Ben Stein Speaks

[Political Junky]

Ben Stein has extreme views but I have a hard time believing he would come out with such an extreme and ridiculous view of Obama.

There are reasons to criticize Obama but when such ridiculous statements are made there is absolutely no credibility. It is hate speech driven by emotion not logic. I wonder what the basis of Ben Stein's extreme hatred of Obama?

Pure partisanship accounts for Stein's hatred.

 

[Sinatra]

AH! Ken Miller is an interesting gentleman! His lecture style is both entertaining and informative, and I found his book Finding Darwin's God to be very well done. He is making a ton of $$$ off of this debate and good on him - though I do believe his attacks on IE are very tactical in this regard. He dislikes the lack of clear science behind IE - but that science is forming and Miller's work is, and will, play a critical part in that formation.

His place in the ongoing debate over this ever-changing topic is further evidence of the wobbly legs of those who decree evolution as "absolute", for Miller himself has received retributive attacks from such evolution luminaries as the Richard Dawkins. While Miller fits within the broad role of "liberal Christian", Dawkins and his ilk are devout atheists - utilizing the evolution theory as the final stake in the heart of creationism theory. Dawkins despises Miller's belief system - if not Miller personally. Where Miller comfortably combines Evolution with Divinity, Dawkins works in the plane of absolutes. There is no place for God - no place for purpose, no place for the concept of good, evil, - just "blind, pitiless, indifference." (Of course science is Dawkins' God, and evolution his religion, but that is another topic for another time...)

Miller, while not a full on proponent of IE - is something of an intellectual bridge between IE and the likes of Dawkins' atheism, making Miller the academic equivalent of John the Baptist.

Here is a quick version of Miller's thoughts...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pZRyVX9bY]YouTube - Kenneth Miller--Finding God in Evolution[/ame]

And thank you for the discussion - nice to get a bit of intelligent interplay in this place from time to time!

 

[geauxtohell]

AH! Ken Miller is an interesting gentleman! His lecture style is both entertaining and informative, and I found his book Finding Darwin's God to be very well done. He is making a ton of $$$ off of this debate and good on him - though I do believe his attacks on IE are very tactical in this regard. He dislikes the lack of clear science behind IE - but that science is forming and Miller's work is, and will, play a critical part in that formation.

His place in the ongoing debate over this ever-changing topic is further evidence of the wobbly legs of those who decree evolution as "absolute", for Miller himself has received retributive attacks from such evolution luminaries as the Richard Dawkins. While Miller fits within the broad role of "liberal Christian", Dawkins and his ilk are devout atheists - utilizing the evolution theory as the final stake in the heart of creationism theory. Dawkins despises Miller's belief system - if not Miller personally. Where Miller comfortably combines Evolution with Divinity, Dawkins works in the plane of absolutes. There is no place for God - no place for purpose, no place for the concept of good, evil, - just "blind, pitiless, indifference." (Of course science is Dawkins' God, and evolution his religion, but that is another topic for another time...)

Miller, while not a full on proponent of IE - is something of an intellectual bridge between IE and the likes of Dawkins' atheism, making Miller the academic equivalent of John the Baptist.

Here is a quick version of Miller's thoughts...

YouTube - Kenneth Miller--Finding God in Evolution

I think it's a stretch to claim that Miller wants to create an intellectual bridge between ID (the same as IE I assume?) and evolution. Miller has always opposed ID on it's face, simply because the basic premise of ID is flawed (scientifically) and no amount of bench research (which the Discovery Institute refuses to do) can change that.

I think Miller's key point is that you being an evolutionist does not mean you have to be an athiest. You can believe in God and be a sound scientist. You just can't introduce the devine or supernatural into your scientific work. That is not unique to science, most human ventures frown upon interjecting religious belief into them as well. Case in point, a police officer who is a Mormon couldn't cite someone for drinking a coke.

In that regard I agree with Miller. Furthermore, I think it is just as idiotic for Dawkins to use science to try and disprove the existance of God as it is for the Discovery institute to do the opposite. Science should be totally neutral on the existance of God, because it is above the scope of science to answer that question. There is a reason Dawkins writes novels on this subject (other than the $), he could never get a peer review of a paper that tried to disprove the existance of God.

