BEST argument I've ever heard from a left winger!

[Two Thumbs]

Wanna know what's funny?

I thought this would be a thread full of cons joking it up for some kicks and some liberals poking fun at the fact no one can be this dumb.

Turns out, I had a far to high opinion of the left. [sans a few of them]


Hell, I thought bucs would tell us he made it up.

 

[Missourian]

On a positive note your friend sounds like one of the smart ones.

This made me LOL.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

All of it.
Anyone who agrees with this kind of thing is out of touch with reality.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

All of it.
Anyone who agrees with this kind of thing is out of touch with reality.

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You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
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Bummer

 

[Nosmo King]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Your friend isn't a Liberal. He's a moron.

If I had a friend who was dense enough to suggest that all we have to do is dissolve the federal government and turn everything over to Wall Street and the so-called "Free" Market and soon all out problems would be solved, I wouldn't call him a Conservative! I'd call him a moron, then I'd call him a cab to take him to the asylum.


If I had a friend who said that the earth is only 4,000 years old and mankind was placed here whole as we are today like a potted geranium, I wouldn't call him a Conservative, I'd call him nuts!

If I had a friend who said the government should stay out of people's personal lives except if that person had an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy or if that person was homosexual and wanted to marry their homosexual lover, I wouldn't call him nuts or a cab for the loony bin. I'd call him a Conservative. Weird, huh?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Ever hear of the New Deal and work programs like the WPA? It helped lift America out of the depression.

But more importantly, it gave the unemployed a job to feed their families.

You right wingers always forget about families, and human beings. During the Great Depression conservatives raised objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

The government hired about 60 per cent of the unemployed in public works and conservation projects that planted a billion trees, saved the whooping crane, modernized rural America, and built such diverse projects as the Cathedral of Learning in Pittsburgh, the Montana state capitol, much of the Chicago lakefront, New York's Lincoln Tunnel and Triborough Bridge complex, the Tennessee Valley Authority and the aircraft carriers Enterprise and Yorktown.

It also built or renovated 2,500 hospitals, 45,000 schools, 13,000 parks and playgrounds, 7,800 bridges, 700,000 miles of roads, and a thousand airfields. And it employed 50,000 teachers, rebuilt the country's entire rural school system, and hired 3,000 writers, musicians, sculptors and painters.

In other words, millions of men and women earned a living wage and self-respect and contributed mightily to the national infrastructure.

Here's an idea.....Start your own business then hire 5 people. Pay them all $35,000 per year plus medical insurance plus pension....Get back to us when you find out how easy that is.
The WPA was TEMPORARY....1935 to 1943.
At it's peak the total expenditure never exceeded 6.7% of GDP.
The federal government today spends three times that.
Just where in God's name do you think the money will come from to pay for 13.6 million unemployed and the millions of those working part time who are not counted because they are not collecting unemployment

 

[Two Thumbs]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Your friend isn't a Liberal. He's a moron.

If I had a friend who was dense enough to suggest that all we have to do is dissolve the federal government and turn everything over to Wall Street and the so-called "Free" Market and soon all out problems would be solved, I wouldn't call him a Conservative! I'd call him a moron, then I'd call him a cab to take him to the asylum.

If I had a friend who said that the earth is only 4,000 years old and mankind was placed here whole as we are today like a potted geranium, I wouldn't call him a Conservative, I'd call him nuts!

If I had a friend who said the government should stay out of people's personal lives except if that person had an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy or if that person was homosexual and wanted to marry their homosexual lover, I wouldn't call him nuts or a cab for the loony bin. I'd call him a Conservative. Weird, huh?

[channeling my inner dontbestupid]

That would clearly work as nothing could possibly go wrong.

Now explain in vast detail why you think this is impossible. with links and preatty pics for me to look at.

[ouch! pulled something]

 

[Nosmo King]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

Your friend isn't a Liberal. He's a moron.

If I had a friend who was dense enough to suggest that all we have to do is dissolve the federal government and turn everything over to Wall Street and the so-called "Free" Market and soon all out problems would be solved, I wouldn't call him a Conservative! I'd call him a moron, then I'd call him a cab to take him to the asylum.

If I had a friend who said that the earth is only 4,000 years old and mankind was placed here whole as we are today like a potted geranium, I wouldn't call him a Conservative, I'd call him nuts!

If I had a friend who said the government should stay out of people's personal lives except if that person had an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy or if that person was homosexual and wanted to marry their homosexual lover, I wouldn't call him nuts or a cab for the loony bin. I'd call him a Conservative. Weird, huh?

[channeling my inner dontbestupid]

That would clearly work as nothing could possibly go wrong.

