Beheaded Georgian opposition

[mememe]

Mememe -

Ok, but do get back to me if you ever actually want to get access to correct information.

It seem to happen quite often that people are only willing to look at information which confirms their bizarre theories (Stalin is Jewish??!!), and ignore real history. After a while I imagine they get tired of being laughed at and grow up.

btw. There is no issue with Stalin's name, nor his ethnicity.

You don't seem to understand: we were fed by US propaganda "history" for decades. It resulted in ever increasing number of people taking interest in what was really going on in our country between 1914 and 1950-s. This interest made people go to archives for answers; and as soon as they started unearthing actual documents all US constructed "history" fell to pieces.

I have no interest in going back in time and recycle your "historians'"efforts. I told you already: you are way behind times.

And the fact that Stalin was a Jew seems "bizarre" only to the West brought up on US pseudo-historic mantras and cliches. Who said that it was ever an "issue"?! In any case, it is a Western habit to dig into people's "ethnicities"; why?! -- it is a cornerstone of liberastic policies -- "multiculturalism" -- a way to divide people. We never had that.

 

[Saigon]

Mememe-

Again, I am NOT American. None of the books referred to are American.

Once again, Stalin's ethnicity and name are not disputed. He was not Jewish. His was Georgian.

If you want to believe paranoid fantasies, go right ahead.

 

[mememe]

Mememe-

Again, I am NOT American.

None of the books referred to are American.

Once again, Stalin's ethnicity and name are not disputed. He was not Jewish.

His was Georgian.

If you want to believe paranoid fantasies, go right ahead.

Again, it's not about where you were born, it's where you belong! You were brought up "American".

And what country do you think determines ideological field of the West?

Of course they are not disputed! In the former USSR it was never a question that he was an ethnic Jew from Georgia! What you decided about it in the West -- is your problem, no one cares what you think.

And you are an IDIOT if you think "Georgian" is an ethnicity!

That's why I avoid reading Western twaddle.

 

[Saigon]

I was brought up "American"?

And you established this....how...exactly?

At least I've been to Georgia!


Georgian is not an ethnicity - it is a nationality.

 

[Unkotare]

At least I've been to Georgia!

Here we go...

 

[mememe]

I was brought up "American"?

And you established this....how...exactly?

At least I've been to Georgia!


Georgian is not an ethnicity - it is a nationality.

Yes.

By reading your posts.

1. I also have been to Georgia; 2. "Been to ..." doesn't mean you have an understanding of it. Just because I've been to see Egyptian pyramids doesn't mean I became an expert-Egyptologist.

Now "Georgian" is a nationality because Georgia is a country. Historically, "Georgian" is an identification of three ethnicities that live there; later it became an identification of all ethnicities that live on that territory.
So, returning to our initial question: Stalin was a Georgian Jew.

 

[Saigon]

Mememe -

I would ask you to present proof that Stalin was Jewish - but I think it is fairly clear that you don't believe it either.

It's just something to post, really, isn't it?

 

[mememe]

Mememe -

I would ask you to present proof that Stalin was Jewish

Are you fucking idiot? HIS SURNAME translated into English means "son of a Jew": "shvili" means "son of" and "Juga" means "Jew"; HIS NAME IS JEWISH: ONLY JEWS WERE NAMING THEIR SONS -- JOSEF!!!!!

HE WAS FROM A FAMILY OF CHRISTENED JEWS!

Why is it so important to you?

 

[Saigon]

Mememe -

It isn't important to me, because I know he wasn't Jewish. You raised the issue, though I have no idea why.

It's seems you also don't have any evidence. As you may be aware, 'Jugha' refers to a city in Azerbaijan - not to Jews, the word for which is 'Iudeli'.

 

[mememe]

It isn't important to me, because I know he wasn't Jewish.

It's seems you also don't have any evidence. As you may be aware, 'Jugha' refers to a city in Azerbaijan - not to Jews, the word for which is 'Iudeli'.