And thank you for the discussion - nice to get a bit of intelligent interplay in this place from time to time!

You too. It's an area of interest for me.

 

[Xenophon]

- Bueller? Ferris Bueller - wake up. That means the rest of you too.

The American Spectator : We've Figured Him Out

We've Figured Him Out
By Ben Stein on 7.24.09 @ 9:45AM


Why is President Barack Obama in such a hurry to get his socialized medicine bill passed?

Because he and his cunning circle realize some basic truths:

The American people in their unimaginable kindness and trust voted for a pig in a poke in 2008. They wanted so much to believe Barack Obama was somehow better and different from other ultra-leftists that they simply took him on faith.

They ignored his anti-white writings in his books. They ignored his quiet acceptance of hysterical anti-American diatribes by his minister, Jeremiah Wright.

They ignored his refusal to explain years at a time of his life as a student. They ignored his ultra-left record as a "community organizer," Illinois state legislator, and Senator.

The American people ignored his total zero of an academic record as a student and teacher, his complete lack of scholarship when he was being touted as a scholar.

Now, the American people are starting to wake up to the truth. Barack Obama is a super likeable super leftist, not a fan of this country, way, way too cozy with the terrorist leaders in the Middle East, way beyond naïveté, all the way into active destruction of our interests and our allies and our future.

The American people have already awakened to the truth that the stimulus bill -- a great idea in theory -- was really an immense bribe to Democrat interest groups, and in no way an effort to help all Americans.

Now, Americans are waking up to the truth that ObamaCare basically means that every time you are sick or injured, you will have a clerk from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling your doctor what he can and cannot do.

The American people already know that Mr. Obama's plan to lower health costs while expanding coverage and bureaucracy is a myth, a promise of something that never was and never will be -- a bureaucracy lowering costs in a free society. Either the costs go up or the free society goes away.

These are perilous times. Mrs. Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, has given Iran the go-ahead to have nuclear weapons, an unqualified betrayal of the nation. Now, we face a devastating loss of freedom at home in health care. It will be joined by controls on our lives to "protect us" from global warming, itself largely a fraud if believed to be caused by man.
Mr. Obama knows Americans are getting wise and will stop him if he delays at all in taking away our freedoms.

There is his urgency and our opportunity. Once freedom is lost, America is lost. Wake up, beloved America.

We live in a society -
"of the Government, by the Government, for the Government".
We are now slaves to A GREEDY government.

Ol Ben is 100% correct, but many of us saw this to be the case before the boi king was elected.

It is fun to watch the Obamatrons act as the Bushbots of old, attacking everyone as a 'hack' or partisan that sheds the light of truth on the false messiah.

 

[Modbert]

Stein is correct.

And his missive on the massive pressures within the academic world regarding religion and evolution was an interesting work. Not fully comprehensive mind you, but both interesting and important.

Stein is in his own little world. The guy defended Nixon over Woodward and later Felt. He also rejects Evolution and embraces Creationism greatly. Those things alone would make me question whether his opinion can be trusted.

 

[Chris]

- Bueller? Ferris Bueller - wake up. That means the rest of you too.

The American Spectator : We've Figured Him Out

We've Figured Him Out
By Ben Stein on 7.24.09 @ 9:45AM


Why is President Barack Obama in such a hurry to get his socialized medicine bill passed?

Because he and his cunning circle realize some basic truths:

The American people in their unimaginable kindness and trust voted for a pig in a poke in 2008. They wanted so much to believe Barack Obama was somehow better and different from other ultra-leftists that they simply took him on faith.

They ignored his anti-white writings in his books. They ignored his quiet acceptance of hysterical anti-American diatribes by his minister, Jeremiah Wright.

They ignored his refusal to explain years at a time of his life as a student. They ignored his ultra-left record as a "community organizer," Illinois state legislator, and Senator.

The American people ignored his total zero of an academic record as a student and teacher, his complete lack of scholarship when he was being touted as a scholar.

Now, the American people are starting to wake up to the truth. Barack Obama is a super likeable super leftist, not a fan of this country, way, way too cozy with the terrorist leaders in the Middle East, way beyond naïveté, all the way into active destruction of our interests and our allies and our future.

The American people have already awakened to the truth that the stimulus bill -- a great idea in theory -- was really an immense bribe to Democrat interest groups, and in no way an effort to help all Americans.

