Ben Franklin

[AllieBaba]

Childbirth is still a risky and deadly propositiion, and women still die from it. I almost died miscarrying my fifth child at 6-1/2 months, and had a couple of very tense deliveries.

My mom was the youngest of 11 chidlren. I always wanted at least 5. Of course, I wanted them all with one man, which wasn't in the cards for me. All of my grandmother's children lived, as did all of her siblings. My grandfather was one of many, and all of his siblings lived (Hungarian immigrants at the turn of the century). He did break his back at 14 while throwing firecrackers at people walking by on the street while he was on the roof of their harness shop.

My mother grew up in the coastal mountains, her oldest brother was 20 when she was born, and she had one cnephew who was older than she was. My grandmother never worked outside of the home....but my grandfather worked inthe woods and had a small sawmill. For a while he ran a still, until the feds came and tok him away to prison for 6 months...during which time my grandmother fed the family by taking eggs and milk (on horseback) to the nearest town and selling them at the store. My aunties gathered fern and other greenery and also sold them....I don't know who their go-between was, but florists buy them. They did that until they were old ladies.

I would have loved to have many children. None of my mom's siblings died. I'm so happy I have my younger children, they've been such a joy to the whole family...and the family was so skeptical because of who their father was, and concerned about how they would turn out (I have a blind spot for men and telephone companies. I can't seem to figure them out, so I've written them both off). But they have turned out to be the treasure of my family.

Birth control has undboutedly saved untold misery among many women. But I would have happily had a baby a year for 20 years, if I could have lived the way my grandma did. There is nothing in the world so joyful as a big family.

 

[Care4all]

so, as women, do you think we are better off with Birth Control, with some sort of control over when our children are born or not born?

And isn't the same result from birth control pills, less children being BORN, the same end result as abortion...less children being born?

Is sex A-ok whenever one wants with whoever one wants, in a commitment or not in a commitment, as long as they do NOT get pregnant? If this is the case, did this attitude extend from having birth control pills and other methods of protection?

I don't know if any of you have watched those different shows on tv that take one thing, like a tire iron or something silly like that, and then traces backwards in time and history to where, if something had not been invented some 3000 years ago, the tire iron would never have been invented or created?

I suppose I am trying to look back, on the pill and wondering what it would have been like without it and whether we truly would have been better off or not?

Google was invented just for situations such as this.....

I don't think google can speculate in the manner that I am looking for 925, in the response of people/posters.... it could answer my invention of the BC pill questions and some history, but not really on the speculation of what it would have been like for women without it, today.

Care

 

[RodISHI]

so, as women, do you think we are better off with Birth Control, with some sort of control over when our children are born or not born?

And isn't the same result from birth control pills, less children being BORN, the same end result as abortion...less children being born?

Is sex A-ok whenever one wants with whoever one wants, in a commitment or not in a commitment, as long as they do NOT get pregnant? If this is the case, did this attitude extend from having birth control pills and other methods of protection?

I don't know if any of you have watched those different shows on tv that take one thing, like a tire iron or something silly like that, and then traces backwards in time and history to where, if something had not been invented some 3000 years ago, the tire iron would never have been invented or created?

I suppose I am trying to look back, on the pill and wondering what it would have been like without it and whether we truly would have been better off or not?

I would not say birth control pills are necessarily a good thing. My daughter took the pill for several years. She ended up having blood clots from taking them... There are major health risks that doctors do not fully explain to young women when they prescribe these meds. Daughter went off of birth control pills when her doctor had her on meds for three years to combat the blood clots.....she'd been hospitalized a half a dozen times over these blood clots. Daughter get's pg while taking Coumadin Medically it should be impossible for her to be pg but she was. The guy tells her there is a cure for that. She tells him she would be getting rid of him not the baby as babies are from God... So out third grandson was born even though doctors would say he should not have been able to survive the meds.
My daughter had to have surgery the year before last to remove her cancerous uterus.

excerpt Mayo clinic.....Still, the birth control pill is a potent estrogen. Lessons learned from women who took diethylstilbestrol — a synthetic estrogen that was later linked with cancer — to prevent miscarriage in early pregnancy suggest that such exposure should be minimized.

