Bernanke: “You are all Dead Ducks”

[Zoomie1980]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

That says a lot about you, then.....

 

[eots]

That says a lot about you, then.....

it really does doesn't it..not that Jillian needs any help expressing herself
I just beat her to the punch..but yes she is a extremely intelligent ,informed and insightful woman with as good heart and a few surprise up her sleve..she does have the wisdom to at least support a proper investigation of 911...now if i could just get her to entertain the concept that bilderburgs the cfr and international bankers are not code for jew..and turn her mind toward investigating those scoundrals..well lets just say its little dreams like that that keep eots going...

 

[jeffex]

can a troll chime in here? " what's with all the negative waves moriarity" people went beyond their means on the advice of the fed chairman as well as greedy mortgage brokers who were probably selling used cars the week before. Where is the shock and awe now that the dance is over and a few people got F-ed over. The reprocussions will adjust things back to normal through time and people will move forward with some caution . Well at leat until the next great scheme comes along. There is pain here for more people than the dotcom mess and Enron but of the same genre. As has been stated by others , most people are paying their mortgae and just sitting on the sidelines being cautious. Their pent up demand will be unleashed when they stop hearing the sky in falling all over their TV set by miss informed talking heads hoping to get ratings. Its just the lead of the day.
There are still many good companies with solid business principles running the engine of capitalism. In capitalism , a few bad apples doesn't spoil the whole barrel. We have a class of people with the mindset that they can get something for nothing in this country. They have found a way to thrive on entitlement programs. They prey on the conscience of the rest of Americans who are made to feel bad for their success by that same TV set. They are being passed over once again by the new "illegal working class". They are living proof that capitalism works quite well when you ignore some of the rules that saddle the rest of us like taxes, lisc. fees, and all the rest the gov. loads up on any start up business who wants to be LEGAL. I might agree to get to the top of the socio economic strata in this country you may need a pedigree or as Forrest Gump stated "A gozillion dollars" but who wants to be like that bunch anyway. Well I'm here to tell ya' they wont always be mowing lawns , basic labor trades,or cleaning houses . They are eyeing up skilled jobs that the middle class is supported by. HVAC, plumbers, electrician, computer & sattellite installers.... all require a higher level of tech. learning. Your mailman or UPS driver will soon be a hispanic if the next wave of amnesty moves in the next level of lower earners. Feeling sorry and having compassion for them is one thing but when your neighbor looses his /her HVAC $70,000 + job because they don't want to work 14 hr days what will you feel for that poor schmuck. So he /she wanted to spent some time with their kids the lazy Fu%^. Illegals are the trojan horse that will undermine what I knew as America. That landscaper looking the other way at a guy who speaks little or no english is a economic terrorist .

 

[Paulie]

it really does doesn't it..not that Jillian needs any help expressing herself
I just beat her to the punch..but yes she is a extremely intelligent ,informed and insightful woman with as good heart and a few surprise up her sleve..she does have the wisdom to at least support a proper investigation of 911...now if i could just get her to entertain the concept that bilderburgs the cfr and international bankers are not code for jew..and turn her mind toward investigating those scoundrals..well lets just say its little dreams like that that keep eots going...

My problem with a new investigation of 9/11 or an investigation of the CFR, is that you and I both know it would be a white wash.

Who would do the investigating?

 

[jakbo]

Assuming you are an American (your aren't) if you are not well off you haven't really chosen to be. What have you done to attain and advanced education or skills? What idea for a business have you come up with and when have decided to assume the risks for getting it started? What is your plan to accumulate capital and find others with capital willing to invest in your idea? If you have not done any of these things, then you have not chosen to be "rich"? Obviously you have not or you would be.



No quotas needed. As I stated, in a free society people will voluntarily fill all the levels needed. Most will gravitate to towards the bottom because they are either too lazy or cowardly to try anything else other than just "existing". Making money is HARD and requires more WORK than the vast majority of people are willing to endure. Taking all the "hard" courses in college majoring in something that is actually VALUED (because those are usually "hard and challenging" and most people, given the choice, are simply too lazy). And also most are far too afraid to take the risks as well. Are you willing to mortgage your home or bet your life savings on an idea to start a business? Probably not, but then most people wouldn't.