1. And how do you KNOW it exactly?

2. Have you ever paused to consider that perhaps ENGLISH was NOT THE LANGUAGE of the peoples who inhabited Caucasus?! And maybe, just maybe English writing of the name of the city and the name of the ethnicity had nothing to do with how LOCALS wrote those words?

For starters, there was no "Azerbaijan" at the time Stalin was born, and the surname clearly pre-dates his birth! Secondly, the town in question was on a Armenian territory.
This is how it's written: Ջուղա. Thirdly, here are different variations of English attempts at TRANSLITERATION of the name of that town: Julfa, Djulfa, Dzhul’fa, Jolfa, Dzhulfa, Džulfa, Jolfā, Jolfā-ye Nakhjavān, etc. (Wiki)

 

[Saigon]

Mememe -

I know this because I wrote a history of Stalin and Gori a couple of years back. As part of that I did some research in Gori, and read the half-dozen major academic biographies and histories the man.

I'm fairly comfortable with my knowledge of Stalin's early years, and certainly the idea that he was Jewish is so obviously proven false by his bitter anti-Semitism. Do you know even Krushev admitted that Stalin was "a dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semite"?

btw. Azerbaijan is just a little older than Stalin - as a region it dates back to biblical times. But I'm glad we seem to have establised that his name doesn't mean that he was Jewish!

 

[mememe]

Mememe -

I know this because I wrote a history of Stalin and Gori a couple of years back. ...

I'm fairly comfortable with my knowledge of Stalin's early years, and certainly the idea that he was Jewish is so obviously proven false by his bitter anti-Semitism.

Do you know even Krushev admitted that Stalin was "a dyed-in-the-wool anti-Semite"?

btw. Azerbaijan is just a little older than Stalin - as a region it dates back to biblical times. But I'm glad we seem to have establised that his name doesn't mean that he was Jewish!

That's why I do not read "histories" written by "historians/writers/juornos" concocted on basis of their arrogant ignorance.

"We" did not establish anything apart from the fact that WE can not agree on anything. But your method of taking MY words and basterdising them to look like they mean something entirely different is another reason why I do not read Western "historical" concoctions.

Just so you will be of no doubt as to my position:

1. The word "shvili" means "son of"; the word "Jewga" or "Juga" or "Dzhuga" (so to demonstrate to you that TRANSLITERATION is just an attempt to reproduce the sounding of the word, nothing more) means "Jew"; his name was also typical Jewish name -- Josef.

2. The "region" where Azerbaijan is situated existed since the Earth was formed. Doesn't mean that it was "Azerbaijan".

3. Khruschev had lots of personal grudges against Stalin and after Stalin's death attributed to him repressions organised by himself, Khruschev. Therefore, to sight Khruschev as a historical source is considered bad taste, its like sighting Soljenitsun as a "historic source". But since you are WESTERN juorno/"historian" -- these are precisely the sources you use and that is why your "historical" opuses can not be taken seriously.

And finally: please, tell me, what exactly made you so certain of Stalin's anti-Jewishness?

 

[Saigon]

Mememe -

You don't read books because they contain facts. Facts are very inconveniant for conspiracy theorists.

Somehow I think if we compare your 'arrogant ignorance' with Simon Sebag Montefiore's - he will come out looking a little wiser than you do.

There are entire books devoted to Stalin's anti-Semitism - it is one of the most well known and fascinating aspects of his entire rule. It's a simple basic fact that I would think almost eveyone on the forum is well aware of. As mentioned earlier - research the Doctor's Plot and you can get up speed on this.

btw: Azerbaijan a a concept dates back to the 9th century and the Shirvinshad dynasty.

 

[mememe]

Mememe -

You don't read books because they contain facts. Facts are very inconveniant for conspiracy theorists.
Somehow I think if we compare your 'arrogant ignorance' with Simon Sebag Montefiore's - he will come out looking a little wiser than you do.

