Best Economic Stimulus

[editec]

I wonder if the industry has made any technological advances since the 60's? It all depends on the infastructure, we could be producing oil in a lot of offshore drilling in as little time as 1 to 2 years.

A reasonable question.

Undoubtably.

Still the experts in the oil industry tell us it takes years to get these wells on line from point zero

They are not liberals, seeking to prevent drilling, they are the people who actually do it and in whose interests it is to begin drilling immediately.

 

[jreeves]

A reasonable question.

Undoubtably.

Still the experts in the oil industry tell us it takes years to get these wells on line from point zero

They are not liberals, seeking to prevent drilling, they are the people who actually do it and in whose interests it is to begin drilling immediately.

1 to 2 years as long as the infrastructure is in place. 3 to 4 without the infrastructure.....

Plus what effect does the promise of drilling have on future's prices?

 

[jreeves]

So, basically, fuck all those old people? Yeah, fuck 'em. And fuck the poor too. Who cares, right? Who cares about inequality of wealth anyway? So what if a gigantic underclass emerges that begins to destroy the fabric of society? So what if that's what it's like in most underdeveloped countries? Yeah, FUCK social security.

No, you support the old people of today without lying about the promise to tommorow's generation of seniors. The CBO, SS's board of trustees have stated it's unsustainable.

 

[jreeves]

So, basically, fuck all those old people? Yeah, fuck 'em. And fuck the poor too. Who cares, right? Who cares about inequality of wealth anyway? So what if a gigantic underclass emerges that begins to destroy the fabric of society? So what if that's what it's like in most underdeveloped countries? Yeah, FUCK social security.

What is really destroying the social fabric, requiring personal responsibility or spending trillions of dollars to solve a problem that only exasperates the problem?

 

[Chris]

Here's an idea, how about instead of appeasing the oil execs and GM, how about we completely break our dependence of oil from the middle east and become a self sustaining nation? How about electric cars. Or cars that produce water vapor? Why drill when we have the technology to do better that that? "I want to put a man on the moon in ten years!" I want to break free from oil in ten years!

If we had real leadership this is what would happen.....a Project for American Energy Independence.

Hopefully, President Obama will move us in that direction.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Here's an idea, how about instead of appeasing the oil execs and GM, how about we completely break our dependence of oil from the middle east and become a self sustaining nation? How about electric cars. Or cars that produce water vapor? Why drill when we have the technology to do better that that? "I want to put a man on the moon in ten years!" I want to break free from oil in ten years!

That's all fine and well but it will take time to get there. We have to have a bridge. One of those are hybrid cars. Still consume gasoline but not as much. More fuel effecient traditional cars help, too. Propane power trucks could help things. Wind turbines, new solar plants, new nuclear plants, replace oil fired plants with coal fired plants, etc....

Can't gut the economy in the move, we have to build a workable bridge and those are all "bridge" technologies that also gradually reduce oil usage

 

[Zoomie1980]

Well, the problem with calculating like that is that you're using your own cost of health insurance and multiplying it. I can't tell for sure, but I'm almost 100% certain that you'd be paying significantly less than $4000 a year in a universal system.

Another problem is that there's dozens of ways to set up a national health care system. I'm not sure how it works exactly in European countries, but at least here, Health Care is jointly medical insurance and pensions plan, and the monthly "allocation" is shared three-way by employee, employer, and government [there's also private doctors, clinics and hospitals, for those who can afford it, but the quality isn't MUCH higher]. I think in other countries it might be totally free and paid for with taxes. And there's other ones. Can't say I'm an expert on the subject. But what I still fail to see any evidence of is why the cost would be so much more inexorbitantly higher in the US and in Germany or France or Japan. I mean, sure, the US has 300m people, but those countries combined have a similar population (like 260m) and similar GDP (13 trillion to around 10-11 trillion). More than welcome to show me, if there's any studies on the issue or any page that explains why the cost would be that much higher in the US.

The only POSSIBLE way Universal medine is cheaper per person is you put major price controls on drugs and keep hospitals from making investments in cutting edge technology and then cap payments to doctors. What inevitably happens in that structure is kiss good bye to drug breakthroughs as you choke off R&D money. Med students now opt for other professions that pay better and take less work. In general, as he says, quality goes to hell in a hurry. You take the last major financer of R&D out of the picture in the world and there goes medical progress right along with it.

 

[Zoomie1980]

The best economic times come when everyone shares in the great wealth of this nation. That happened after FDR and continued to the social darwinism of Reagan began the destruction of the middle class.


"The middle class is a new invention of liberal democracies, the direct result of governments defining the rules of the game of business. It is, quite simply, an artifact of government regulation of markets and tax laws." Thom Hartmann

Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

Really. FDR didn't do a damned thing. Depression was about as bad at the outbreak of WWII as it during it's height in 1932. Only massive military spending got the country working again, and the largely ending of most New Deal programs during and immediately after WWII during the deep recession of 1946 and reviving for free market economic systems of the 1950's that got things going again. And the substantial curtailing of the welfare state in the 1980's, the rock solid defending of a company's right to fire buy busting up Patco, and added to by Clinton's ending of welfare as a life long entitlement that lead to longest era of unbroken prosperity in modern history.

 

[jreeves]

If we had real leadership this is what would happen.....a Project for American Energy Independence.

Hopefully, President Obama will move us in that direction.

Yet Obama voted in support of Bush's 2005 energy policy, while Mccain voted against it.

 

[Charles_Main]

Yet Obama voted in support of Bush's 2005 energy policy, while Mccain voted against it.

Yep, exactly. I love how so many people are ready to elect the most inexsperienced Cadidate to run since GW. We all know how he worked out. Seems just mindless to me.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Yep, exactly. I love how so many people are ready to elect the most inexsperienced Cadidate to run since GW. We all know how he worked out. Seems just mindless to me.

Well I know I would have to restructure some investments to avoid his inevitable tax increases as much as possible.

And that's one thing most people do not understand. The "wealthy" (have yet to figure out just who that is) but the really wealthy will avoid taxes anywhere and shelter money offshore. I'd rather have those people invest HERE and keep their money HERE where it does good work for everyone. Raise taxes and that money goes to work somewhere else.

 

[Chris]

Yep, exactly. I love how so many people are ready to elect the most inexsperienced Cadidate to run since GW. We all know how he worked out. Seems just mindless to me.

Cheney was experienced. Rumsfeld was experienced. How'd that work out?

 

[Chris]

The only POSSIBLE way Universal medine is cheaper per person is you put major price controls on drugs and keep hospitals from making investments in cutting edge technology and then cap payments to doctors. What inevitably happens in that structure is kiss good bye to drug breakthroughs as you choke off R&D money. Med students now opt for other professions that pay better and take less work. In general, as he says, quality goes to hell in a hurry. You take the last major financer of R&D out of the picture in the world and there goes medical progress right along with it.

Wrong. Universities like Harvard etc. will still be doing research and Big Pharma will still make money, only not as much. You really need to do some research. This article is a good start...

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

 

[jreeves]

Cheney was experienced. Rumsfeld was experienced. How'd that work out?

Oh ok I thought Bush was the President, we are all mistaken I guess. But I am sure you will have a response that will say Cheney is the President or some partisan hackmanship included.

 

[jreeves]

Wrong. Universities like Harvard etc. will still be doing research and Big Pharma will still make money, only not as much. You really need to do some research. This article is a good start...

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

Hmm...where in your post does it state that Canada is the leader in medical advancements? Where does it state that medical research dollars won't dry up?

Deflection I notice is your best weapon...