been screaming for this for years

They thought extending the monorail across Western Washington was a great idea to ... it wasn't until after all the hidden costs built it up to twice what the proposed cost would be that people finally got smart about it. The problem is people jump unto things too quickly, just because it "sounds good". What are the other options? What are all the costs? Trust me, I doubt they are telling us everything yet.
 
Well.. is every citizen going to be taxed equally for it?

No..


Once again another pet project on the backs of the few....

I think objections like this one are fairly short sighted. Getting the economy back on track with an eye toward the future by creating jobs in this area is a good thing. More jobs mean more revenue.

It will also help alleviate impossible traffic problems and stress on people attempting to get from one place to another and also on roads and bridges that are crumbling under the pressure.
 
Well.. is every citizen going to be taxed equally for it?

No..


Once again another pet project on the backs of the few....

I think objections like this one are fairly short sighted. Getting the economy back on track with an eye toward the future by creating jobs in this area is a good thing. More jobs mean more revenue.

It will also help alleviate impossible traffic problems and stress on people attempting to get from one place to another and also on roads and bridges that are crumbling under the pressure.

Actually they are not as short sighted as you think. Who pays for it will be important, considering most of these projects have been failing, and cities that have tried anything like this go bankrupt, hurting the poor and middle class. What insurance do we have it will work? Where are they getting the money from? These are important issues because if it does fail then how it will effect the nation is VERY important.
 
That is great news. Bicycle, subway, monorail, and your two feet, the greenest of all worlds. Some will complain but thankfully we left the cave long ago.
 
All Democrats are cracking up to be is gimmme gimmmie gimmmie people. dosen't say much for or about you. cept gimmie!
 
That is great news. Bicycle, subway, monorail, and your two feet, the greenest of all worlds. Some will complain but thankfully we left the cave long ago.

Wait, you think monorail and subway are "green"? Too much koolaid ... they are supported by "green" scientists because the companies that build, operate, and maintain them funnel a bunch of "donations" to their research. Monorail is cost ineffective, complete waste of money, destructive to the ecosystem, and requires a LOT more space to build than they will tell you. For the subway, that's just too easy to find flaws with, just think about it a moment. The subway is still better than the monorails though, at least they don't drive the city into poverty.
 
I think high speed mag lev rails are long overdue.

So that project actually would be a very good use of stimulus money.

However I doubt that a mere $740 billion is enough to really create an effective system of such rail lines.

But it would be a good start.

Jet liners are a STUPID way to travel.

They pollute like crazy, and traveling by Jet is hardly convenient anymore.
 
Well.. is every citizen going to be taxed equally for it?

No..


Once again another pet project on the backs of the few....

I think objections like this one are fairly short sighted. Getting the economy back on track with an eye toward the future by creating jobs in this area is a good thing. More jobs mean more revenue.

It will also help alleviate impossible traffic problems and stress on people attempting to get from one place to another and also on roads and bridges that are crumbling under the pressure.

Actually they are not as short sighted as you think. Who pays for it will be important, considering most of these projects have been failing, and cities that have tried anything like this go bankrupt, hurting the poor and middle class. What insurance do we have it will work? Where are they getting the money from? These are important issues because if it does fail then how it will effect the nation is VERY important.

Kit, I don't think most of them have been failing. We have been failing to remain focused on this mode of transportation.

Infrastructure is the wave of the future as far as job creation goes along with the high tech industry and research. We have to get better at moving people.
 
I think high speed mag lev rails are long overdue.

So that project actually would be a very good use of stimulus money.

However I doubt that a mere $740 billion is enough to really create an effective system of such rail lines.

But it would be a good start.

Jet liners are a STUPID way to travel.

They pollute like crazy, and traveling by Jet is hardly convenient anymore.

It's a trade off, not an improvement really. Pollution isn't just exhaust fumes, there's oil used to lubricate, space for tracks, cleaning chemicals for the mechanical and magnetic components (magnetic components require a lot more maintenance unless you like having the train fly off the track at 500 mph), etc.. No better, no worse, just different types of pollution.
 
That is great news. Bicycle, subway, monorail, and your two feet, the greenest of all worlds. Some will complain but thankfully we left the cave long ago.

Wait, you think monorail and subway are "green"? Too much koolaid ... they are supported by "green" scientists because the companies that build, operate, and maintain them funnel a bunch of "donations" to their research. Monorail is cost ineffective, complete waste of money, destructive to the ecosystem, and requires a LOT more space to build than they will tell you. For the subway, that's just too easy to find flaws with, just think about it a moment. The subway is still better than the monorails though, at least they don't drive the city into poverty.

Indeed, the complete text at site:

"High-Speed Rail: The Wrong Road for America" by Randal O'Toole (Cato Institute: Policy Analysis)

High-Speed Rail: The Wrong Road for America

by Randal O'Toole


In the face of high energy prices and concerns about global warming, environmentalists and planners offer high-speed rail as an environmentally friendly alternative to driving and air travel. California, Florida, the Midwest, and other parts of the country are actively considering specific high-speed rail plans.

Close scrutiny of these plans reveals that they do not live up to the hype. As attractive as 110-to 220-mile-per-hour trains might sound, even the most optimistic forecasts predict they will take few cars off the road. At best, they will replace for profit private commuter airlines with heavily subsidized public rail systems that are likely to require continued subsidies far into the future.

