BEST argument I've ever heard from a left winger!

[Nic_Driver]

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

Hey ReallyFuckingStupid, tell us your idea of hiring 1 million + people to build railroads and windmills.

Come on man, do it for us!

I love ideas that a 8 year old could think of, I really do… It’s even more fun trying to tell them why it won’t work and would if anything make things a lot worse, as they just struggle to understand.

He didn't make a statement, he asked a question...and you have the nerve to comment on someone else’s intelligence?

Typical neo-con.

 

[freedombecki]

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

Well, in your case, I'd say introspection is presently impossible, and you don't have to tell me twice that the Washington earthquake the other day fell along BUSH's FAULT!

Mwahahahaha

 

[thereisnospoon]

Nope. Not at all. I want to hear which part you all think is impossible.

wow
ok

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? You can't make people work.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? Not everyone can shovel, not everyone can work in an office setting.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls?
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this?


seriously, you have to be dumb on an epic level to think this might work.

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? Simple. I'll cut off their unemployment and tell them if they want money they have to get a job. You know, I'll do what all you good conservatives want us to do.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? I don't plan to. As I already showed, we only need to find jobs for 3% of the workforce that is currently looking. 3% can shovel and/or work in an office.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls? What inflation? We run over a trillion a year in deficits now and there is no runaway inflation. Adding $150B won't cause "VAST inflation".
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this? No one. I'll borrow it. 2% interest on the 10-year bond is ridiculously cheap. Take advantage of it and get the economy growing. We can grow our way out of the added debt.

Now this is amusing. First we're re -employing 13 million who are unemployment of while ignoring the millions working part time and those who've stopped looking for work and NOT collecting, to just 2% of the workforce..Then the federal government is supposed to hire all these people, offer benefits and federal union scale wages plus benefits. To "pay" for this the federal reserve is supposed to simply "print" more currency with nothing to back it up except air.
THIS is supposed to improve the economy. Cut out the private sector and crate millions of new government jobs? Gee why not just pay them in company scrip like the WPA did for those who built Hoover Dam and other projects?
This is perhaps the worst idea offered to stimulate the economy since the stimulus.
Perhaps the answer is for government to back off, get the hell out of the way of the private sector ,stop threatening stop over regulating and send the private sector a message that it will not be punished for doing what it does best. That is expand and create new business and thus employ more workers.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How 'bout the RW lets some jobs bills pass an sthu with the fearmongering? That would work too...

Which jobs bills are those?
The only thing government should do is assure business that draconian regulations( not all regulations) and higher taxes on business will not materialize. Government must offer private business the opportunity to expand and create so that more people can be brought into the workforce. Nothing government has done or can do can create a productive economy stimulate job creation.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That means there is no measure to what you must accomplish in said job, no motivation to produce. If that job paid anything then there would suddenly be ZERO reason to go work at a McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Janitorial jobs or a million other low wage jobs. The government job would be better and also have the upside of not having to actually work.

False assumption there. You are assuming that because someone works for the government they have no incentive to work hard or produce. This assumes all workers are inherently lazy, which they aren't, and that all workers will freely jeopardize being fired, which they won't. Some might, sure, but to assume ALL will behave this way is not backed by reality.

This causes a vicious cycle as all non government jobs would need to raise the pay to keep anyone causing the prices of all goods to increase again causing the government jobs wages to be to little to accomplish anything forcing them to increase the pay further forcing the private sector to....

It is a circle eventually causing zero production in a society where everyone is employed by the government and no one actually does anything. You cannot employ 100% of the population and you cannot eliminate poverty.

This would happen with 0% unemployment, yes, but as I already said, that was not my target nor should be our target, because of the problems you just mentioned. At 6%, there are still people looking and it allows for mobility between jobs so yes, someone could leave McD's to go work for the Fed, but then there are still people looking for work who would then go to McD's to fill that open spot. I don't see there being any upward pressure on wages in this scenario.