Everything is relative. Western Europe is much less "free" than America. Starting a business in France or Germany is a nightmare of red-tape and ridiculous labor laws. But then Singapore, Malaysia and other Pacific Rim economies as well as Eastern Europe are substantially freer than the United States in terms of business and economic activity.




That hasn't been so in the United States over the past 50 years. The "wealthy" as in those in the top 5% are far more likely to come from modest backgrounds than wealth. Lots of kids squander their inheritance...because...as I stated above, most will gravitate towards the bottom...even children of wealth.




Education is free in this country through grade 12. And students can spend their time taking "shop", remedial grammer, and cooking classes or they can opt to take advanced math, science, language and prepare themselves for college. Most opt for the easy stuff and thus squander the opportunity. For those the really try most can pay for 100% of their college. There is also ROTC and countless minority, low income and all sorts of scholarships out there. My daughter works 30 hours a week and takes an 18hr load to pay for what scholarship doesn't cover. The rest is loans. I pay for nothing for her even though I could. But that is "hard" and MOST will not do it. But there is NOTHING preventing them from doing it other than fear of hard work, but most 18-25 year olds want to party and have sex and screw off, not work hard to gain skills and knowledge that will make them wealthy by age 50. Again, CHOICE given, and most will gravitate, by laziness, to the bottom.




It's not desperation at all. It;s the "free lunch" syndrome. And it's "EASY". NO hard work or education needed. Of course there is virtually NO chance of success, because there is really no risk either. Great reward comes only through both great labor. great motivation, and great educated risk. Every able bodied, sound mined adult citizen of the US can get an education or technical training in a high demand skill at any time usually with little or no money of their own....if the WANT to. But almost NONE "want" to.....because it is HARD and most people do not like HARD...




Maybe in Belgium or France, but not the US. The statitistics prove it. I make a VERY good living, make a LOT of money. My mother dropped out of school after the sixth grade and eventually became a hair dresser. My father dropped out of school at age 15, lied about his age, joined the Merchant Marine in 1942 then the Air Force. He was a used car salesman. We weren't dirt poor but we didn't have much. I got an education and majored in math, chemistry and computer science. I did very well for my self. My wife was born to tennant farmer. Also got an education she paid for all herself and worked through school and is now a cheif nurse at a major medical center.
That's how it is here. You make YOURSELF and you don't need the STATE to help, just provide the opportunities....which this state....does to EVERYONE.

I just wanted to say that, in my experience, I've found everything you've said in this post to be absolutely correct. Anybody can change their lot in life, in this country. I labored in a factory in the Midwest for several years; even got married and had a family. Neither my wife nor I were happy with our lot in life and the kind of life we could give our children, so we put ourselves into the poor house for the last four years while I studied computer science and my wife studied nursing. we're both graduating this May with BS's in our respective fields.

We've both already attained employment for when we graduate; me as a software engineer and her as a registered nurse. Both jobs are very good-paying, especially right out of college. We basically went from barely subsisting on my factory-wage dead end job to being dirt poor and living on food stamps and housing assistance to being in the upper tier of the middle class.

I was quite taken with your post and my story, I think, proves it absolutely true. I agree with you that most people will gravitate towards the easy route (I've been tempted, to be sure) and that is how they end up in their particular situations. There has been nothing easy about going to school full-time in a major as academically rigorous as computer science, working a part-time job as an intern, and being a full-time father all while being absolutely dirt poor. I feel sorry for NOBODY in regards to their lot in life as a result of my experience.

If somebody truly wants something in life, they'll go after it and nothing will stop them. It's as simple as that and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. This is a great country we live in and opportunities are there for those willing to work for them.

 

[Gunny]

I just wanted to say that, in my experience, I've found everything you've said in this post to be absolutely correct. Anybody can change their lot in life, in this country. I labored in a factory in the Midwest for several years; even got married and had a family. Neither my wife nor I were happy with our lot in life and the kind of life we could give our children, so we put ourselves into the poor house for the last four years while I studied computer science and my wife studied nursing. we're both graduating this May with BS's in our respective fields.