Nor are high-speed rail lines particularly environmentally friendly. Planners have predicted that a proposed line in Florida would use more energy and emit more of some pollutants than all of the cars it would take off the road. California planners forecast that high-speed rail would reduce pollutionand greenhouse gas emissions by amere 0.7 to 1.5 percent—but only if ridership reached the high end of projected levels. Lower ridership would nullify energy savings and pollution reductions.

These assessments are confirmed by the actual experience of high-speed rail lines in Japan and Europe. Since Japan introduced high-speed bullet trains, passenger rail has lost more than half its market share to the automobile. Since Italy, France, and other European countries opened their high-speed rail lines, rail's market share in Europe has dwindled from 8.2 to 5.8 percent of travel. If high-speed rail doesn't work in Japan and Europe, how can it work in the United States?

As megaprojects—the California high-speed rail is projected to cost $33 to $37 billion—high-speed rail plans pose serious risks for taxpayers. Costs of recent rail projects in Denver and Seattle are running 60 to 100 percent above projections. Once construction begins, politicians will feel obligated to throw good taxpayers' money after bad. Once projects are completed , most plans call for them to be turned over to private companies that will keep any operational profits,while taxpayers will remain vulnerable if the trains lose money.

In short, high-speed rail proposals are high cost, high-risk megaprojects that promise little or no congestion relief, energy savings, or other environmental benefits. Taxpayers and politicians should be wary of any transportation projects that cannot be paid for out of user fees.
 
I think objections like this one are fairly short sighted. Getting the economy back on track with an eye toward the future by creating jobs in this area is a good thing. More jobs mean more revenue.

It will also help alleviate impossible traffic problems and stress on people attempting to get from one place to another and also on roads and bridges that are crumbling under the pressure.

Actually they are not as short sighted as you think. Who pays for it will be important, considering most of these projects have been failing, and cities that have tried anything like this go bankrupt, hurting the poor and middle class. What insurance do we have it will work? Where are they getting the money from? These are important issues because if it does fail then how it will effect the nation is VERY important.

Kit, I don't think most of them have been failing. We have been failing to remain focused on this mode of transportation.

Infrastructure is the wave of the future as far as job creation goes along with the high tech industry and research. We have to get better at moving people.

This breaks down the proposed costs we were told:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/us/25monorail.html

The fiasco went like this:

After they pushed out a LOT of businesses through imminent domain for the project, the company then asked for several million more. Then after another few months they changed their plan and decided they would use an inferior track layout because it "woould cost too much". Then they asked for several million more and ran even more business out to make space to hold the construction equipment. It wasn't until the bill almost reached a billion that we finally told them enough, no track was built a year later with no possibility of any track being built within the next ten years because they kept dragging their asses and expected us to keep funneling them money. The total upkeep per year was I think 30+ million with the final proposal using almost less than half the track they had originally said. With the millions lost in taxes from the businesses they ran out of town to "almost start" and the millions we lost to the company, we can't get any of it back. Seattle tried to fight it but gave up when they realized it would cost more to take them to court. It's not worth it, never was, but the light rail, as annoying and slow as it is, is at least happening and costing a LOT less, too bad we didn't go with that plan first huh?
 
I think high speed mag lev rails are long overdue.

So that project actually would be a very good use of stimulus money.

However I doubt that a mere $740 billion is enough to really create an effective system of such rail lines.

But it would be a good start.

Jet liners are a STUPID way to travel.

They pollute like crazy, and traveling by Jet is hardly convenient anymore.

It's a trade off, not an improvement really. Pollution isn't just exhaust fumes, there's oil used to lubricate, space for tracks, cleaning chemicals for the mechanical and magnetic components (magnetic components require a lot more maintenance unless you like having the train fly off the track at 500 mph), etc.. No better, no worse, just different types of pollution.


You're guessing.

Of course so am I.

That said, I suspect that jet travel pollutes a lot worse (per passenger mile, at least) than mag lev rail.
 
I think high speed mag lev rails are long overdue.

So that project actually would be a very good use of stimulus money.

However I doubt that a mere $740 billion is enough to really create an effective system of such rail lines.

But it would be a good start.

Jet liners are a STUPID way to travel.

They pollute like crazy, and traveling by Jet is hardly convenient anymore.

It's a trade off, not an improvement really. Pollution isn't just exhaust fumes, there's oil used to lubricate, space for tracks, cleaning chemicals for the mechanical and magnetic components (magnetic components require a lot more maintenance unless you like having the train fly off the track at 500 mph), etc.. No better, no worse, just different types of pollution.


You're guessing.

Of course so am I.

That said, I suspect that jet travel pollutes a lot worse (per passenger mile, at least) than mag lev rail.

No, I'm not guessing. I am using logic and knowledge of mechanics and electronic technology which I happen to excel at. Programming is just part of what I know about when dealing with technology. You are just swallowing hype.
 
I think high speed mag lev rails are long overdue.

So that project actually would be a very good use of stimulus money.

However I doubt that a mere $740 billion is enough to really create an effective system of such rail lines.

But it would be a good start.

Jet liners are a STUPID way to travel.

They pollute like crazy, and traveling by Jet is hardly convenient anymore.

I agree with all of this. It's a good start.
 

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