Beer, Cigarettes & Marijuana -- What's the difference?

[Wry Catcher]

What do cigarettes have to do with this? Are you claiming they are also a perception altering substance??

No. But cigarettes do cause 435,000 deaths a year.

But how many people die from "cigarette related incidents"??

"Based on a worldwide study of smoking-related fire and disaster data, University of California-Davis epidemiologists show that smoking is a leading global cause of fires and death from fires, resulting in an estimated cost of nearly $7 billion in the United States and $27.2 billion worldwide in 1998. The study was published in the August issue of Preventive Medicine.

Fires cause 1% of the global burden of disease and 300,000 deaths per year worldwide. Smoking causes an estimated 30% of fire deaths in the United States and 10% of fire deaths worldwide"
See: Smoking is a major cause of fires, study says

 

[Wry Catcher]

The only reason marijuana is ever a gateway drug is because it exposes peaceful pot smokers to the dealers who are likely to also traffic other, more dangerous sustances. If we could just walk into our local liquor store or drug store and purchase a federally-regulated and taxed product like we can with booze and cigs, then our upstanding, de-criminalized stoners could get on with their lives without worrying about going to prison with rapists and murderers just for passing the peace pipe.

Good points. I would suggest that the regulation of MJ be determined by each state.

 

[editec]

MJ laws were enacted at a time when the only people who were really using MJ were african-americans and hispanics.

Kind of like that Buffet song:

"And only Jazz Musicians were smoking Marijuana."

Some people will find race in every issue. I do not believe race was a factor when the laws were enacted. It was because of us long-haired hippy-types LOL

Well you're wrong about that. Racism had much to do with the original marijuana prohibition of the 30s.

But as to the WAR on drugs and the continuation of marijuana as a CLASS A drug?

There you can credit NiXXon's hatred of the hippies (circa 1972 or so) for keeping that drug in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

The war on drugs was a NiXXon invention, ya know.

Nixxon refused to leaglize it as his own panel of experts suggested he do precisely because the people protesting the war smoked dope.

 

[Wry Catcher]

MJ laws were enacted at a time when the only people who were really using MJ were african-americans and hispanics.

Kind of like that Buffet song:

"And only Jazz Musicians were smoking Marijuana."

Some people will find race in every issue. I do not believe race was a factor when the laws were enacted. It was because of us long-haired hippy-types LOL

Well you're wrong about that. Racism had much to do with the original marijuana prohibition of the 30s.

But as to the WAR on drugs and the continuation of marijuana as a CLASS A drug?

There you can credit NiXXon's hatred of the hippies (circa 1972 or so) for keeping that drug in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

The war on drugs was a NiXXon invention, ya know.

Nixxon refused to leaglize it as his own panel of experts suggested he do precisely because the people protesting the war smoked dope.

MJ is not illegal; it is a schedule I drug. If the Feds removed MJ from schedule I and made the MJ stamptax reasonable, each state would be able to regulate its production, possession and raise revenue via taxation - as would the federal government - and reduce the cost of enforcement. It might also mitigate organized crime by removing a source of income, much as the repeal of prohibition closed that black market. The black market in MJ is a multi-billion dollar economy; continuing to do what we've been doing for the past 50 years is insane.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Marijuana on the street these days is of much higher quality and at least twice as potent as the drug the hippies were smoking back in the 60's. And though marijuana addiction is still less likely than is addiction to other narcotic drugs or alochol or nicotine, the higher potency is increasing the rate of addition to pot.

There is something to say for decriminalizing it and regulating it and that would relieve the prison populations, etc. I doubt though that it would eliminate the black market. And unless you don't have a problem with kids having access to it in large numbers, it is almost a given that if you remove much of their market from the adult population, the dealers will target the kids a whole lot more.

In other words, there are excellent arguments for all sides of the problem. But the unintended negative consequences no matter WHAT the policy are also a fact, and must be taken into consideration when establishing a policy.

 

[JBeukema]

The Marijuana on the street these days is of much higher quality and at least twice as potent as the drug the hippies were smoking back in the 60's.

fail

Myth: Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past. Adults who used marijuana in the 1960s and 1970s fail to realize that when today's youth use marijuana they are using a much more dangerous drug.
Fact: When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC samples seized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.

• King LA, Carpentier C, Griffiths P. “Cannabis potency in Europe.” Addiction. 2005 Jul; 100(7):884-6
  
• Henneberger, Melinda. "Pot Surges Back, But It’s, Like, a Whole New World." New York Times 6 February 1994: E18.

• Brown, Lee. “Interview with Lee Brown,” Dallas Morning News 21 May 1995.

• Drug Enforcement Administration. U.S. Drug Threat Assessment, 1993. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, 1993.

• Kleiman, Mark A.R. Marijuana: Costs of Abuse, Costs of Control. Westport: Greenwood Press, 1989. 29.

• Bennett, William. Director of National Drug Control Policy, remarks at Conference of Mayors. 23 April 1990.

And though marijuana addiction is still less likely than is addiction to other narcotic drugs or alochol or nicotine, the higher potency is increasing the rate of addition to pot.

fail

see above +
Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits. Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

• United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

• Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

• Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

• Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Marijuana on the street these days is of much higher quality and at least twice as potent as the drug the hippies were smoking back in the 60's. And though marijuana addiction is still less likely than is addiction to other narcotic drugs or alochol or nicotine, the higher potency is increasing the rate of addition to pot.

There is something to say for decriminalizing it and regulating it and that would relieve the prison populations, etc. I doubt though that it would eliminate the black market. And unless you don't have a problem with kids having access to it in large numbers, it is almost a given that if you remove much of their market from the adult population, the dealers will target the kids a whole lot more.

In other words, there are excellent arguments for all sides of the problem. But the unintended negative consequences no matter WHAT the policy are also a fact, and must be taken into consideration when establishing a policy.

Kids have access to MJ today, and in doing so are at best only a few degrees of separation from the criminal element who produce, sell and protect their product. This element is also able to modify the bud with other ingrediants, some of which may cause greater harm then the weed itself.
The black market will always exist, but consider the black market during Prohibition and the BM after after repeal. Organized crime flourishes when 'vices' are outlawed - consider prostitution, gambling, alcohol and other drugs. Each vice leads to other serious problems, STD's, addictions and crime are the most obvious.
Isn't it better (and saner) to contol vices rather than to try (unsuccessfully) to banish them?