Beck...

[☭proletarian☭]

I noticed that Fitz attacked the website (source) and not the information.

Isn't that called an Ad Hom?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I did Google it and here's what I found:

Roosevelt's view was that he, as president, was steward of the national welfare, and that the coal shortage threatened that welfare. As Rutgers history professor John Whiteclay Chambers wrote in The Tyranny of Change: America in the Progressive Era, 1890-1920, Roosevelt believed the president "should intervene in the economy when necessary to contain the most destructive aspects of assertive wealth and provide some protection for its victims. Without strong presidential leadership and some reforms, mounting discontent might explode into widespread militance and even class conflict." [Page 175] Chambers also noted that Roosevelt's interventionist philosophy was tempered with a desire to "preserve American corporate capitalism as it was evolving by regulating it in the public interest."
It was in this context that Roosevelt was alleged to have said: "To hell with the Constitution when the people want coal!" It wasn't an expression of the "anti-Constitution" philosophy Beck attributes to Roosevelt, but rather an acknowledgement by Roosevelt that he considered the threat of widespread fuel riots to be so serious that he would knowingly violate the bounds of his authority by intervening in the coal strike. And Roosevelt did intervene, inviting both labor leaders and employers to the White House for mediations in October 1902, and subsequently threatening to seize control of the mines. The threat worked, and the strike was soon resolved.

So he went beyond his bounds to break a Union strike... sounds like the Rightwingers would have applauded him. Doesn't help the attempt to paint him as an evil progressive. Sounds more like he was acting like a rightwinger at the time.


You're 0-2, love.

 

[Rinata]

I think there is an interesting overlap in the response of the left to both Mr. Beck and Mr. Limbaugh.

Both admit and revel in being entertainers, and very successful at same.

Yet many of their devotees see them as educators, as well.


Neither are the two categories mutually exclusive, nor are are the two impediments to listenership.


In short, their popularity is is large measure because they enlighten.


And if I may endulge in a bit of a poke, the enmity that I detect is often from those with an antipathy to education.

Look at all of the new words you've learned!!!! Too bad you don't know what any of them mean. You are a joke, dear. A pathetic joke. It's almost sad. Your attempts at humor fall flat as a pancake. As for your attempts to appear to be super intelligent?? You don't even do it well. Poor thing.

Ah, my poor, simple friend.

I suppose words are a new phenomenon for you.
It has been observed many times that good writing is a by-product of good reading.

As an extension of this axiom, it appears that the better part of your reading time has involved comic books and the cartoons in which bubble gum is wrapped. Reform yourself...at least to the extent that your nature allows you to.

As a curative exercise, continue to read my posts...look up words...even copy phrases.
Sorry, but advice is the best I can do for you.

And know this, you are not without a certain usefulness: watching your attempt to keep up at this board has been more fun than watching the White House spokesman on a lie detector.

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

And I am wondering why you always seek me out. Is it because I always ignore you and you hate it?? Well, I'm sorry. But you bore me silly. I told you that months ago and that hasn't has changed. Your posts to me are just full of nothing.

 

[Rinata]

I cannot fathom how anyone can defend Beck. He will say something and contradict what he just said five minutes later. That he makes so much money for doing nothing helpful says much about American culture today. He is the idiot student defended because he says things that appeal to the far right. Everyone (well most everyone) loves to hate a good foe and nothing brings together people like hatred for ? pick one: government, taxes, liberals, progressives, Obama, Nancy, on and on.

This article from Media Matters outlines enough Beck nonsense to make one wonder how any intelligent person could listen to him. But it isn't analyzed because it is so much easier to have enemies that build you up.


"....Nor did Time mention Beck's 2001 statement that he'd like to "beat" Rep. Charlie Rangel "to death with a shovel"; his comments about poisoning Nancy Pelosi; his comparison of the Holocaust museum shooter to Thomas Jefferson; this little outburst; or his comparisons of Obama to Adolf Hitler. Let's stop there for a second and go back to Time's opening lines:

On Sept. 12, a large crowd gathered in Washington to protest ... what? The goals of Congress and the Obama Administration, mainly - the cost, the scale, the perceived leftist intent. The crowd's agenda was wide-ranging, so it's hard to be more specific. "End the Fed," a sign read. A schoolboy's placard denounced "Obama's Nazi Youth Militia." Another poster declared, "We the People for Capitalism Not Socialism."