We've both already attained employment for when we graduate; me as a software engineer and her as a registered nurse. Both jobs are very good-paying, especially right out of college. We basically went from barely subsisting on my factory-wage dead end job to being dirt poor and living on food stamps and housing assistance to being in the upper tier of the middle class.

I was quite taken with your post and my story, I think, proves it absolutely true. I agree with you that most people will gravitate towards the easy route (I've been tempted, to be sure) and that is how they end up in their particular situations. There has been nothing easy about going to school full-time in a major as academically rigorous as computer science, working a part-time job as an intern, and being a full-time father all while being absolutely dirt poor. I feel sorry for NOBODY in regards to their lot in life as a result of my experience.

If somebody truly wants something in life, they'll go after it and nothing will stop them. It's as simple as that and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. This is a great country we live in and opportunities are there for those willing to work for them.

I can agree almost 100%. I have noticed from experience that because I was able to just stop on a dime in midstream and reroute my life in order to achieve more than eeking it out, it is quite easy to become intolerant of those who don't, to include those who cannot.

There are legitimate reasons why some people just cannot rise above their circumstances. Not quite the same as just being lazy.

 

[Paulie]

I can agree almost 100%. I have noticed from experience that because I was able to just stop on a dime in midstream and reroute my life in order to achieve more than eeking it out, it is quite easy to become intolerant of those who don't, to include those who cannot.

There are legitimate reasons why some people just cannot rise above their circumstances. Not quite the same as just being lazy.

Of course there's always exceptions. If we didn't have 2 kids, including an infant, my girlfriend and I would be on easy street by now. We're struggling trying to figure out which route she should go to pursue a career. She's got 3 different Associate degrees, and she's a little over a year away from her BA. But she works a job making peanuts pretty much, and that's been hurting us. She's thinking of going to nursing route, as they make damn good money where we live. Health care is her area. She's good at it. But it's tough to just stop, and start something new when you have kids to support. I just started branching myself out into the world of self-employment, and it's going pretty well. It's amazing how well you can do if you're good at something, specifically a trade.

I agree that there are some people who just CAN'T. I realize that. But I'm willing to bet that the majority of people on the government teet COULD.

So many things need to go into changing the system. Our money needs to stop being devalued the way it is. Our jobs need to stop being sent overseas. Our borders need to be secured, and we need to stop letting illegal immigrants into the country to make it even easier for the lazy people to say "I don't want to work". Having people that will do a job for half the amount is what keeps the wages low, and the people lazy, complacent, and downright unwilling.

The incentive to work, for the middle class, is so low these days, that you can almost UNDERSTAND why people would rather the government just give them the money for free instead. Why bust your ass for $10/hr when the government will provide a life for you that's pretty much equal to making that amount of money per month?

I just don't see this country becoming as productive as it once was until the government says "enough". But that dependence is what keeps those in power relevent. So will it ever ACTUALLY change? Probably not.

 

[jakbo]

I can agree almost 100%. I have noticed from experience that because I was able to just stop on a dime in midstream and reroute my life in order to achieve more than eeking it out, it is quite easy to become intolerant of those who don't, to include those who cannot.

There are legitimate reasons why some people just cannot rise above their circumstances. Not quite the same as just being lazy.

I can understand where you're coming from; I was lucky enough to be living in Iowa where social programs are actually flexible enough to allow people to make significant changes pursuant to improving their lots in life. Some states are severely lacking in that regard. Not only that, but some people just aren't "college material", and college is what it takes for one to ascend the economic ladder.

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't necessarily believe social programs are something the government should be involved with. In fact, I believe quite the opposite. While my wife and I used social programs for the reasons they were intended, there are a lot of people out there who're content to live their entire lives via government programs never having any intention of moving from government dependence to actually contributing to society. With that in mind and from my personal experience with government assistance, I'm of the opinion that the government isn't exactly good at efficiently implementing social programs and measures should be taken to ensure that these programs are being used to benefit society by empowering our citizens with education as opposed to these programs being a drag on our society by empowering our citizens to mooch off of the government their entire lives. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so.