 

[Care4all]

ok, let's try this...At the time of the creation and legal passage of the Birth Control Pill, society or a certain sect of society, (primarily the "religious" but many and most were religious sort of, still back then imo) thought that Birth Control Pills were a "slippery slope"....and some people were against the passage of legalizing them and even to this day, many insurance companies do not cover them under their insurance policies while Viagra is covered by all of the Insurance companies...so they STILL can get away with not covering them because of the ill feeling of the adults back at that time of legalization or some sort of male chauvinistic reason, I suppose? I am just wondering exactly what the slippery slope actually was for the most back then and IF, it really has come to pass as their doomsday scenarios predicted?

I suppose we really need some more old geezer women or men that were around back then and cognizant of the issue to give their opinion on this from recollection or we can speculate, which I am fine with...

 

[DamnYankee]

so, as women, do you think we are better off with Birth Control, with some sort of control over when our children are born or not born?

And isn't the same result from birth control pills, less children being BORN, the same end result as abortion...less children being born?

Is sex A-ok whenever one wants with whoever one wants, in a commitment or not in a commitment, as long as they do NOT get pregnant? If this is the case, did this attitude extend from having birth control pills and other methods of protection?

I don't know if any of you have watched those different shows on tv that take one thing, like a tire iron or something silly like that, and then traces backwards in time and history to where, if something had not been invented some 3000 years ago, the tire iron would never have been invented or created?

I suppose I am trying to look back, on the pill and wondering what it would have been like without it and whether we truly would have been better off or not?

Google was invented just for situations such as this.....

I don't think google can speculate in the manner that I am looking for 925, in the response of people/posters.... it could answer my invention of the BC pill questions and some history, but not really on the speculation of what it would have been like for women without it, today.

Care

<chuckle> You'd mostly likely be shocked then at the "speculation" I've been able to Google.... Mostly tomes by those "Christians" again.... <sg>

Okay, let's start with this, since I've already read your next post, and Rodisihi's personal experience (well.... not hers exactly).

The Combined Oral Contraceptive Pill (COCP), often referred to as the birth-control pill, or simply "the Pill", is a combination of an estrogen (oestrogen) and a progestin (progestogen), taken by mouth to inhibit normal female fertility. They were first approved for contraceptive use in the United States in 1960, and are a very popular form of birth control. They are currently used by more than 100 million women worldwide and by almost 12 million women in the United States.[1][2] Usage varies widely by country,[3] age, education, and marital status: one quarter of women aged 16–49 in Great Britain currently use the Pill (combined pill or progestogen only pill ("minipill")),[4] compared to only 1% of women in Japan.[5]
Combined oral contraceptive pill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, what we know is that the pill was legalized in 1960. We also know that there are varying degrees of the hormones in different brands of the pill. Probably a lot of continued research went into that.

Common sense also allows us to know that contraception is not the only use for the pill. Oh, and if we're keeping up with the news, we also know that insurance DOES pay for the pill as well as erectile dysfunction "fixes" -- it just took us a little longer to convince our male doctors that the pill was medically necessary, since we seem to get in a tizzy if the penis doesn't work. Kinda contradictory, huh?

I'm not anxious to contribute to the "personal experience". This is a public (easily accessible by anyone) forum after all. Supposition? There are women now who, with all the education and tools at their disposal, still manage to f*ck up their lives with unintended pregnancies. I suspect that women, in general, would have progressed sexually just as they did in other areas of their lives through the efforts of the women of the sufferage era.

 

[Care4all]

fyi all biz 925...in 2000 as many as 50% of insurance policies still did not cover birth control pills under their policies for one reason or another

Health Insurance & Birth Control on MedicineNet.com

and even now....in 2009 there is no guarantee that they do, in most states...

Insure.com FAQ: Why do some insurance companies cover Viagra but mine does not cover prescription contraceptives?

