Benefits of adding grades 13 and 14 to Secondary Ed.

[CrusaderFrank]

I’d prefer to offer free/low cost community college to those who want it

Community College usually requires tuition, and the focus requires much of the same curriculum (history, social science, math, and physical and biological sciences) which a student seeking a trade or technology degree has had in their secondary education). Not all communities have a close by community college and high schools could accommodate more students, even if the 13th and 14th student body attended in the late afternoon and early evening. Also, most Community Colleges have an entrance exam, and require those who haven't mastered English or Math end up in Bone Head classes which undermines self confidence.

Not everyone needs a secondary education
I would like to see more trade opportunities and job skills/ apprenticeships

Job Corp takes 'em at 16, the military at 17, and yet not every individual is inclined to leave home at the age. The fact is, jobs in the trades, technology and the service industry do not get much attention in the current curriculum in high schools.

The 13/14 concept could be incorporated into the final year in high school, for those who decided they wanted to begin a career at 18.
\
Q. Did you have a plan for your career when you completed high school

A. My plan was to replace Clete Boyer at 3B.

Phil Linz, Tom Tresh, Gene Michael, Horace Clark....those are the Yankees I grew up on

Actually before the Giants move to SF I followed the Dodgers and was a fan of Duke Snider. Boyer was who I wanted to replace, since I never had the speed to play CF, and I was never small and was never called Pee Wee.

I always had a good arm, played outfield in parks all over the Bronx, except at Yankee stadium . Was average hitter on my best day. Pitched a no hitter in little league. My friend once got to shake hands with duke Carmel.

In 69 all my friends suddenly became NYMets fans.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Community College usually requires tuition, and the focus requires much of the same curriculum (history, social science, math, and physical and biological sciences) which a student seeking a trade or technology degree has had in their secondary education). Not all communities have a close by community college and high schools could accommodate more students, even if the 13th and 14th student body attended in the late afternoon and early evening. Also, most Community Colleges have an entrance exam, and require those who haven't mastered English or Math end up in Bone Head classes which undermines self confidence.

Not everyone needs a secondary education
I would like to see more trade opportunities and job skills/ apprenticeships

Job Corp takes 'em at 16, the military at 17, and yet not every individual is inclined to leave home at the age. The fact is, jobs in the trades, technology and the service industry do not get much attention in the current curriculum in high schools.

The 13/14 concept could be incorporated into the final year in high school, for those who decided they wanted to begin a career at 18.
\
Q. Did you have a plan for your career when you completed high school

A. My plan was to replace Clete Boyer at 3B.

Phil Linz, Tom Tresh, Gene Michael, Horace Clark....those are the Yankees I grew up on

Actually before the Giants move to SF I followed the Dodgers and was a fan of Duke Snider. Boyer was who I wanted to replace, since I never had the speed to play CF, and I was never small and was never called Pee Wee.

I always had a good arm, played outfield in parks all over the Bronx, except at Yankee stadium . Was average hitter on my best day. Pitched a no hitter in little league. My friend once got to shake hands with duke Carmel.

In 69 all my friends suddenly became NYMets fans.

When I was a kid before high school, the SF Examiner put on a baseball clinic at Big Rec, two full sized baseball diamonds in Golden Gate Park. It invited all SF kids to participate, and selected a team of 16 & 17 to play against NYC kids of the same age. I assume a NY Paper did the same sort of thing. Do you recall that?

Later, when I was 14 I was selected to play against a Hawaiian All Star Team which came to The City, and we played them at Big Rec. I still remember all of the starters had Asian last names, except the player in the nine hole, his last name was Spencer and he bunted all three times, and was safe twice.

It was the first time I played against a team which ran and ran at every opportunity. It create chaos in the field, and as a catcher I had two attempt to steal home, and the first one scored.

 

[flacaltenn]

I have never said I wanted to pour more money into the public education system. My take away from all of you conservatives who make this claim, and also feel the taxpayer should subsidize with vouchers alternative schools, believe the private sector, in all areas even beyond the education system, is good and anything touched by the government is not good, and even bad.