 

[Paulie]

and college is what it takes for one to ascend the economic ladder.

Have to disagree. College certainly doesn't hurt, but it's not "what it takes". True freedom is working for yourself. Anyone with a skill in a certain area can take that skill and profit from it. Working for someone is fine, and you can make a lot of money, but there is a certain quality to being your own boss. It doesn't take college to own a business, and owning businesses has made more people wealthy than anything else. Specifically the real-estate market. If you're flipping houses, you're running a business, and that doesn't require a single day in a college classroom.

 

[BrianH]

Have to disagree. College certainly doesn't hurt, but it's not "what it takes". True freedom is working for yourself. Anyone with a skill in a certain area can take that skill and profit from it. Working for someone is fine, and you can make a lot of money, but there is a certain quality to being your own boss. It doesn't take college to own a business, and owning businesses has made more people wealthy than anything else. Specifically the real-estate market. If you're flipping houses, you're running a business, and that doesn't require a single day in a college classroom.

I agree with your logic about not "needing" college, however, I cannot be an idealist. The probability of success (depending on your definition) is alot lower without a college degree...in these days. Sure, it takes a hard worker and a fair deal of luck. And you're right, it doesn't take college to own your own business, but owning your own business is out of the questions for the majority of people. We live in an age of certification (in most jobs)...if you want something welded, you want a certified welder. If you want someone to remodel your house, you want a certified carpenter, electrician, plumber, etc...
I agree with what you are saying, so I'm not arguing.

 

[jakbo]

Have to disagree. College certainly doesn't hurt, but it's not "what it takes". True freedom is working for yourself. Anyone with a skill in a certain area can take that skill and profit from it. Working for someone is fine, and you can make a lot of money, but there is a certain quality to being your own boss. It doesn't take college to own a business, and owning businesses has made more people wealthy than anything else. Specifically the real-estate market. If you're flipping houses, you're running a business, and that doesn't require a single day in a college classroom.

That is true, I guess I never really thought about people owning businesses. College is probably the most sure-fire way toward economic success for most people, however.

A little off-topic, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in the "house-flipping" business right now, or anytime in the near future.

 

[Paulie]

I agree with your logic about not "needing" college, however, I cannot be an idealist. The probability of success (depending on your definition) is alot lower without a college degree...in these days. Sure, it takes a hard worker and a fair deal of luck. And you're right, it doesn't take college to own your own business, but owning your own business is out of the questions for the majority of people. We live in an age of certification (in most jobs)...if you want something welded, you want a certified welder. If you want someone to remodel your house, you want a certified carpenter, electrician, plumber, etc...
I agree with what you are saying, so I'm not arguing.

I run into a lot of people I went to HS with, and it's been 10 years. Many of them have a Bachelors degree and still don't have a good job. The Bachelors degree doesn't mean as much as it used to.

I can admit that college gives you more of a shot to succeed, but there are times when a classroom education doesn't have SHIT on physical skills.

There will ALWAYS be a need for people who can perform trades. There may not always be a need for that software engineer, for example.

Anything you can do well, is an asset to you, and COULD have the potential to make you rich, or at least provide a secure financial life for yourself. Whether you went to college for it, or not.

Think about that pothead who has never done anything more than work for McDonalds, but knows how to draw exceptionally well, and can even airbrush well, and silkscreen. It's just a hobby that he was naturally good at. That guy can make t-shirts and sell them, and make a lot of money. He probably never would, because his motivation sucks. If that person just put his mind to it, he could succeed. That's the opportunity you have in this country, and it's a beautiful thing.

 

[BrianH]

I run into a lot of people I went to HS with, and it's been 10 years. Many of them have a Bachelors degree and still don't have a good job. The Bachelors degree doesn't mean as much as it used to.

I can admit that college gives you more of a shot to succeed, but there are times when a classroom education doesn't have SHIT on physical skills.

There will ALWAYS be a need for people who can perform trades. There may not always be a need for that software engineer, for example.

Anything you can do well, is an asset to you, and COULD have the potential to make you rich, or at least provide a secure financial life for yourself. Whether you went to college for it, or not.