Now, Americans are waking up to the truth that ObamaCare basically means that every time you are sick or injured, you will have a clerk from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling your doctor what he can and cannot do.

The American people already know that Mr. Obama's plan to lower health costs while expanding coverage and bureaucracy is a myth, a promise of something that never was and never will be -- a bureaucracy lowering costs in a free society. Either the costs go up or the free society goes away.

These are perilous times. Mrs. Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, has given Iran the go-ahead to have nuclear weapons, an unqualified betrayal of the nation. Now, we face a devastating loss of freedom at home in health care. It will be joined by controls on our lives to "protect us" from global warming, itself largely a fraud if believed to be caused by man.
Mr. Obama knows Americans are getting wise and will stop him if he delays at all in taking away our freedoms.

There is his urgency and our opportunity. Once freedom is lost, America is lost. Wake up, beloved America.

We live in a society -
"of the Government, by the Government, for the Government".
We are now slaves to A GREEDY government.

Ben Stein is an idiot.

Every other Western democracy has a single payer healthcare system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare.

 

[Sarah G]

Ben Stein has extreme views but I have a hard time believing he would come out with such an extreme and ridiculous view of Obama.

There are reasons to criticize Obama but when such ridiculous statements are made there is absolutely no credibility. It is hate speech driven by emotion not logic. I wonder what the basis of Ben Stein's extreme hatred of Obama?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Obama is good at countering these attacks though.

 

[Chris]

Ben Stein has extreme views but I have a hard time believing he would come out with such an extreme and ridiculous view of Obama.

There are reasons to criticize Obama but when such ridiculous statements are made there is absolutely no credibility. It is hate speech driven by emotion not logic. I wonder what the basis of Ben Stein's extreme hatred of Obama?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Obama is good at countering these attacks though.

The Republicans are evil, pure and simple.

They used to have principles before Reagan.

 

[Sarah G]

Ben Stein has extreme views but I have a hard time believing he would come out with such an extreme and ridiculous view of Obama.

There are reasons to criticize Obama but when such ridiculous statements are made there is absolutely no credibility. It is hate speech driven by emotion not logic. I wonder what the basis of Ben Stein's extreme hatred of Obama?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Obama is good at countering these attacks though.

The Republicans are evil, pure and simple.

They used to have principles before Reagan.

Nixon had principles?

 

[Chris]

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Obama is good at countering these attacks though.

The Republicans are evil, pure and simple.

They used to have principles before Reagan.

Nixon had principles?

Good point.

I was thinking more of Goldwater.

Goldwater has a great chapter in his autobiography entitled, "Unelected Rulers."

Read it if you get the chance.

 

[Oscar Wao]

The Republicans are evil, pure and simple.

They used to have principles before Reagan.

Nixon had principles?

Good point.

I was thinking more of Goldwater.

Goldwater has a great chapter in his autobiography entitled, "Unelected Rulers."

Read it if you get the chance.

You'd probably crucify Goldwater if he were around today, too.

 

[editec]

Once freedom is lost?

Shit, Ben, where the fuck have you been?

 

[midcan5]

Stein is outright silly, his title is often economist, would you take advice from someone who argues against scientific fact. It is interesting how tools like him survive and operate in the nether world of blind corporate worship. Proves if you know nothing, but only repeat the words that please the powers to be, any buffoon can do well.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ben Stein has extreme views but I have a hard time believing he would come out with such an extreme and ridiculous view of Obama.

There are reasons to criticize Obama but when such ridiculous statements are made there is absolutely no credibility. It is hate speech driven by emotion not logic. I wonder what the basis of Ben Stein's extreme hatred of Obama?

He and Glenn Beck are bosom buddies.

 

[MaggieMae]

- Bueller? Ferris Bueller - wake up. That means the rest of you too.

The American Spectator : We've Figured Him Out

We've Figured Him Out
By Ben Stein on 7.24.09 @ 9:45AM


Why is President Barack Obama in such a hurry to get his socialized medicine bill passed?

Because he and his cunning circle realize some basic truths:

The American people in their unimaginable kindness and trust voted for a pig in a poke in 2008. They wanted so much to believe Barack Obama was somehow better and different from other ultra-leftists that they simply took him on faith.