Clearly I hold a different opinion. The private sector, by definition, is profit driven. That is not meant to state they do not, or can not do a better job than our current public school system, it's just a fact.

Private schools do not need, and are mostly unwilling, to allow a student who is disruptive to remain in the classroom, or even within their private school system. Public schools must take every student, unless the student's behavior is a danger to others or themselves. However, the public school system is not off the hook, since every child within their community is required to receive educational services, paid for by the taxpayer.

Of course I also believe the hidden agenda behind the voucher movement is an effort by its advocates to brainwash a child. Sometimes with great subtlety, as when, "under God" was inserted into the Pledge of Alliance.

Go find the "Waiting for Superman" documentary on NetFlix or other platforms. This is a WAR. Lives are being lost every new school year. We need to TRIAGE the situation..

And the 1st step is separate the parents that a give a shit from those who don't. That is what the documentary is about. About 4500 parents queing up (Lottery Style) for just a couple hundred VOUCHERS that get THEIR kids out of dangerous failing schools.. And the pain of NOT getting them..

We owe all the parents WHO CARE -- immediate relief. And deal with the other types of situations in other battles. Go WATCH IT --- and tell me you're just gonna ignore them... THEY KNOW what their solution looks like.

Yeah, let's all support Segregation, that'll be the panacea.

SARCASM ALERT

You're not gonna watch the carnage of keeping MOTIVATED parents panicked without hope. DARE YOU to watch it. And it's not segregation. It's actually in MOST cases works to the advantage of INTEGRATION.

You got nothing.. Watch the documentary..

I was involved and managed a DOJ grant which put Police Officers (Resource Officers) and Probation Officers in selective schools in our county. Of course this was expensive and when the grant ended so did the program.

I don't need to watch a documentary, I visited these schools during that 3-year assignment and found a couple things of interest: School Administrators were not all receptive to LE being on campus, and didn't buy into the program; the kids provided valuable information to the officers, which led to interventions the school authorities & regular patrol might never have uncovered; and, turf issues prevented a closer relationship between LE, Teachers and the Juv. Court Judge.

I would like to have established Youth Court's (look that up, there is lots of material on this program) in the several School Districts within the County. Once again turf issues prevented us from implementing this public/private sector program using volunteers as mentors and students as court personnel.

Waiting for Superman has NOTHING to do with LE or legal infractions in schools. It's about parents who are at their WITS END trying to get their kids OUT of failing schools. And all they have is a LOTTERY that issues tickets to PROVEN schools where the odds are less then 1 in 100 that their child will be saved.

No time for experimentation for THOSE parents. They can't WAIT another 30 years to fix ANYTHING. Watch it...

 

[Moonglow]

I have never said I wanted to pour more money into the public education system. My take away from all of you conservatives who make this claim, and also feel the taxpayer should subsidize with vouchers alternative schools, believe the private sector, in all areas even beyond the education system, is good and anything touched by the government is not good, and even bad.

Clearly I hold a different opinion. The private sector, by definition, is profit driven. That is not meant to state they do not, or can not do a better job than our current public school system, it's just a fact.

Private schools do not need, and are mostly unwilling, to allow a student who is disruptive to remain in the classroom, or even within their private school system. Public schools must take every student, unless the student's behavior is a danger to others or themselves. However, the public school system is not off the hook, since every child within their community is required to receive educational services, paid for by the taxpayer.

Of course I also believe the hidden agenda behind the voucher movement is an effort by its advocates to brainwash a child. Sometimes with great subtlety, as when, "under God" was inserted into the Pledge of Alliance.

Go find the "Waiting for Superman" documentary on NetFlix or other platforms. This is a WAR. Lives are being lost every new school year. We need to TRIAGE the situation..

And the 1st step is separate the parents that a give a shit from those who don't. That is what the documentary is about. About 4500 parents queing up (Lottery Style) for just a couple hundred VOUCHERS that get THEIR kids out of dangerous failing schools.. And the pain of NOT getting them..