Think about that pothead who has never done anything more than work for McDonalds, but knows how to draw exceptionally well, and can even airbrush well, and silkscreen. It's just a hobby that he was naturally good at. That guy can make t-shirts and sell them, and make a lot of money. He probably never would, because his motivation sucks. If that person just put his mind to it, he could succeed. That's the opportunity you have in this country, and it's a beautiful thing.

Fair enough, I see your point. I think the McDonald's pothead goes hand in hand with our bachelor's degree earners that don't have jobs. As far as choice in the matter.

In Germany, you go to college, and if you're not college material (determined by the gov.)they send you to trade school.

 

[Gunny]

Of course there's always exceptions. If we didn't have 2 kids, including an infant, my girlfriend and I would be on easy street by now. We're struggling trying to figure out which route she should go to pursue a career. She's got 3 different Associate degrees, and she's a little over a year away from her BA. But she works a job making peanuts pretty much, and that's been hurting us. She's thinking of going to nursing route, as they make damn good money where we live. Health care is her area. She's good at it. But it's tough to just stop, and start something new when you have kids to support. I just started branching myself out into the world of self-employment, and it's going pretty well. It's amazing how well you can do if you're good at something, specifically a trade.

I agree that there are some people who just CAN'T. I realize that. But I'm willing to bet that the majority of people on the government teet COULD.

So many things need to go into changing the system. Our money needs to stop being devalued the way it is. Our jobs need to stop being sent overseas. Our borders need to be secured, and we need to stop letting illegal immigrants into the country to make it even easier for the lazy people to say "I don't want to work". Having people that will do a job for half the amount is what keeps the wages low, and the people lazy, complacent, and downright unwilling.

The incentive to work, for the middle class, is so low these days, that you can almost UNDERSTAND why people would rather the government just give them the money for free instead. Why bust your ass for $10/hr when the government will provide a life for you that's pretty much equal to making that amount of money per month?

I just don't see this country becoming as productive as it once was until the government says "enough". But that dependence is what keeps those in power relevent. So will it ever ACTUALLY change? Probably not.

I'm not apologizing for slugs. My comment was made in the context of what I perceived as intolerance on jakbo's part. I'm as intolerant to people who just won't and don't as anyone. I was merelt pointing out it needs to be tempered with knowledge there are some "can't's" in there as well.

 

[Gunny]

I can understand where you're coming from; I was lucky enough to be living in Iowa where social programs are actually flexible enough to allow people to make significant changes pursuant to improving their lots in life. Some states are severely lacking in that regard. Not only that, but some people just aren't "college material", and college is what it takes for one to ascend the economic ladder.

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't necessarily believe social programs are something the government should be involved with. In fact, I believe quite the opposite. While my wife and I used social programs for the reasons they were intended, there are a lot of people out there who're content to live their entire lives via government programs never having any intention of moving from government dependence to actually contributing to society. With that in mind and from my personal experience with government assistance, I'm of the opinion that the government isn't exactly good at efficiently implementing social programs and measures should be taken to ensure that these programs are being used to benefit society by empowering our citizens with education as opposed to these programs being a drag on our society by empowering our citizens to mooch off of the government their entire lives. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so.

I don't think it makes you a hypocrite to use programs as they're intended and STILL criticize those who abuse them as not intended. IMO, those with a need and use for the programs should be the most offended by the parasites.

My comment to your first paragraph is this: without those who will not or cannot excel, those who do excel would never get ahead. We would all be the same. I'm sure that would please a few of the board socialists; except, they would consider themselves still better than everyone else and I'm sure envision themselves as some part of the ruling class.

 

[jakbo]

I don't think it makes you a hypocrite to use programs as they're intended and STILL criticize those who abuse them as not intended. IMO, those with a need and use for the programs should be the most offended by the parasites.