There is merit to TEMPORARY government employment in times of bad economic stress but the problem is in these modern times there is no temporary about it. We just keep INCREASING. At some point the government becomes to bloated to increase anything.

Agreed. Sadly, the former president missed his opportunity to downsize the government during a time of economic growth. That sucks, but we have what we have now and have to work with what we have now. When unemployment is under 6%, I will be the first person here on these boards talking about shrinking the government and balancing the budget. But that is not today.

Once a federal workers becomes a vested full time employee having made it through their probationary period is it virtually impossible to terminate their employment.

 

[yidnar]

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

..........DAMN!!! this is the problem we are facing!! millions of idiots like....... Must Be Stupid !!

 

[Bfgrn]

Don't hurt yourself with those nifty graphics.. First one only shows debt "HELD BY THE PUBLIC". Only about 1/2 the debt today is "held by the public"..

And the Second chart can't discriminate between New Deal spending and WW2 spending so it's virtually useless..

So what was your point????

The debt held by the public is the proper construct. EVERY reputable economist uses it.

Even conservative economists...

The U.S. blends two kinds of debt, and some economists say that makes little sense. Moreover, we don't even have a good way of paying back one of those types of debt. More on that later.

The first type of debt is what the government owes to outside bondholders: individuals, pension funds, other groups and foreign governments. The second type is a sizable amount of intra-governmental debt, or obligations of the Treasury Department to various trust funds — basically what we owe ourselves.

Alex Brill, an economist with the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative research center in Washington, said that counting external and internal debt together didn't make economic sense and blurred the real fiscal situation the U.S. faces.

"Not all of the debt is the same, and it doesn't all matter the same," Brill said. "What really matters is debt held by the public."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can view GDP growth on a yearly basis.

FDR and the New Deal created the LARGEST increase in GDP in American history.

Gross Domestic Product (GDP)

Percent change from preceding period

GDP percent change based on current dollars


1930 -12.0
1931 -16.1
1932 -23.2
1933 -3.9
1934 17.0 <-----FDR's FIRST budget year.
1935 11.1
1936 14.3
1937 9.7
1938 -6.3
1939 7.0
1940 10.0
1941 25.0
1942 27.7
1943 22.7
1944 10.7
1945 1.5 <-----FDR dies.

FDR had his own right wing regressives to contend with, HERE is where that led.

The Recession of 1937–1938 was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States. Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn, but agree that government austerity reversed the recovery. wiki

The hand-waving about who holds debt doesn't interest me. Your graphic is ignoring that in Truman's day -- most US DEBT WAS held publically. Today you're leaving 1/2 of it out because the document came out of the Obama Whitehouse and their clever army of accounting nimrods left out ALL THE DEBT held by foreigners.

It's not hard to post a 50% gain in GDP in a year or two after a major recession.. Especially when you couch it as "percent change from previous period".. It's a math trick used all the time to impress the chicks.
If the GDP loses 50% it's value at the min dip than it takes 100% "growth" to get back to normal.

Gee, the stock market recovered 75% between 2008 low and Jan 2010.. What a dynamo of a recovery eh???

There is no 'clever' going on. Those historical tables were the same during the Bush years.

If you want to discuss 'clever' or dishonest, Bush never included either war in his budget. Obama DOES include the wars in his...

From 1933 through 1936 the New Deal produced double-digit annual growth in GDP, production, after-tax income and private investment, with strong consumer spending and job growth exceeding their peaks in the 1929 bubble.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

How 'bout the RW lets some jobs bills pass an sthu with the fearmongering? That would work too...

Which jobs bills are those?
The only thing government should do is assure business that draconian regulations( not all regulations) and higher taxes on business will not materialize. Government must offer private business the opportunity to expand and create so that more people can be brought into the workforce. Nothing government has done or can do can create a productive economy stimulate job creation.