Health Insurance: Frequently asked questions

Question:
It's not fair that some health insurance companies are covering Viagra but my company doesn't cover prescription contraceptives.

Answer:

It's true that many health insurers started covering Viagra after men began scrambling for this impotency "wonder drug" and yet they don't cover contraceptives. But there's been a movement afoot to make it an equal playing field.

There are 24 states that have enacted laws requiring group health insurance companies to cover prescription contraceptives if they cover other prescription drugs and devices, and other states have similar proposals pending, according to the National Women's Law Center in Washington, D.C. The National Conference of State Legislatures reported in 2009 that mandates in two states, Texas and Virginia, require that employers be offered the option to include coverage of contraceptives within their group health plans. Some laws prohibit insurance group plans from excluding contraceptive services and supplies. Other states also recognize an exemption for employers that object to contraceptive coverage for religious reasons. And several states require employers to notify employees of their refusal to provide contraceptive coverage.

Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas and West Virginia have mandate exemptions based primarily on "religious reasons" for insurers and employers. Opponents of these laws say they will drive up the cost of health insurance. Advocates contend that the estimated cost of $30 per month for birth control is much cheaper than the cost of unplanned pregnancies.

To see if your state is among those that have enacted laws, read about pill bills: States that mandate contraceptive equality.

 

[DamnYankee]

fyi all biz 925...in 2000 as many as 50% of insurance policies still did not cover birth control pills under their policies for one reason or another

Health Insurance & Birth Control on MedicineNet.com

and even now....in 2009 there is no guarantee that they do, in most states...

Insure.com FAQ: Why do some insurance companies cover Viagra but mine does not cover prescription contraceptives?

Health Insurance: Frequently asked questions

Question:
It's not fair that some health insurance companies are covering Viagra but my company doesn't cover prescription contraceptives.

Answer:

It's true that many health insurers started covering Viagra after men began scrambling for this impotency "wonder drug" and yet they don't cover contraceptives. But there's been a movement afoot to make it an equal playing field.

There are 24 states that have enacted laws requiring group health insurance companies to cover prescription contraceptives if they cover other prescription drugs and devices, and other states have similar proposals pending, according to the National Women's Law Center in Washington, D.C. The National Conference of State Legislatures reported in 2009 that mandates in two states, Texas and Virginia, require that employers be offered the option to include coverage of contraceptives within their group health plans. Some laws prohibit insurance group plans from excluding contraceptive services and supplies. Other states also recognize an exemption for employers that object to contraceptive coverage for religious reasons. And several states require employers to notify employees of their refusal to provide contraceptive coverage.

Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas and West Virginia have mandate exemptions based primarily on "religious reasons" for insurers and employers. Opponents of these laws say they will drive up the cost of health insurance. Advocates contend that the estimated cost of $30 per month for birth control is much cheaper than the cost of unplanned pregnancies.

To see if your state is among those that have enacted laws, read about pill bills: States that mandate contraceptive equality.

Wow.... In 2000, huh? Recall that I said "keeping up with the news"?

How Much Does It Cost?
The Pill usually costs between $20 and $50 a month, depending on the type. Many health and family planning clinics (such as Planned Parenthood) sell birth control pills for less. In addition, birth control pills and doctor visits are covered by many health insurance plans.

Reviewed by: Larissa Hirsch, MD
Date reviewed: February 2007
Originally reviewed by: Neil Izenberg, MD, and George A. Macones, MD
Birth Control Pill