It's true; I am deeply offended by those who don't aspire to make a valuable contribution to our society. My neighbors, for example, are an entire family of leeches. There are four of them and each and every one of them is on government disability. Even their kids are on disability! If I'm not mistaken, those disability checks are somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500/month, which is about $72,000/year between all of them, before taxes. In Iowa, $72,000/year for a family of four means they are wealthy, or close to it. The ONLY thing wrong with them is that they're so obese they can't work; I know them, that is the only thing wrong with them! They're just too lazy to get off of their asses and do something with their lives. In my mind, that's just not right and I get infuriated to think that my tax dollars are going to be spent perpetuating that bull shit. Now, I know this is an isolated case, but I actually come across this type of thing more often than I'd care to, thus leading me to believe it's a common occurrence.

My comment to your first paragraph is this: without those who will not or cannot excel, those who do excel would never get ahead. We would all be the same. I'm sure that would please a few of the board socialists; except, they would consider themselves still better than everyone else and I'm sure envision themselves as some part of the ruling class.

There is truth in this; it would be pretty hard to distinguish myself in a society in which excellence was the norm. I'm lucky in that regard. I just get angry thinking about the inevitability of the government taking from me to give to them. As if they're somehow entitled to the fruits of my hard work.

 

[jakbo]

I run into a lot of people I went to HS with, and it's been 10 years. Many of them have a Bachelors degree and still don't have a good job. The Bachelors degree doesn't mean as much as it used to.

I can admit that college gives you more of a shot to succeed, but there are times when a classroom education doesn't have SHIT on physical skills.

There will ALWAYS be a need for people who can perform trades. There may not always be a need for that software engineer, for example.

Anything you can do well, is an asset to you, and COULD have the potential to make you rich, or at least provide a secure financial life for yourself. Whether you went to college for it, or not.

Think about that pothead who has never done anything more than work for McDonalds, but knows how to draw exceptionally well, and can even airbrush well, and silkscreen. It's just a hobby that he was naturally good at. That guy can make t-shirts and sell them, and make a lot of money. He probably never would, because his motivation sucks. If that person just put his mind to it, he could succeed. That's the opportunity you have in this country, and it's a beautiful thing.

I agree, in some fields a bachelors degree doesn't mean as much as it once did. However, a bachelors degree in computer science, or any of the sciences really, means a lot in this country's workforce. Holding a degree in any of the sciences means you're up to the challenge of thinking problems through and logically formulating solutions to those problems.

I completely disagree with your assertion that there may not always be a need for software engineers, however. As long as there are businesses and they use computers, there will always be a need for software engineers. The rate at which hardware advances and makes old software obsolete is staggering and creates an ever-growing demand for software professionals. In fact, the demand for software engineers exceeds the supply of software engineers by a long shot. That disparity is only going to get worse in the coming years as people continue choosing easier majors in college and the demand for computer people continues to grow. That's good for me!

 

[Gunny]

It's true; I am deeply offended by those who don't aspire to make a valuable contribution to our society. My neighbors, for example, are an entire family of leeches. There are four of them and each and every one of them is on government disability. Even their kids are on disability! If I'm not mistaken, those disability checks are somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500/month, which is about $72,000/year between all of them, before taxes. In Iowa, $72,000/year for a family of four means they are wealthy, or close to it. The ONLY thing wrong with them is that they're so obese they can't work; I know them, that is the only thing wrong with them! They're just too lazy to get off of their asses and do something with their lives. In my mind, that's just not right and I get infuriated to think that my tax dollars are going to be spent perpetuating that bull shit. Now, I know this is an isolated case, but I actually come across this type of thing more often than I'd care to, thus leading me to believe it's a common occurrence.




There is truth in this; it would be pretty hard to distinguish myself in a society in which excellence was the norm. I'm lucky in that regard. I just get angry thinking about the inevitability of the government taking from me to give to them. As if they're somehow entitled to the fruits of my hard work.

Don't get me started on taxes. I can rant QUITE awhile. I consider nothing more than theft. And I completely agree where stealing my money to support parasites is concerned.

THAT is my entire problem with our social programs to being with. I bet we could cut expenditures in half if we first cut the bureaucracy built around them, then scrutinized those applying a little better. But even that bureaucracy is leeching off the government at our expense.

And just wait. Obama is making the SAME promises I heard from Bill Clinton in 91 -- cut tax loopholes for the wealthy and provide a tax relief for the middle class which when all was said and done turned into more shit being tossed on the middle classes' backs. Deja vu.