the guy who'd be the QB on my team. The titles speak for themselves without a really dominant reciever.

 

[Gunny]

Marino had Clayton and Duper, but one of them - I think it was Duper - went away in free agency, did nothing and was cut a few years later. I can't remember a running back Marino had. He did have the Killer Bees defense, but for the most part, his defenses weren't good.

Marino set all sorts of records. During his time, there were literally hundreds of QBs in the NFL, and hundreds since he retired, yet very few could ever do what he did. What Marino did was remarkable.

You can only compare players during their era and how dominant they were during that era. You can say that a player would not have survived during a different era, but how do we know? Today, players are bigger, faster and stronger than before, and the offenses and defenses are more complex. Sure, the game was tougher but the athletes of today are far better athletes when compared to the players of yesteryear, and that is true of all sports. A guy like Dick Butkus was a great player in his time, but why do we assume that he was better back in his day versus today? The playbooks are 10 times greater today than during his time. The Butkuses of past eras put into today's game would almost certainly not been as dominant of an athlete today, unless he was trained and developed as a modern player. Likewise, a Marino or Favre may not have played in a time that was as physically tough as in the past, but how do we know they would not have developed to be tougher or smarter or quicker had they played back then? Nobody knows. That's why its futile to compare players of different eras. You can only compare how they did against their peers in the time in which they played.

You're making a relativist argument and ignoring the fact I pointed out this is nothing more than a "poll" on which era posters were at the height of their being football fans.

You're also so hasty to defend Marino and Favre, you didn't read what I said. I didn't knock Favre at all. I said part of his numbers is due to longevity -- a longevity QBs and players in general didn't enjoy back then. That's pretty easy to predict. He might be tough enough to have played back then, but the beating he would have taken would have been far more brutal and he would more than likely have lasted no longer than any other.

Marino was slow coming out of the chute, no matter WHAT era you try to stick him in. There's no developing slow feet. He compensated for that with one of if not the quickest release in the game.

Again, the variable that QBs were not protected back then applies and Marino, unlike Favre, was NOT tough.

I can easily make a comparison. I watched the game then, and until the past couple of years, watched it throughout the years. You can claim payers are better athletes and I'll respond with that doesn't make them better football players.

 

[Gunny]

Marino has the highest pass to handoff ratio of all time, last I heard the statistic. He did have a few terrific receivers but never really had a running game. Their D was up and down through his career. The man was sacked 12 times one year. Partially his line, partially the man delivered the ball more quickly than probably anyone who has ever played the game.

I don't like the collective argument when talking about QBs. We should be talking about individual accomplishments because we are talking about individuals, not teams.

Protecting QBs is why playcalling has gone from 60/40 running to 60/40 passing. Thank god they protect qbs. I can only take so many 2 yd rushing plays.

My whole point is that you cannot fairly compare individual accomplishments. The entire game is different than it used to be. The rules are so loaded in favor of the offense it's just a matter of being able to hit where you throw. In that, I give credit where it's due. I just don't consider either of those two -- Marino and Favre -- two of the best QBs I've ever seen play, and I consider personal statistics relative to the eras in which the games were played, but not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

 

[Toro]

Gunny

I agree with you. Its difficult to compare athletes of different eras, especially when the rules change so much over the years, like they do in football.

Also, there is natural tendency by fans to assume that whomever was the best of an era is the best of all-time because fans only know what they have seen, and if they haven't seen past greats, how would they know? That's one reason why they use statistics to make comparisons.

 

[Ninja]

I just have to ask Dirt... WHO and WHAT is that dude dancing in you sig line?

Keith Jardine.

Here he is falling victim to the animalistic brutality of Wanderlei Silva:

 

[Gunny]

Gunny

I agree with you. Its difficult to compare athletes of different eras, especially when the rules change so much over the years, like they do in football.

Also, there is natural tendency by fans to assume that whomever was the best of an era is the best of all-time because fans only know what they have seen, and if they haven't seen past greats, how would they know? That's one reason why they use statistics to make comparisons.

And again, my argument is that the statistical comparisons are misleading. During the 60s and 70s, the running game dominated the NFL. The emphasis wasn't on passing. And again, the rules did not favor the offense as they do now. The QB was fair game, and receivers could be flattened at the line of scrimmage.

You cannot compare Marino to Johnny Unitas. Unitas was the most prolific passer of the 60's - early 70s. There was no in the grasp. There was no flag for being hit after releasing the ball. Jethro Pugh and Pat Toomay of the Dallas Cowboys broke his ribs in the 3rd quarter of Superbowl IV. After he released the ball.

Marino wore a flak jacket and two steel knee braces and two steel ankle braces. The defensive linemen of the 70s would have flat killed him.

A defender could basically knock a receiver on his ass at the line. There were no "timing patterns." There couldn't be. Your guy was like as not getting jammed at the line and wouldn't be anywhere near where he was supposed to.

How can you compare the statistics of a passer who never had to face those obstacles to his passing game? I don't think you can and be fair.

 

[JimH52]

Marino was one of the great "pure" passers as I term them. No one was better at a drop back and pass play. He was smart and had incredible touch. It is to bad he didn't win a Super Bowl.

Talks about irony? Marino doesn't win a SB and the SB was probaby the best game Doug Williams played in his career. Go figure?

 

[Gunny]

Marino was one of the great "pure" passers as I term them. No one was better at a drop back and pass play. He was smart and had incredible touch. It is to bad he didn't win a Super Bowl.

Talks about irony? Marino doesn't win a SB and the SB was probaby the best game Doug Williams played in his career. Go figure?

Marino was arguably the best pure passer to play. I don't think anyone has had a release as quick as his AND been able to hit with the accuracy he did.

My biggest problem with Marino is he would be absolutely brilliant for 3 quarters. But if the game was on the line in the line in the 4th he would suddenly forget there were 10 other guys out there playing with him and try to carry the whole team on himself and he would invariably screw up and give the ball away.

At the individual level, no doubt he was one of the best. At the same time, I cannot see judging them based solely on individual stats because it is not an individual game. It's a team sport. Especially in passing. A passer is only as good as his receivers. Yes, he has to get the ball there, but they have to catch it.

 

[JimH52]

Good points. I am not a Redskins fan but Sonny Jurgeson also had an incredibly past release. He played when I was a kid and I remembered wondering how a man with a pot gut could still sling the ball the way he did. He and Kilmer looked like Budda dolls behind center. Sonny threw the bullet and Billy thre lame ducks.

 

[Gunny]

Good points. I am not a Redskins fan but Sonny Jurgeson also had an incredibly past release. He played when I was a kid and I remembered wondering how a man with a pot gut could still sling the ball the way he did. He and Kilmer looked like Budda dolls behind center. Sonny threw the bullet and Billy thre lame ducks.

Sonny Jurgensen most certainly was no slouch. He had injury problem throughout his career. Kilmer was George Allen's favorite because he played a more conservative game. The kid that lived downstairs from me in 70-71 in Capitol Heights, MD thought Jurgensen was the Second Coming right after Boog Powell.

 

[Toro]

NFL coaches pick Brady over Manning.

ProFootballTalk.com - MOST COACHES PREFER BRADY TO MANNING

 

[Gunny]

NFL coaches pick Brady over Manning.

ProFootballTalk.com - MOST COACHES PREFER BRADY TO MANNING

Does that make him a better quarterback? Or easier to coach? Coaches have biased opinions too.

I live in Texas. I'll take either one.

 

[JimH52]

NFL coaches pick Brady over Manning.

ProFootballTalk.com - MOST COACHES PREFER BRADY TO MANNING

Does he come with a Cam?