Duh. For example (AGAIN):

31 Bills Republicans Have Blocked in 2010
That was a good start. Yet, despite the marked improvement, Republicans continued to block dozens of job creation, business and economic development, and consumer ...
http://www.dailykos.com/.../27/91404...ocked-in-2010-
Small Business Jobs Bill BLOCKED By GOP
WASHINGTON -- Perhaps the last best hope of Democrats to pass legislation aimed at creating jobs before the November elections seemed to be crumbling in ...
Small Business Jobs Bill BLOCKED By GOP
Tax, jobs bill blocked in Senate
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Democratic bill to extend jobless benefits and raise taxes on investment fund managers failed a key vote in the Senate on Thursday ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...s-congress-tax...
GOP Stops Democratic Job Bills
With the clock winding down for Democrats’ control of Congress, many of them are trying to jam through bills at the last minute. But Republicans won’t stand for ...
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/j...blicans-block/...
Jobs Bill Blocked in U.S. Senate Amid Complaints Over Cost
Senator Max Baucus is expected to present a less expensive plan to substitute the blocked jobs bill.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...blocked-in-u-s...

 

[Avorysuds]

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

Hey ReallyFuckingStupid, tell us your idea of hiring 1 million + people to build railroads and windmills.

Come on man, do it for us!

I love ideas that a 8 year old could think of, I really do… It’s even more fun trying to tell them why it won’t work and would if anything make things a lot worse, as they just struggle to understand.

He didn't make a statement, he asked a question...and you have the nerve to comment on someone else’s intelligence?

Typical neo-con.

Oooooo! Burn!!!! I'm a Neocon! Can I get a link plz?

Oh btw DBS actually made the statements that we could just hire millions of people to build windmills and install high speed railroads in another thread. Of course if I bring that up in a thread about Government being able to hire everyone just to give them a paycheck I'm prolly off topic, righ?

So tell me again why I’m a fucking neocon new guy?

lol@u btw.

Hey vote for me, I’ll just give everyone a million bucks, that will LAUNCH the economy!

 

[daveman]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Don't you just love the old rightwing trick, invent a make-believe liberal who's stupid, and then try to make a point off it?

It never gets old.

"Ashamed Republican" Is An Embarrassed Democrat (Wizbang)

 

[Claudette]

wow
ok

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? You can't make people work.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? Not everyone can shovel, not everyone can work in an office setting.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls?
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this?


seriously, you have to be dumb on an epic level to think this might work.

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? Simple. I'll cut off their unemployment and tell them if they want money they have to get a job. You know, I'll do what all you good conservatives want us to do.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? I don't plan to. As I already showed, we only need to find jobs for 3% of the workforce that is currently looking. 3% can shovel and/or work in an office.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls? What inflation? We run over a trillion a year in deficits now and there is no runaway inflation. Adding $150B won't cause "VAST inflation".
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this? No one. I'll borrow it. 2% interest on the 10-year bond is ridiculously cheap. Take advantage of it and get the economy growing. We can grow our way out of the added debt.

Now this is amusing. First we're re -employing 13 million who are unemployment of while ignoring the millions working part time and those who've stopped looking for work and NOT collecting, to just 2% of the workforce..Then the federal government is supposed to hire all these people, offer benefits and federal union scale wages plus benefits. To "pay" for this the federal reserve is supposed to simply "print" more currency with nothing to back it up except air.
THIS is supposed to improve the economy. Cut out the private sector and crate millions of new government jobs? Gee why not just pay them in company scrip like the WPA did for those who built Hoover Dam and other projects?
This is perhaps the worst idea offered to stimulate the economy since the stimulus.
Perhaps the answer is for government to back off, get the hell out of the way of the private sector ,stop threatening stop over regulating and send the private sector a message that it will not be punished for doing what it does best. That is expand and create new business and thus employ more workers.

Amen Brother.

 

[BoycottTheday]

On the bright side,

goat herders get mandated nice beds now

due to the regulation mad Oman.