Gee, where did that "Obama's Nazi Youth Militia" garbage come from? It came from Glenn Beck. But Time won't tell you that."

How Time magazine enables Glenn Beck's lies | Media Matters for America

Beck is completely nuts. I think any sane person can see that. But you are going to get responses that say Media Matters lies. Thanks for posting this.

 

[midcan5]

my conservative right wingnut alter ego speaks

I like glenn beck. He calls the press-o-dent a markist and says he dont like white people. I agree as I am a white people. the press-o-dent only likes black people and foreigners to. glenn has chalkboard and draws lines showing all the markist connections and I learn a lot from this. I see that one of his staff say something and that means he dont agree with thomas jefferson who was a patriotic religious man like glenn and not like prez whosane. I am not one of those elitist so I like that glenn draws all these connections on his board. it is like I am back in school thinking about cars and girls and stuff and since this is all I watch i can be sure to be right on anything. if you to wanna learn and know this stuff please watch glenn and by his books if you can read. oh well gotta go we are searching the skys for alien space ships. tonights sky is clear and we seen one last week. A Moister, Flakier Leader For Today's Angst-Ridden Conservative | The New Republic

 

[PoliticalChic]

I did Google it and here's what I found:

Roosevelt's view was that he, as president, was steward of the national welfare, and that the coal shortage threatened that welfare. As Rutgers history professor John Whiteclay Chambers wrote in The Tyranny of Change: America in the Progressive Era, 1890-1920, Roosevelt believed the president "should intervene in the economy when necessary to contain the most destructive aspects of assertive wealth and provide some protection for its victims. Without strong presidential leadership and some reforms, mounting discontent might explode into widespread militance and even class conflict." [Page 175] Chambers also noted that Roosevelt's interventionist philosophy was tempered with a desire to "preserve American corporate capitalism as it was evolving by regulating it in the public interest."
It was in this context that Roosevelt was alleged to have said: "To hell with the Constitution when the people want coal!" It wasn't an expression of the "anti-Constitution" philosophy Beck attributes to Roosevelt, but rather an acknowledgement by Roosevelt that he considered the threat of widespread fuel riots to be so serious that he would knowingly violate the bounds of his authority by intervening in the coal strike. And Roosevelt did intervene, inviting both labor leaders and employers to the White House for mediations in October 1902, and subsequently threatening to seize control of the mines. The threat worked, and the strike was soon resolved.

So he went beyond his bounds to break a Union strike... sounds like the Rightwingers would have applauded him. Doesn't help the attempt to paint him as an evil progressive. Sounds more like he was acting like a rightwinger at the time.


You're 0-2, love.

Wow, thanks so much for acting as my shill, a veritable foil to provide the worst of exemplars of how the left 'thinks' and acts!

My only fear is that readers of this thread might think that we arranged this little exercise to puff up the right and pull the rug out from under the left.

To all reader of this thread: be advised that I have not arranged with this fool to ask me to prove various statements, and then when I did so in the most academically precise manner, with links and examples...he actually tries

1. "... I just won't read it...so there!"
The USMB equivalent of 'my fingers are in my ears...I can't hear you, so you're not talking!"

2. "You didn't provide each and every entire-quote so you must be wrong"

3."As a left-wing dolt" I'll simply claim that you lose, I win!

BTW, that was really sleazy the way you claimed that google didn't provide the Roosevelt quote, as though I made it up...
and then you found it, and didn't mention your lapse.

And then to quote Roosevelt and try to excuse his excesses, as thought that wasn't exactly my point: priceless!
Again, don't think I don't appreciate how bad you made your side look and how good mine!

Now, you keep up the bad work, hear?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Look at all of the new words you've learned!!!! Too bad you don't know what any of them mean. You are a joke, dear. A pathetic joke. It's almost sad. Your attempts at humor fall flat as a pancake. As for your attempts to appear to be super intelligent?? You don't even do it well. Poor thing.

Ah, my poor, simple friend.

I suppose words are a new phenomenon for you.
It has been observed many times that good writing is a by-product of good reading.