We owe all the parents WHO CARE -- immediate relief. And deal with the other types of situations in other battles. Go WATCH IT --- and tell me you're just gonna ignore them... THEY KNOW what their solution looks like.

Yeah, let's all support Segregation, that'll be the panacea.

SARCASM ALERT

You're not gonna watch the carnage of keeping MOTIVATED parents panicked without hope. DARE YOU to watch it. And it's not segregation. It's actually in MOST cases works to the advantage of INTEGRATION.

You got nothing.. Watch the documentary..

I was involved and managed a DOJ grant which put Police Officers (Resource Officers) and Probation Officers in selective schools in our county. Of course this was expensive and when the grant ended so did the program.

I don't need to watch a documentary, I visited these schools during that 3-year assignment and found a couple things of interest: School Administrators were not all receptive to LE being on campus, and didn't buy into the program; the kids provided valuable information to the officers, which led to interventions the school authorities & regular patrol might never have uncovered; and, turf issues prevented a closer relationship between LE, Teachers and the Juv. Court Judge.

I would like to have established Youth Court's (look that up, there is lots of material on this program) in the several School Districts within the County. Once again turf issues prevented us from implementing this public/private sector program using volunteers as mentors and students as court personnel.

Waiting for Superman has NOTHING to do with LE or legal infractions in schools. It's about parents who are at their WITS END trying to get their kids OUT of failing schools. And all they have is a LOTTERY that issues tickets to PROVEN schools where the odds are less then 1 in 100 that their child will be saved.

No time for experimentation for THOSE parents. They can't WAIT another 30 years to fix ANYTHING. Watch it...

They can always homeschool their kids, I have.

 

[flacaltenn]

Most communities have Jr. Colleges, which could incorporate such a two-year program, as well as a jumping off place for those who choose to transfer to a 4-year school.

THERE'S the path. K-12 has enough tasks on their plate. Get them out. Even EARLY out for trades, and specialty services. The Comm Colleges AND the trade schools that are making a comeback will do a better job.

If you live in a state that can afford subsidizing AA, AS degrees, like Tennessee just did --- even better.

And the message to the K-12 gulag is -- you better RAISE the expectations and shoot for getting kids to that "post secondary" level or you've failed them completely. Their lives are gonna depend on it...

Sounds like you left out the most important part of the equation.

There is no ONE "most important part of the equation". There are MANY important parts. And anyone trying to reduce the "failing school" problem to ONE parameter is just jerking your chain.

ONE of the most important parts is PARENTS. My Aunt/Uncle were high up in failing schools in the NY City system for their careers. My uncle had 3 cars destroyed, hospitalized twice, SUED a million times. It's a war zone. He forced me as a "privileged HS-er" to sit in on classes when we visited. Just so I KNEW it was war zone.

Those 2 will tell you -- 1/2 of their problems would disappear if they had PARENTS who would sign report cards and attend teacher conferences. Public schools might THINK they are surrogate parents. But they are not.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have never said I wanted to pour more money into the public education system. My take away from all of you conservatives who make this claim, and also feel the taxpayer should subsidize with vouchers alternative schools, believe the private sector, in all areas even beyond the education system, is good and anything touched by the government is not good, and even bad.

Clearly I hold a different opinion. The private sector, by definition, is profit driven. That is not meant to state they do not, or can not do a better job than our current public school system, it's just a fact.

Private schools do not need, and are mostly unwilling, to allow a student who is disruptive to remain in the classroom, or even within their private school system. Public schools must take every student, unless the student's behavior is a danger to others or themselves. However, the public school system is not off the hook, since every child within their community is required to receive educational services, paid for by the taxpayer.

Of course I also believe the hidden agenda behind the voucher movement is an effort by its advocates to brainwash a child. Sometimes with great subtlety, as when, "under God" was inserted into the Pledge of Alliance.