They ignored his anti-white writings in his books. They ignored his quiet acceptance of hysterical anti-American diatribes by his minister, Jeremiah Wright.

They ignored his refusal to explain years at a time of his life as a student. They ignored his ultra-left record as a "community organizer," Illinois state legislator, and Senator.

The American people ignored his total zero of an academic record as a student and teacher, his complete lack of scholarship when he was being touted as a scholar.

Now, the American people are starting to wake up to the truth. Barack Obama is a super likeable super leftist, not a fan of this country, way, way too cozy with the terrorist leaders in the Middle East, way beyond naïveté, all the way into active destruction of our interests and our allies and our future.

The American people have already awakened to the truth that the stimulus bill -- a great idea in theory -- was really an immense bribe to Democrat interest groups, and in no way an effort to help all Americans.

Now, Americans are waking up to the truth that ObamaCare basically means that every time you are sick or injured, you will have a clerk from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling your doctor what he can and cannot do.

The American people already know that Mr. Obama's plan to lower health costs while expanding coverage and bureaucracy is a myth, a promise of something that never was and never will be -- a bureaucracy lowering costs in a free society. Either the costs go up or the free society goes away.

These are perilous times. Mrs. Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, has given Iran the go-ahead to have nuclear weapons, an unqualified betrayal of the nation. Now, we face a devastating loss of freedom at home in health care. It will be joined by controls on our lives to "protect us" from global warming, itself largely a fraud if believed to be caused by man.
Mr. Obama knows Americans are getting wise and will stop him if he delays at all in taking away our freedoms.

There is his urgency and our opportunity. Once freedom is lost, America is lost. Wake up, beloved America.

We live in a society -
"of the Government, by the Government, for the Government".
We are now slaves to A GREEDY government.

Ol Ben is 100% correct, but many of us saw this to be the case before the boi king was elected.

It is fun to watch the Obamatrons act as the Bushbots of old, attacking everyone as a 'hack' or partisan that sheds the light of truth on the false messiah.

Truth? When did perceptions translated into opinions represent "truth"?? Where are the facts (truth) about bribes, cozying up to terrorists, deliberately causing the 'destruction' of America?

That article repeats talking points from the RWNM that I see/hear on a daily basis. It's not even original in thought.

 

[Political Junky]

Nixon had principles?

Good point.

I was thinking more of Goldwater.

Goldwater has a great chapter in his autobiography entitled, "Unelected Rulers."

Read it if you get the chance.

You'd probably crucify Goldwater if he were around today, too.

I think it would be republicans who would crucify Goldwater. He approved of Gays in the military.
Hell, they'd crucify Jesus all over again, calling him a radical leftist.

 

[Shogun]

seriously. who the hell REALLY gives a damn about the opinion of Ben Stein? Were it not for Jeff Spikoly, Visine and a semi interesting game show he'd be wasting away as another D list actor in Holywood.

 

[Sinatra]

seriously. who the hell REALLY gives a damn about the opinion of Ben Stein? Were it not for Jeff Spikoly, Visine and a semi interesting game show he'd be wasting away as another D list actor in Holywood.

As opposed to your stellar career on these forums.

Keep it up Hol(l)ywood...

 

[Shogun]

seriously. who the hell REALLY gives a damn about the opinion of Ben Stein? Were it not for Jeff Spikoly, Visine and a semi interesting game show he'd be wasting away as another D list actor in Holywood.

As opposed to your stellar career on these forums.

Keep it up Hol(l)ywood...

My "Career" on these forums? Wait, can you hold please? I've got Kathy Griffin's opinion on the economy and that guy who played cop#3 in Die Hard ready to post his theses on Global Trade. SURELY you CARE!

 

[Sinatra]

seriously. who the hell REALLY gives a damn about the opinion of Ben Stein? Were it not for Jeff Spikoly, Visine and a semi interesting game show he'd be wasting away as another D list actor in Holywood.

As opposed to your stellar career on these forums.

Keep it up Hol(l)ywood...

My "Career" on these forums? Wait, can you hold please? I've got Kathy Griffin's opinion on the economy and that guy who played cop#3 in Die Hard ready to post his theses on Global Trade. SURELY you CARE!

You are attempting sarcasm - badly.

Keep up the effort though - you might one day be a D-List poster...