As an extension of this axiom, it appears that the better part of your reading time has involved comic books and the cartoons in which bubble gum is wrapped. Reform yourself...at least to the extent that your nature allows you to.

As a curative exercise, continue to read my posts...look up words...even copy phrases.
Sorry, but advice is the best I can do for you.

And know this, you are not without a certain usefulness: watching your attempt to keep up at this board has been more fun than watching the White House spokesman on a lie detector.

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

And I am wondering why you always seek me out. Is it because I always ignore you and you hate it?? Well, I'm sorry. But you bore me silly. I told you that months ago and that hasn't has changed. Your posts to me are just full of nothing.

It's so nice to see the lesser folks, like you, tagging along, pretending that you actually have the ability to contend on this level...

In a way, it's kind of ambition, -even though it is built on fantasy.

But it does show what you aspire to, and that makes me so proud of you! I'm going to award you the oh-so-Progressive "E for Effort"!

Now, you know that doesn't actually mean that you know anything, or have accomplished anything...or even predict that you will amount to anything, but it's better to support your self-esteem, isn't it?

As far as the "always seek me out" projection, could you pin-point for me the exact moment when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

 

[midcan5]

FDR was one complex individual, he was very conservative early on and actually remained conservative as his attempt to reign in spending and the deficit demonstrated. His actions were thought out and often right, obviously some were bad decisions, but after Coolidge and Hoover he brought the nation back from the brink of disaster. Right wing revisionists like PoliticalChic find it necessary to demonize all people on the left, its what they do. But any reading of the period and the policies will change an open minded person's opinion of FDR to one of wonder and a bit of awe.

 

[PoliticalChic]

FDR was one complex individual, he was very conservative early on and actually remained conservative as his attempt to reign in spending and the deficit demonstrated. His actions were thought out and often right, obviously some were bad decisions, but after Coolidge and Hoover he brought the nation back from the brink of disaster. Right wing revisionists like PoliticalChic find it necessary to demonize all people on the left, its what they do. But any reading of the period and the policies will change an open minded person's opinion of FDR to one of wonder and a bit of awe.

Middy, I was going to let you ramble on, but since you called me out...

1. Read the thread more carefully: the Roosevelt under contention was Teddy.

2. Only a raving looney would claim FDR was "very conservative early on and actually remained conservative."

3. "His actions were thought out and often right"
a. "In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ on the whole it retarded recovery.”Medved, "The 10 Big Lies"

4. "...he brought the nation back from the brink of disaster. "
a. Even Roosevelt’s treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, recognized that FDR’s stimulus spending did not work, said Folsom.

“Morgenthau, after being in charge of this economic debacle called the New Deal, finally sort of exploded in 1939 and said, ‘We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work,” quoted Folsom. “‘I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt, to boot.”CNSNews.com - Real Tax Cuts, Not an Obama ?New Deal,? Will Lift Economy, Say Experts

5. "Right wing revisionists like PoliticalChic ..." So, that puts me in the company of folks like Medved and Morganthau? With appreciation...

6. Nor am I a 'revisionist.' I simply expose the feet of clay of your heroes.

7. "But any reading of the period ..."
Now you are presented with the conundrum of explaining why the recession of 1920, following the prior great Progressive, was handled in a far more efficient manner by Harding without massive government interference, than by FDR.
a. "America's greatest depression fighter was Warren Gamaliel Harding. An Ohio senator when he was elected president in 1920, he followed the much praised Woodrow Wilson— who had brought America into World War I, built up huge federal bureaucracies, imprisoned dissenters, and incurred $25 billion of debt.

Harding inherited Wilson's mess— in particular, a post–World War I depression that was almost as severe, from peak to trough, as the Great Contraction from 1929 to 1933 that FDR would later inherit. The estimated gross national product plunged 24 percent from $91.5 billion in 1920 to $69.6 billion in 1921. The number of unemployed people jumped from 2.1 million to 4.9 million." N-Philes :: Forums - View Single Post - The not-so-great depression of 1920-21

8."...wonder and a bit of awe ..." This is known in debating circles as 'begging the question.' And, after the links that I have provided, this over the top hyperbole makes you appear the little school-girl.