Go find the "Waiting for Superman" documentary on NetFlix or other platforms. This is a WAR. Lives are being lost every new school year. We need to TRIAGE the situation..

And the 1st step is separate the parents that a give a shit from those who don't. That is what the documentary is about. About 4500 parents queing up (Lottery Style) for just a couple hundred VOUCHERS that get THEIR kids out of dangerous failing schools.. And the pain of NOT getting them..

We owe all the parents WHO CARE -- immediate relief. And deal with the other types of situations in other battles. Go WATCH IT --- and tell me you're just gonna ignore them... THEY KNOW what their solution looks like.

Yeah, let's all support Segregation, that'll be the panacea.

SARCASM ALERT

You're not gonna watch the carnage of keeping MOTIVATED parents panicked without hope. DARE YOU to watch it. And it's not segregation. It's actually in MOST cases works to the advantage of INTEGRATION.

You got nothing.. Watch the documentary..

I was involved and managed a DOJ grant which put Police Officers (Resource Officers) and Probation Officers in selective schools in our county. Of course this was expensive and when the grant ended so did the program.

I don't need to watch a documentary, I visited these schools during that 3-year assignment and found a couple things of interest: School Administrators were not all receptive to LE being on campus, and didn't buy into the program; the kids provided valuable information to the officers, which led to interventions the school authorities & regular patrol might never have uncovered; and, turf issues prevented a closer relationship between LE, Teachers and the Juv. Court Judge.

I would like to have established Youth Court's (look that up, there is lots of material on this program) in the several School Districts within the County. Once again turf issues prevented us from implementing this public/private sector program using volunteers as mentors and students as court personnel.

Waiting for Superman has NOTHING to do with LE or legal infractions in schools. It's about parents who are at their WITS END trying to get their kids OUT of failing schools. And all they have is a LOTTERY that issues tickets to PROVEN schools where the odds are less then 1 in 100 that their child will be saved.

No time for experimentation for THOSE parents. They can't WAIT another 30 years to fix ANYTHING. Watch it...

Too bad for them, they can move, the can home school and they can get a second or third job to pay for a private school of their choice - it's called personal responsibility, something the right claims when it is convenient, and ignores when it is not.

Taxpayer's pay for the Public School system, we should not pay to subsidize private / charter schools.

 

[Moonglow]

Go find the "Waiting for Superman" documentary on NetFlix or other platforms. This is a WAR. Lives are being lost every new school year. We need to TRIAGE the situation..

And the 1st step is separate the parents that a give a shit from those who don't. That is what the documentary is about. About 4500 parents queing up (Lottery Style) for just a couple hundred VOUCHERS that get THEIR kids out of dangerous failing schools.. And the pain of NOT getting them..

We owe all the parents WHO CARE -- immediate relief. And deal with the other types of situations in other battles. Go WATCH IT --- and tell me you're just gonna ignore them... THEY KNOW what their solution looks like.

Yeah, let's all support Segregation, that'll be the panacea.

SARCASM ALERT

You're not gonna watch the carnage of keeping MOTIVATED parents panicked without hope. DARE YOU to watch it. And it's not segregation. It's actually in MOST cases works to the advantage of INTEGRATION.

You got nothing.. Watch the documentary..

I was involved and managed a DOJ grant which put Police Officers (Resource Officers) and Probation Officers in selective schools in our county. Of course this was expensive and when the grant ended so did the program.

I don't need to watch a documentary, I visited these schools during that 3-year assignment and found a couple things of interest: School Administrators were not all receptive to LE being on campus, and didn't buy into the program; the kids provided valuable information to the officers, which led to interventions the school authorities & regular patrol might never have uncovered; and, turf issues prevented a closer relationship between LE, Teachers and the Juv. Court Judge.

I would like to have established Youth Court's (look that up, there is lots of material on this program) in the several School Districts within the County. Once again turf issues prevented us from implementing this public/private sector program using volunteers as mentors and students as court personnel.