Now explain in vast detail why you think this is impossible. with links and preatty pics for me to look at.

[ouch! pulled something]

If we've learned anything in the past few years, we've learned that Wall Street is populated by the most scrupulous, honest, hard working, beneficent, compassionate humans our species has to offer! Who wouldn't trust the future of their very children to the powerful, forward thinking honest brokers of Bear Sterns or AIG?

That would clearly work as nothing could possibly go wrong.

 

[flacaltenn]

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

All of it is impossible.

The government hire EVERY unemployed American? 35 million people?

The government print enough money to pay them all 25-30K a year?

Neither are possible. Well, in liberal lala-land, I suppose it's technically possible. But WTF?

The only part I think your friend got wrong was using 0% as a target. No economist worth his salt would aim for that. The typical norm is 4%-6%. That's healthy. Lets take 6% as a target.

Math alert

9.1% - 6% = 3.1%
3.1% of 150M = 4.65M
4.65M * $30K per year = $139.5B

Now, add in benefits and you're talking more like $167B as a total cost per year. But, those people would no longer be drawing unemployment, so we would save

4.65M * $300 per week * 26 weeks = $36.27B

Total cost is then only $130.7B. Plus, if we wanted, we could make them pay taxes on it, like, you know, good tax-paying workers do. That would mean increased revenue of

15% * $130.7B = $19.6B

So, the real total cost would be $111.1B.

Not counting materials of course, but that number doesn't seem impossible. Does it?

I certainly don't want to discourage you from exercising your math skills and entertaining us all in process -- but you forgot financing costs.. Since every dollar paid would be borrowed that adds at 35% to the estimate. Also there are no safety compliance costs, OSHA, EEOC, and other required oversights. So you need to add at least another 30% for administrative costs. And given there's no materials included, I don't expect that any lasting value will be created without it -- you should Triple the final figure. So by estimate, it's more like a couple $Trill if you use the REAL unemployment figures of 12 or 14%......


Carry on -- we need the yucks..

 

[DontBeStupid]

Holy shit!!

Please tell me you're fucking kidding.

Nope. Not at all. I want to hear which part you all think is impossible.

wow
ok

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? You can't make people work.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? Not everyone can shovel, not everyone can work in an office setting.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls?
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this?


seriously, you have to be dumb on an epic level to think this might work.

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? Simple. I'll cut off their unemployment and tell them if they want money they have to get a job. You know, I'll do what all you good conservatives want us to do.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? I don't plan to. As I already showed, we only need to find jobs for 3% of the workforce that is currently looking. 3% can shovel and/or work in an office.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls? What inflation? We run over a trillion a year in deficits now and there is no runaway inflation. Adding $150B won't cause "VAST inflation".
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this? No one. I'll borrow it. 2% interest on the 10-year bond is ridiculously cheap. Take advantage of it and get the economy growing. We can grow our way out of the added debt.

 

[Sundial]

Amazing how "librals are stoopid!!!!11" will get 73 "thank you's" on this board, but an actually useful post won't get a one. DBS, I'd come across the full employment idea before - it's got a lot of support among MMTers - but I didn't realize it'd be so cheap. It's surprising (OK, it's not) that the "get a job" crowd is so upset at the prospect of making it possible for people to get jobs.

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

All of it is impossible.

The government hire EVERY unemployed American? 35 million people?

The government print enough money to pay them all 25-30K a year?

Neither are possible. Well, in liberal lala-land, I suppose it's technically possible. But WTF?

The only part I think your friend got wrong was using 0% as a target. No economist worth his salt would aim for that. The typical norm is 4%-6%. That's healthy. Lets take 6% as a target.

Math alert

9.1% - 6% = 3.1%
3.1% of 150M = 4.65M
4.65M * $30K per year = $139.5B

Now, add in benefits and you're talking more like $167B as a total cost per year. But, those people would no longer be drawing unemployment, so we would save

4.65M * $300 per week * 26 weeks = $36.27B

Total cost is then only $130.7B. Plus, if we wanted, we could make them pay taxes on it, like, you know, good tax-paying workers do. That would mean increased revenue of

15% * $130.7B = $19.6B

So, the real total cost would be $111.1B.

Not counting materials of course, but that number doesn't seem impossible. Does it?

 

[Bfgrn]

way to miss the point.

You simply cannot just print money and give everyone a job paid for with that money... the money is worthless because there is nothing to back it up... so prices skyrocket... putting everyone right back where they were to begin with.

No, but the government can put people to work through programs like the WPA. We bailed out the banks who destroyed our economy and caused the job crisis we're in. At least WORK programs create and build things that benefit everyone.

apples and oranges.