More and more the flaws in Progressivism in general and FDR, specifically, are coming to light. No longer is your side totally in charge of the dissemination of information...and this is the explanation for the angry tone you seem to have assumed.

Each day it must be harder to watch events unfold, and bear the burden of defending the indefensible, i.e. this administration.

Hint: vinegar and warm water to peel off that 'Obama 08' bumper sticker.

 

[Big Fitz]

I noticed that Fitz attacked the website (source) and not the information.

Isn't that called an Ad Hom?

An accurate descriptor of the website in an offensive term to drive a point home is not an ad hominym attack, it defines the character and nature of the wesite.

Now, if they would like to stop misquoting conservatives, and deliberate skewing the information they put out for their radical left political agenda, I will be pleased to stop calling them congenital liars.

The choice is up to them. Till then, they deserve the label.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I suppose words are a new phenomenon for you.

How, then, do you explain all his previous posts?

It has been observed many times that good writing is a by-product of good reading.

Not necessarily. One can be quite literate and still be a poor author, just as the ability to listen does not necessarily make one a great orator.

As an extension of this axiom,

That's not an axiom, my illiterate friend.

As a curative exercise, continue to read my posts...look up words..

And you'll soon learn her love of quutemines and her failure to further research her talking points prevents her from discussing matters intelligently and honestly.

Sorry, but advice is the best I can do for you.

You don't do advise for people. You were insulting someone's literacy?

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Is it just me or does PC start sounding a lot like Pubes when she gets worked up?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

FDR was one complex individual, he was very conservative early on and actually remained conservative as his attempt to reign in spending and the deficit demonstrated. His actions were thought out and often right, obviously some were bad decisions, but after Coolidge and Hoover he brought the nation back from the brink of disaster. Right wing revisionists like PoliticalChic find it necessary to demonize all people on the left, its what they do. But any reading of the period and the policies will change an open minded person's opinion of FDR to one of wonder and a bit of awe.

People like PubicChic ( I swear, they could be twins) who can only see the world through the partisan lens of 'Us Versus Them', 'Liberal Versus Progressive' or "Republican v. Democrat' are rarely worth speaking with, since their partisanship, ignorance, and arrogance, prevent them from being able to have a mature and honest discussion. Take for instance, her quotemine of Wilson I called her on.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

It's an ad hom when you attack the site as a means of avoiding addressing the evidence presented.

I find it interesting that you've nothing to say about PC's blatantly dishonest use of quotemines. I suspect it's because she says what you want to hear.

 

[Rinata]

Ah, my poor, simple friend.

I suppose words are a new phenomenon for you.
It has been observed many times that good writing is a by-product of good reading.

As an extension of this axiom, it appears that the better part of your reading time has involved comic books and the cartoons in which bubble gum is wrapped. Reform yourself...at least to the extent that your nature allows you to.

As a curative exercise, continue to read my posts...look up words...even copy phrases.
Sorry, but advice is the best I can do for you.

And know this, you are not without a certain usefulness: watching your attempt to keep up at this board has been more fun than watching the White House spokesman on a lie detector.

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

And I am wondering why you always seek me out. Is it because I always ignore you and you hate it?? Well, I'm sorry. But you bore me silly. I told you that months ago and that hasn't has changed. Your posts to me are just full of nothing.

It's so nice to see the lesser folks, like you, tagging along, pretending that you actually have the ability to contend on this level...

In a way, it's kind of ambition, -even though it is built on fantasy.

But it does show what you aspire to, and that makes me so proud of you! I'm going to award you the oh-so-Progressive "E for Effort"!

Now, you know that doesn't actually mean that you know anything, or have accomplished anything...or even predict that you will amount to anything, but it's better to support your self-esteem, isn't it?

As far as the "always seek me out" projection, could you pin-point for me the exact moment when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

This is exactly who you sound like, I swear. Only she makes more sense.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww]YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question[/ame]

 

[PoliticalChic]

I suppose words are a new phenomenon for you.

How, then, do you explain all his previous posts?

It has been observed many times that good writing is a by-product of good reading.

Not necessarily. One can be quite literate and still be a poor author, just as the ability to listen does not necessarily make one a great orator.