Waiting for Superman has NOTHING to do with LE or legal infractions in schools. It's about parents who are at their WITS END trying to get their kids OUT of failing schools. And all they have is a LOTTERY that issues tickets to PROVEN schools where the odds are less then 1 in 100 that their child will be saved.

No time for experimentation for THOSE parents. They can't WAIT another 30 years to fix ANYTHING. Watch it...

Too bad for them, they can move, the can home school and they can get a second or third job to pay for a private school of their choice - it's called personal responsibility, something the right claims when it is convenient, and ignores when it is not.

Most folks don't like the idea of having their kids around all the time you know...

 

[flacaltenn]

Go find the "Waiting for Superman" documentary on NetFlix or other platforms. This is a WAR. Lives are being lost every new school year. We need to TRIAGE the situation..

And the 1st step is separate the parents that a give a shit from those who don't. That is what the documentary is about. About 4500 parents queing up (Lottery Style) for just a couple hundred VOUCHERS that get THEIR kids out of dangerous failing schools.. And the pain of NOT getting them..

We owe all the parents WHO CARE -- immediate relief. And deal with the other types of situations in other battles. Go WATCH IT --- and tell me you're just gonna ignore them... THEY KNOW what their solution looks like.

Yeah, let's all support Segregation, that'll be the panacea.

SARCASM ALERT

You're not gonna watch the carnage of keeping MOTIVATED parents panicked without hope. DARE YOU to watch it. And it's not segregation. It's actually in MOST cases works to the advantage of INTEGRATION.

You got nothing.. Watch the documentary..

I was involved and managed a DOJ grant which put Police Officers (Resource Officers) and Probation Officers in selective schools in our county. Of course this was expensive and when the grant ended so did the program.

I don't need to watch a documentary, I visited these schools during that 3-year assignment and found a couple things of interest: School Administrators were not all receptive to LE being on campus, and didn't buy into the program; the kids provided valuable information to the officers, which led to interventions the school authorities & regular patrol might never have uncovered; and, turf issues prevented a closer relationship between LE, Teachers and the Juv. Court Judge.

I would like to have established Youth Court's (look that up, there is lots of material on this program) in the several School Districts within the County. Once again turf issues prevented us from implementing this public/private sector program using volunteers as mentors and students as court personnel.

Waiting for Superman has NOTHING to do with LE or legal infractions in schools. It's about parents who are at their WITS END trying to get their kids OUT of failing schools. And all they have is a LOTTERY that issues tickets to PROVEN schools where the odds are less then 1 in 100 that their child will be saved.

No time for experimentation for THOSE parents. They can't WAIT another 30 years to fix ANYTHING. Watch it...

Too bad for them, they can move, the can home school and they can get a second or third job to pay for a private school of their choice - it's called personal responsibility, something the right claims when it is convenient, and ignores when it is not.

Don't NEED to move. Innovators and problem solvers put TOGETHER schools in their community that WORK. DEMONSTRABLY. And the concerned parents want MORE of it.

It's a sick ass govt that would tell them to MOVE or home-school without ACKNOWLEDGING the success of these innovators and problem solvers. ALREADY examples of what works. The only bias is "concerned parents" apply for that 1 in 200 chance to get entry via lottery. Otherwise the "lottery" is blind to economics or race or other factors.

So --- FIX THE DAMN problem for the CONCERNED parents. And THEN figure out what to do with the rest.

 

[Unkotare]

None! Use computers intelligently like some people were talking about in 1996:

Bennett

Our educators can't even create a curated National Recommended Reading List.

The textbook publishing business would not like that. How many useless variations in math books have been published in the last 50 years?

Posted for the 100000000000000000000th time.

 

[mgh80]

Not the worst idea...but education is already severely underfunded...this would cost billions to implement (more teachers, paying students, more physical buildings, more supplies, more trainers/trainings, more evaluations, etc).

 

[mgh80]

If you can't make someone employable after 12 years of schooling, you never will.

Considering you can't count to 13....this actually sums up why education is so important.