'apples' is talking about simple printing more money, and using said newly printed money to pay the salary of everyone currently out of work, once the government gives them a job. With nothing to back that newly printed money up, it is worthless and hyper inflation will be th result, totally negating any possible positive result.

'oranges' is talking about a WPA type program that provides some jobs for some segment of the population, and is paid for in some fashion.

I am very skeptical the OP was honestly portraying what that 'liberal' said. The printing money part is the most suspect.

Conservatives have done a good job framing the issues. First, they created a debt crisis that doesn't exist, so what the economy REALLY needs is painted as impossible.

Our national debt in relation to GDP is only a bit over half of what it was in 1946. The relevant number is below where it was in the mid-1950s, and comparable to the early 1990s.

Let's take a look at how the New Deal spending impacted real GDP back in the 1930's...

 

[FA_Q2]

This is the new mantra of the left; that having a job is a right. I fell to the floor when I heard one of the radio pundits pushing this a couple of months ago. Was sure he was being facetious but found that him and his guest were really quite serious. The arguments sound good on the front but are TERRIBLE when looked at.

Just out of curiosity, which part are you claiming is impossible for us to do? Or, are you trying to say this plan is possible, you just don't like it?

All of it is impossible.

The government hire EVERY unemployed American? 35 million people?

The government print enough money to pay them all 25-30K a year?

Neither are possible. Well, in liberal lala-land, I suppose it's technically possible. But WTF?

The only part I think your friend got wrong was using 0% as a target. No economist worth his salt would aim for that. The typical norm is 4%-6%. That's healthy. Lets take 6% as a target.

Math alert

9.1% - 6% = 3.1%
3.1% of 150M = 4.65M
4.65M * $30K per year = $139.5B

Now, add in benefits and you're talking more like $167B as a total cost per year. But, those people would no longer be drawing unemployment, so we would save

4.65M * $300 per week * 26 weeks = $36.27B

Total cost is then only $130.7B. Plus, if we wanted, we could make them pay taxes on it, like, you know, good tax-paying workers do. That would mean increased revenue of

15% * $130.7B = $19.6B

So, the real total cost would be $111.1B.

Not counting materials of course, but that number doesn't seem impossible. Does it?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really are looking for an honest answer to this so here goes:

First, you are focusing on the cost and that is irrelevant. Some here are pointing to the inflation but that is but a minute part of the problem. The real problem, and difference from what BFG was putting out there, is the idea that EVERYONE gets a job and a 'decent' salary. That means there is no measure to what you must accomplish in said job, no motivation to produce. If that job paid anything then there would suddenly be ZERO reason to go work at a McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Janitorial jobs or a million other low wage jobs. The government job would be better and also have the upside of not having to actually work.
This causes a vicious cycle as all non government jobs would need to raise the pay to keep anyone causing the prices of all goods to increase again causing the government jobs wages to be to little to accomplish anything forcing them to increase the pay further forcing the private sector to....

It is a circle eventually causing zero production in a society where everyone is employed by the government and no one actually does anything. You cannot employ 100% of the population and you cannot eliminate poverty. Like it or not, ALL societies need janitors, burger flippers and other low wage jobs. Those that have jobs like this should make enough to live but they will never be able to elevate them to middle class or comfortable lifestyles. You MUST have poor and rich. The trick is minimizing those sectors of society and having the bulk of people in the middle class/upper middle class. Any society that eliminates poverty essentially causes all to be poor instead of all to be middle class.


There is merit to TEMPORARY government employment in times of bad economic stress but the problem is in these modern times there is no temporary about it. We just keep INCREASING. At some point the government becomes to bloated to increase anything.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Nope. Not at all. I want to hear which part you all think is impossible.

wow
ok

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? You can't make people work.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? Not everyone can shovel, not everyone can work in an office setting.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls?
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this?


seriously, you have to be dumb on an epic level to think this might work.

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? Simple. I'll cut off their unemployment and tell them if they want money they have to get a job. You know, I'll do what all you good conservatives want us to do.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? I don't plan to. As I already showed, we only need to find jobs for 3% of the workforce that is currently looking. 3% can shovel and/or work in an office.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls? What inflation? We run over a trillion a year in deficits now and there is no runaway inflation. Adding $150B won't cause "VAST inflation".
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this? No one. I'll borrow it. 2% interest on the 10-year bond is ridiculously cheap. Take advantage of it and get the economy growing. We can grow our way out of the added debt.