Typical costs:
For patients not covered by health insurance, birth control pills typically cost $20 to $50 a month.
For patients covered by health insurance, out-of-pocket costs typically consist of a prescription drug copay. Most insurance plans offer the lowest copays on generic medication -- usually $5 to $15 -- and higher copays of $30 to $40 for non-preferred brands.
Birth control pills, the most commonly covered contraceptive, are covered by more than 80 percent of health insurance plans, according to the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals. And in some states, it's mandatory; the Kaiser Family Foundation lists 33 states that require coverage of birth control.
Additional costs:
Birth control pills are available only with a prescription; getting one requires visiting a doctor for a pelvic exam and sexually transmitted disease tests. This can cost $35 to $200, or a copay of $10 to $30 for patients covered by health insurance.
Discounts:
Clinics such as those operated by Planned Parenthood offer discounted birth control pills to women who qualify. And most college campus health centers do the same for enrolled students.
In most states, Wal-Mart, Target and Kroger pharmacies offer a limited selection of generic birth control pills for $9 per month.
Shopping for birth control pills:
To get a prescription for birth control pills, make an appointment with your general practitioner, gynecologist or a clinic. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists offers a physician locator by state and Planned Parenthood offers a clinic locator by zip code. Or, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services offers a local clinic locator by city or zip code.
Birth control pills are not recommended for women who have had blood clots, have serious heart or liver disease, have had breast or uterine cancer, or are over 35 and smoke.
According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, risks include dizziness, nausea, changes in cycle, changes in mood, weight gain, high blood pressure, blood clots, heart attack and stroke.
Article updated August 2008
Cost of Birth Control Pills - Get Information and Cost Guidelines - CostHelper.com


Oh.... and you recall what I said about convincing our doctors of "medical necessity"??

Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice"
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jul 16, 2008 7:30pm
Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice" | Crooks and Liars

"My clock is ticking.... The dick isn't...." <snicker>

 

[Cecilie1200]

Large numbers of children were common, most of them never made it out of childhood.

People in general only lived to their 40s in that period, Ben was an exception living into his 80s.

This is very true. My grandmother was married at the age of twelve, had her first child at 13, and went on to have - I think - 13 children in total. Only five or six made it to adulthood, and one of them had narcolepsy and died in his early twenties.

The "support structure" for mothers was the kids themselves, by and large. I know my daughter, who was six when her brother was born, was a big help taking care of him, and now at thirteen he is a HUGE babysitting aid to the six-month-old. It also wasn't uncommon to have older relatives and unmarried female relatives living in the home.

 

[Care4all]

fyi all biz 925...in 2000 as many as 50% of insurance policies still did not cover birth control pills under their policies for one reason or another

Health Insurance & Birth Control on MedicineNet.com

and even now....in 2009 there is no guarantee that they do, in most states...

Insure.com FAQ: Why do some insurance companies cover Viagra but mine does not cover prescription contraceptives?

Health Insurance: Frequently asked questions

Question:
It's not fair that some health insurance companies are covering Viagra but my company doesn't cover prescription contraceptives.

Answer:

It's true that many health insurers started covering Viagra after men began scrambling for this impotency "wonder drug" and yet they don't cover contraceptives. But there's been a movement afoot to make it an equal playing field.

There are 24 states that have enacted laws requiring group health insurance companies to cover prescription contraceptives if they cover other prescription drugs and devices, and other states have similar proposals pending, according to the National Women's Law Center in Washington, D.C. The National Conference of State Legislatures reported in 2009 that mandates in two states, Texas and Virginia, require that employers be offered the option to include coverage of contraceptives within their group health plans. Some laws prohibit insurance group plans from excluding contraceptive services and supplies. Other states also recognize an exemption for employers that object to contraceptive coverage for religious reasons. And several states require employers to notify employees of their refusal to provide contraceptive coverage.

Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas and West Virginia have mandate exemptions based primarily on "religious reasons" for insurers and employers. Opponents of these laws say they will drive up the cost of health insurance. Advocates contend that the estimated cost of $30 per month for birth control is much cheaper than the cost of unplanned pregnancies.

To see if your state is among those that have enacted laws, read about pill bills: States that mandate contraceptive equality.

Wow.... In 2000, huh? Recall that I said "keeping up with the news"?

How Much Does It Cost?
The Pill usually costs between $20 and $50 a month, depending on the type. Many health and family planning clinics (such as Planned Parenthood) sell birth control pills for less. In addition, birth control pills and doctor visits are covered by many health insurance plans.