 

[blastoff]

Clearly, we've had our first meeting engagement with the Liberal Intellectual Elite.

Two years ago I suggested that Obama make every unemployed person some new Czar.

Um...duh. Ever stop to think sooner or later he'll run out of unemployed people?

 

[bucs90]

So....time for Obama to hire 30 million people and print the money to pay them 30,000 a year each?

Lets see.......hire 30,000,000 people. Pay each 30,000 a year. So thats $900,000,000,000.

What? $900 billion??? Obama already grew the debt $4 trillion??? So, LITERALLY, if Obama had hired all 30,000,000 unemployed people in America for 4 years at $30K a year, thats what we would've spent roughly.

 

[daveman]

So....time for Obama to hire 30 million people and print the money to pay them 30,000 a year each?

Lets see.......hire 30,000,000 people. Pay each 30,000 a year. So thats $900,000,000,000.

What? $900 billion??? Obama already grew the debt $4 trillion??? So, LITERALLY, if Obama had hired all 30,000,000 unemployed people in America for 4 years at $30K a year, thats what we would've spent roughly.

But that wouldn't have sufficiently rewarded Democrat special interest groups.

What, USMB lefties? Did you really think the stimulus was about helping the economy?

Suckers!!

 

[FA_Q2]

So....time for Obama to hire 30 million people and print the money to pay them 30,000 a year each?

Lets see.......hire 30,000,000 people. Pay each 30,000 a year. So thats $900,000,000,000.

What? $900 billion??? Obama already grew the debt $4 trillion??? So, LITERALLY, if Obama had hired all 30,000,000 unemployed people in America for 4 years at $30K a year, thats what we would've spent roughly.

But that wouldn't have sufficiently rewarded Democrat special interest groups.

What, USMB lefties? Did you really think the stimulus was about helping the economy?

Suckers!!

Also, don't forget that a job is not just the cost of the employee. There is the costs of the job as well like materials, work space, planning ect. Those costs are usually the asinine ones in a government project anyway. In the civilian world, your largest expense is usually your labor. In government it tends to be the planning, facility or materials.

 

[Freedomlover]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Of course, inflation would be so high that the money the government would print, plus what real wage earners make, would be worth absolutey nothing. We would be like what Germany was after World War One, which gave rise to Hitler. Is that what you want America to be like?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Ever hear of the New Deal and work programs like the WPA? It helped lift America out of the depression.

But more importantly, it gave the unemployed a job to feed their families.

You right wingers always forget about families, and human beings. During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

The government hired about 60 per cent of the unemployed in public works and conservation projects that planted a billion trees, saved the whooping crane, modernized rural America, and built such diverse projects as the Cathedral of Learning in Pittsburgh, the Montana state capitol, much of the Chicago lakefront, New York's Lincoln Tunnel and Triborough Bridge complex, the Tennessee Valley Authority and the aircraft carriers Enterprise and Yorktown.

It also built or renovated 2,500 hospitals, 45,000 schools, 13,000 parks and playgrounds, 7,800 bridges, 700,000 miles of roads, and a thousand airfields. And it employed 50,000 teachers, rebuilt the country's entire rural school system, and hired 3,000 writers, musicians, sculptors and painters.

In other words, millions of men and women earned a living wage and self-respect and contributed mightily to the national infrastructure.

That's ridiculous the WPA did nothing but keep people off the streets and doing something useful while there was nothing else to do. It had nothing to do with ending the depression. Not even a little bit.

 

[editec]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Sounds like a fantasy friend to me, but if you say so, then who am I to argue when you tell me that you have a friend who is completely and utterly wrong about macroeconomics?

 

[Liability]

* * * *

"Ashamed Republican" Is An Embarrassed Democrat (Wizbang)

That is very interesting.

The liberals have no shame.

And how stupid the fake Republican has to be not to even consider the possibility that, in this day and age, he would be promptly exposed as the liberal Democrat piece of shit fraud he really is.