There are entire books devoted to Stalin's anti-Semitism - it is one of the most well known and fascinating aspects of his entire rule. It's a simple basic fact that I would think almost eveyone on the forum is well aware of. As mentioned earlier - research the Doctor's Plot and you can get up speed on this.

btw: Azerbaijan a a concept dates back to the 9th century and the Shirvinshad dynasty.

I read plenty of books, but Western "historical" opuses I put way below "Miss Marple" and "Beowulf".

Once again, you recycling each others "books" on "Stalin's anti-Semitism" (and by "anti-semitism" I assume you mean just "anti-Jewishness") doesn't mean anything apart from what I already said: you sight each other as sources.

Can you give me at least one example in support of your conviction of Stalin's anti-Jewishness?

 

[Saigon]

Can you give me at least one example in support of your conviction of Stalin's anti-Jewishness?

Well, how about the Doctors Plot?

The Doctors' plot (Russian language: дело врачей [doctors' affair], врачи-вредители [doctors-saboteurs] or врачи-убийцы [doctors-killers]) in 1952/53 was the most dramatic anti-Jewish episode in the Soviet Union during Joseph Stalin's regime, involving the "unmasking" of a group of prominent Moscow doctors, predominantly Jews, as conspiratorial assassins of Soviet leaders.[1] This was accompanied by show trials and anti-Semitic propaganda in state-run mass media. Scores of Soviet Jews were promptly dismissed from their jobs, arrested, sent to the Gulag, or executed. The doctor's plot was to be the catalyst of Stalin's campaigns against Soviet Jews, but was ultimately stopped short by Stalin's sudden death in March 1953. After the death of Joseph Stalin, the new Soviet leadership stated a lack of evidence and the case was dropped. In 1956, the Soviet leadership declared that the case was fabricated.

Doctors' plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mememe]

Can you give me at least one example in support of your conviction of Stalin's anti-Jewishness?

Well, how about the Doctors Plot?

And what makes you think that a group of medics was tried and punished because they were Jews and not because they were members of Zionist organisation on CIA payroll who were engaged in terrorist activities in the USSR?

 

[Saigon]

Mememe -

There are plenty or excellent articles around online on the plot. Read any of them that look reliable to you, and then get back to me if you have any questions.

 

[mememe]

Mememe -

There are plenty or excellent articles around online on the plot. Read any of them that look reliable to you, and then get back to me if you have any questions.

I don't need "articles" of those who made them up based on other "articles".

I asked you a question. After all, you are a self-confessed juorno and a "historian" to boot. Surely you can explain the reasons for your own thoughts (if they are YOUR thoughts)!

Please, tell me why do you think that a group of medics was tried and punished because they were Jews and not because they were members of Zionist organisation on CIA payroll who were engaged in terrorist activities in the USSR?

Is it because:
1. Jews can not be terrorists?
2. Jews can do no wrong?
3. No matter what Jews do they can not be held to account?
4. CIA and US State Department do not support terrorist activities in target countries?

 

[Saigon]

I don't need "articles" of those who made them up based on other "articles".

It's funny - conspiracy theorists never seem to need facts or research.

Unfortunately, there is really nothing to discuss until you have got up to speed on the basic facts, and as you refuse to do that - there is nothing to discuss.

btw. Of course Jews can be terrorists - don't be ridiculous.

 

[mememe]

I don't need "articles" of those who made them up based on other "articles".

It's funny - conspiracy theorists

Saigon, can you read? I did NOT put forward any "theory", I simply ASKED YOU ONE QUESTION!!!!
I understand that when a Westerner is suddenly asked to explain mantras he picked up off Western agitprop, he goes into a meltdown and starts producing slogans that in his mind should get an opponent off his back;

but,

you suppose to be a juorno -- so you should at least have the ability to use the words and construct arguments!

Please, tell me why do you think that a group of medics was tried and punished because they were Jews and not because they were members of Zionist organisation on CIA payroll who were engaged in terrorist activities in the USSR?

Is it because:
1. Jews can not be terrorists?
2. Jews can do no wrong?
3. No matter what Jews do they can not be held to account?
4. CIA and US State Department do not support terrorist activities in target countries?