Reviewed by: Larissa Hirsch, MD
Date reviewed: February 2007
Originally reviewed by: Neil Izenberg, MD, and George A. Macones, MD
Birth Control Pill

Typical costs:
For patients not covered by health insurance, birth control pills typically cost $20 to $50 a month.
For patients covered by health insurance, out-of-pocket costs typically consist of a prescription drug copay. Most insurance plans offer the lowest copays on generic medication -- usually $5 to $15 -- and higher copays of $30 to $40 for non-preferred brands.
Birth control pills, the most commonly covered contraceptive, are covered by more than 80 percent of health insurance plans, according to the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals. And in some states, it's mandatory; the Kaiser Family Foundation lists 33 states that require coverage of birth control.
Additional costs:
Birth control pills are available only with a prescription; getting one requires visiting a doctor for a pelvic exam and sexually transmitted disease tests. This can cost $35 to $200, or a copay of $10 to $30 for patients covered by health insurance.
Discounts:
Clinics such as those operated by Planned Parenthood offer discounted birth control pills to women who qualify. And most college campus health centers do the same for enrolled students.
In most states, Wal-Mart, Target and Kroger pharmacies offer a limited selection of generic birth control pills for $9 per month.
Shopping for birth control pills:
To get a prescription for birth control pills, make an appointment with your general practitioner, gynecologist or a clinic. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists offers a physician locator by state and Planned Parenthood offers a clinic locator by zip code. Or, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services offers a local clinic locator by city or zip code.
Birth control pills are not recommended for women who have had blood clots, have serious heart or liver disease, have had breast or uterine cancer, or are over 35 and smoke.
According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, risks include dizziness, nausea, changes in cycle, changes in mood, weight gain, high blood pressure, blood clots, heart attack and stroke.
Article updated August 2008
Cost of Birth Control Pills - Get Information and Cost Guidelines - CostHelper.com


Oh.... and you recall what I said about convincing our doctors of "medical necessity"??

Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice"
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jul 16, 2008 7:30pm
Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice" | Crooks and Liars

"My clock is ticking.... The dick isn't...." <snicker>

i gave 2 links, the article i posted in quotes regarding birth control and insurance coverage is from 2009, not the year 2000, 925? you are quoting 2007 and we were not discussing the cost of them or planned parenthood distribution, we were talking about health insurance coverage for them?

thx for the link...
the idea that men deem them not a necessity for women while viagra is a necessity is a joke, and living in the male dominated mind think of the dark ages!!!!!!!!!

 

[DamnYankee]

Large numbers of children were common, most of them never made it out of childhood.

People in general only lived to their 40s in that period, Ben was an exception living into his 80s.

This is very true. My grandmother was married at the age of twelve, had her first child at 13, and went on to have - I think - 13 children in total. Only five or six made it to adulthood, and one of them had narcolepsy and died in his early twenties.

The "support structure" for mothers was the kids themselves, by and large. I know my daughter, who was six when her brother was born, was a big help taking care of him, and now at thirteen he is a HUGE babysitting aid to the six-month-old. It also wasn't uncommon to have older relatives and unmarried female relatives living in the home.

So, you feel it's perfectly acceptable to USE YOUR CHILDREN as ADULT SUPPORTS? Interesting.... And here I was believing that it was a PARENTS JOB to RAISE THE CHILDREN, and to TEACH THEM to BECOME ADULTS by example, while PROVIDING THEM with THEIR BASIC NEEDS.

Oh, and a scientific basis for that belief....
Handbook of Parenting: Practical ... - Google Books

 

[DamnYankee]

fyi all biz 925...in 2000 as many as 50% of insurance policies still did not cover birth control pills under their policies for one reason or another

Health Insurance & Birth Control on MedicineNet.com

and even now....in 2009 there is no guarantee that they do, in most states...

Insure.com FAQ: Why do some insurance companies cover Viagra but mine does not cover prescription contraceptives?

Wow.... In 2000, huh? Recall that I said "keeping up with the news"?

How Much Does It Cost?
The Pill usually costs between $20 and $50 a month, depending on the type. Many health and family planning clinics (such as Planned Parenthood) sell birth control pills for less. In addition, birth control pills and doctor visits are covered by many health insurance plans.