That's not an axiom, my illiterate friend.


And you'll soon learn her love of quutemines and her failure to further research her talking points prevents her from discussing matters intelligently and honestly.

Sorry, but advice is the best I can do for you.

You don't do advise for people. You were insulting someone's literacy?

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

I've already explained: you've served your purpose, whipping boy, and there is no overtime bonus for continuing to allow me to slap you around.

So you can leave.

Get it: dissed and dismissed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh, Lord. Get over yourself. This false image that you insist on presenting is extremely transparent. You're an insecure little twit that wants to be important. But that will never happen, dear. So why don't you just chill.

And I am wondering why you always seek me out. Is it because I always ignore you and you hate it?? Well, I'm sorry. But you bore me silly. I told you that months ago and that hasn't has changed. Your posts to me are just full of nothing.

It's so nice to see the lesser folks, like you, tagging along, pretending that you actually have the ability to contend on this level...

In a way, it's kind of ambition, -even though it is built on fantasy.

But it does show what you aspire to, and that makes me so proud of you! I'm going to award you the oh-so-Progressive "E for Effort"!

Now, you know that doesn't actually mean that you know anything, or have accomplished anything...or even predict that you will amount to anything, but it's better to support your self-esteem, isn't it?

As far as the "always seek me out" projection, could you pin-point for me the exact moment when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

This is exactly who you sound like, I swear. Only she makes more sense.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww]YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question[/ame]

So, you're still stalking me?

Imagine that, after you asked, what was it...why do I follow you around, or something like that.


Kind of puts the lie to your claim, huh?


But I understand it, groupie.

The bad news: ability doesn't rub off.

 

[PoliticalChic]

FDR was one complex individual, he was very conservative early on and actually remained conservative as his attempt to reign in spending and the deficit demonstrated. His actions were thought out and often right, obviously some were bad decisions, but after Coolidge and Hoover he brought the nation back from the brink of disaster. Right wing revisionists like PoliticalChic find it necessary to demonize all people on the left, its what they do. But any reading of the period and the policies will change an open minded person's opinion of FDR to one of wonder and a bit of awe.

People like PubicChic ( I swear, they could be twins) who can only see the world through the partisan lens of 'Us Versus Them', 'Liberal Versus Progressive' or "Republican v. Democrat' are rarely worth speaking with, since their partisanship, ignorance, and arrogance, prevent them from being able to have a mature and honest discussion. Take for instance, her quotemine of Wilson I called her on.

So it seems that the result of post #72, which includes some 15 or 20 precise and dispositive references, none of which you can deal with, has reduced you to some grade school attempt at vulgarity?

True to form, lefty.

Always nice to be able to prove the dearth of ability on your end.

BTW, I notice that post #72 was not the only one that caused you to run and hide, it seems that you have not yet clarified post #64 as well...

Cat got your tongue?

 

[Rinata]

It's so nice to see the lesser folks, like you, tagging along, pretending that you actually have the ability to contend on this level...

In a way, it's kind of ambition, -even though it is built on fantasy.

But it does show what you aspire to, and that makes me so proud of you! I'm going to award you the oh-so-Progressive "E for Effort"!

Now, you know that doesn't actually mean that you know anything, or have accomplished anything...or even predict that you will amount to anything, but it's better to support your self-esteem, isn't it?

As far as the "always seek me out" projection, could you pin-point for me the exact moment when your childhood ended and the hallucinations began?

This is exactly who you sound like, I swear. Only she makes more sense.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww]YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question[/ame]

So, you're still stalking me?

Imagine that, after you asked, what was it...why do I follow you around, or something like that.


Kind of puts the lie to your claim, huh?


But I understand it, groupie.

The bad news: ability doesn't rub off.

Quit whining and lying. If you didn't want me to make a fool of you, you should have left me alone.

 

[Rinata]

It's an ad hom when you attack the site as a means of avoiding addressing the evidence presented.

I find it interesting that you've nothing to say about PC's blatantly dishonest use of quotemines. I suspect it's because she says what you want to hear.

I think every Republican, conservative, baghead nut does that. They refuse to acknowledge any facts that they don't like. And they don't even see how that makes them about as credible as a garden snake.