How do you plan on forcing people off welfare? Simple. I'll cut off their unemployment and tell them if they want money they have to get a job. You know, I'll do what all you good conservatives want us to do. You coulda just said; I have no fucking clue. I would have respected that.
How do you plan on providing jobs everyone can do? I don't plan to. As I already showed, we only need to find jobs for 3% of the workforce that is currently looking. 3% can shovel and/or work in an office. See above.
How do you plan on handling the VAST inflation as the dollar falls? What inflation? We run over a trillion a year in deficits now and there is no runaway inflation. Adding $150B won't cause "VAST inflation". see above
Who are you going to tax the fuck out of to pay for this? No one. I'll borrow it. 2% interest on the 10-year bond is ridiculously cheap. Take advantage of it and get the economy growing. We can grow our way out of the added debt. You really don't have even the slightest grasp of what you are talking about.



Nosmo, you speak liberal.

Can you explain this in terms he might grasp?

 

[Ernie S.]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

How about we just repeal all the counterfeit laws? Think of all the small businesses that could spring up.
I'm thinking, Ernie's Nifty Fifties? Hell they could raise taxes all they want. I'll just run off another batch.

 

[paconner]

So what would happen if liberals got out of the way?

 

[flacaltenn]

No, but the government can put people to work through programs like the WPA. We bailed out the banks who destroyed our economy and caused the job crisis we're in. At least WORK programs create and build things that benefit everyone.

apples and oranges.

'apples' is talking about simple printing more money, and using said newly printed money to pay the salary of everyone currently out of work, once the government gives them a job. With nothing to back that newly printed money up, it is worthless and hyper inflation will be th result, totally negating any possible positive result.

'oranges' is talking about a WPA type program that provides some jobs for some segment of the population, and is paid for in some fashion.

I am very skeptical the OP was honestly portraying what that 'liberal' said. The printing money part is the most suspect.

Conservatives have done a good job framing the issues. First, they created a debt crisis that doesn't exist, so what the economy REALLY needs is painted as impossible.

Our national debt in relation to GDP is only a bit over half of what it was in 1946. The relevant number is below where it was in the mid-1950s, and comparable to the early 1990s.

Don't hurt yourself with those nifty graphics.. First one only shows debt "HELD BY THE PUBLIC". Only about 1/2 the debt today is "held by the public"..

And the Second chart can't discriminate between New Deal spending and WW2 spending so it's virtually useless..

So what was your point????

 

[rightwinger]

Ok. So a friend of mine is a bit of a leftie. And we all met today to do our NFL fantasy football roundup. And of course, after that and pizza, politics came up. And he is a staunch Obama supporter. He said of course the Tea Party was evil, blamed Bush for the mess we're in, then offered one whopper of an idea. Wanna hear it?

He said if only the right wing would get out of the way, Obama could fix the country and have 0% unemployment. Thats right. ZERO % unemployment. How, I asked? He says....

"The government can do two things: Hire people, and print money. There is so much that needs to be done, the government can just hire everyone who is unemployed, give them a role, and print the money to pay them. There would be no unemployment and no poverty. Of course, the Tea Party would vote to block it because for some reason they like people struggling."



How could I not have thought of that myself??????????

Of course. Just hire everyone, and print the money to pay them. No more poverty, no more unemployment!!!!!!

Left wingers, you are so brilliant

So you met one liberal who does not understand economics and he now represents all liberals?

Can I tell you about the Conservative I met that thinks you can reduce debt by cutting taxes?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Since every dollar paid would be borrowed that adds at 35% to the estimate.

Why? When interest rates for borrowing are currently 2% for 10 years?

Also there are no safety compliance costs, OSHA, EEOC, and other required oversights. So you need to add at least another 30% for administrative costs.

Fine. Lets add those to our $111.1B. We'll then have $144.43B. Of course, since regulations and inspections don't happen on their own, we'll need to hire inspectors. So, add 30% to our employed number as well and we're at 5.85M employed now. Right?

And given there's no materials included, I don't expect that any lasting value will be created without it

This is finally a legitimate concern. We have yet to talk about what these people will be doing. If they are manning the local DMV, sure, no lasting value there really. Nice short-term value though and no material costs. If they are building high speed rail or nuclear plants or something like that, then yes, we would have to add material costs. Of course, we could buy those materials from U.S. manufacturers, so that money would still be injected into the economy, and would create other jobs, but, totally dependent on what we make. This though could give us decades of us from the final product, which is something positive.

you should Triple the final figure. So by estimate, it's more like a couple $Trill

Whoah! Show your math! How do you go from $143.4B, which is the cost of salaries and regulations, and get to "a couple $Trill" ?[/quote]

if you use the REAL unemployment figures of 12 or 14%......

I did use real unemployment figures. 9.1% is the current level. The numbers you are using sound like they count people who are underemployed. While that sucks for them, that's not what we're discussing right now.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

How 'bout the RW lets some jobs bills pass an sthu with the fearmongering? That would work too...