Reviewed by: Larissa Hirsch, MD
Date reviewed: February 2007
Originally reviewed by: Neil Izenberg, MD, and George A. Macones, MD
Birth Control Pill

Typical costs:
For patients not covered by health insurance, birth control pills typically cost $20 to $50 a month.
For patients covered by health insurance, out-of-pocket costs typically consist of a prescription drug copay. Most insurance plans offer the lowest copays on generic medication -- usually $5 to $15 -- and higher copays of $30 to $40 for non-preferred brands.
Birth control pills, the most commonly covered contraceptive, are covered by more than 80 percent of health insurance plans, according to the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals. And in some states, it's mandatory; the Kaiser Family Foundation lists 33 states that require coverage of birth control.
Additional costs:
Birth control pills are available only with a prescription; getting one requires visiting a doctor for a pelvic exam and sexually transmitted disease tests. This can cost $35 to $200, or a copay of $10 to $30 for patients covered by health insurance.
Discounts:
Clinics such as those operated by Planned Parenthood offer discounted birth control pills to women who qualify. And most college campus health centers do the same for enrolled students.
In most states, Wal-Mart, Target and Kroger pharmacies offer a limited selection of generic birth control pills for $9 per month.
Shopping for birth control pills:
To get a prescription for birth control pills, make an appointment with your general practitioner, gynecologist or a clinic. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists offers a physician locator by state and Planned Parenthood offers a clinic locator by zip code. Or, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services offers a local clinic locator by city or zip code.
Birth control pills are not recommended for women who have had blood clots, have serious heart or liver disease, have had breast or uterine cancer, or are over 35 and smoke.
According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, risks include dizziness, nausea, changes in cycle, changes in mood, weight gain, high blood pressure, blood clots, heart attack and stroke.
Article updated August 2008
Cost of Birth Control Pills - Get Information and Cost Guidelines - CostHelper.com


Oh.... and you recall what I said about convincing our doctors of "medical necessity"??

Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice"
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jul 16, 2008 7:30pm
Jack Cafferty: Viagra Is For A Medical Condition, Birth Control Is A "Lifestyle Choice" | Crooks and Liars

"My clock is ticking.... The dick isn't...." <snicker>

i gave 2 links, the article i posted in quotes regarding birth control and insurance coverage is from 2009, not the year 2000, 925? you are quoting 2007 and we were not discussing the cost of them or planned parenthood distribution, we were talking about health insurance coverage for them?

thx for the link...
the idea that men deem them not a necessity for women while viagra is a necessity is a joke, and living in the male dominated mind think of the dark ages!!!!!!!!!

I read the 2009 quote, following the 2000 quote. So why'd you bother with the 2000 info?

There are 24 states that have enacted laws requiring group health insurance companies to cover prescription contraceptives if they cover other prescription drugs and devices, and other states have similar proposals pending, according to the National Women's Law Center in Washington, D.C. The National Conference of State Legislatures reported in 2009 that mandates in two states, Texas and Virginia, require that employers be offered the option to include coverage of contraceptives within their group health plans. Some laws prohibit insurance group plans from excluding contraceptive services and supplies. Other states also recognize an exemption for employers that object to contraceptive coverage for religious reasons. And several states require employers to notify employees of their refusal to provide contraceptive coverage.

as opposed to the 2008 info I posted

Birth control pills, the most commonly covered contraceptive, are covered by more than 80 percent of health insurance plans, according to the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals. And in some states, it's mandatory; the Kaiser Family Foundation lists 33 states that require coverage of birth control.

You see why I felt yours was less relevant?? Not to mention, IF one, by chance, is not covered by their insurance, there are other options available to obtain them. Of course, you failed to say that.

Course one can also obtain Viagra from other sources as well.... All those emails from the Canadian pharmacies are hysterical, aren't they? And just how would you be havin' any more children if he couldn't get it up? Oh wait... You don't have any, do you?