Battlecry: Christian kids have lost it

[Annie]

A government school isn't a place for worship, though.

But several schools are trying to accomodate, not Christians however:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...ims&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=firefox-a

 

[Hobbit]

A government school isn't a place for worship, though.

All life is a place for worship. Religion is not something to be put in a box when it suites you. Those that do are liars and the scum of the Earth. Even to the terrorist, it is obvious that religion is a way of life, not just something to do on Sunday morning.

And since when is it the government's job to decide when and how I may worship. Didn't we already cover that in the First Ammendment? You know, the same one that allows gays to come to the school and quite literally talk about fudgepacking in front of a mandatory assembly?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

there are different rules applying to religion because of the First Amendment than to other interest groups.

Liar. Religious speech is protected just as much as any other form or speech, it's protected just as much as liberal whining.

 

[acludem]

But several schools are trying to accomodate, not Christians however:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Muslims aren't asking to be allowed to lead public prayer to have the school sanction a prayer group. They are asking to be allowed to find a quiet place to be able to pray at the times of day designated by their faith. Christians do not have such a need, and Christians can pray any time they want, quietly and without disrupting. The Muslim prayer requires one to pray in several positions and facing a certain direction.

acludem

 

[Annie]

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Muslims aren't asking to be allowed to lead public prayer to have the school sanction a prayer group. They are asking to be allowed to find a quiet place to be able to pray at the times of day designated by their faith. Christians do not have such a need, and Christians can pray any time they want, quietly and without disrupting. The Muslim prayer requires one to pray in several positions and facing a certain direction.

acludem

So, why not a 'chapel' for the Christians? You know, when they want to take a break for reflection? Why not something for the Jews? What about the Wiccans, don't they deserve their designated tree or something?

 

[acludem]

Muslims aren't asking for a specific place to be set aside for them, just that they be allowed to go and do their five-minute prayer in a quiet place. Christians and Jews do not have the specific timed prayers that Muslims do. I'm glad these schools are accommodating these Muslim kids. If Christian kids want to go where the Muslims are praying and pray for the same length of time, fine by me, just make sure the Jewish kids, the Buddhist kids, and the Atheist kids are allowed to participate in whatever way they choose and make sure it doesn't become a disruption of the school day.

 

[Hobbit]

Muslims aren't asking for a specific place to be set aside for them, just that they be allowed to go and do their five-minute prayer in a quiet place. Christians and Jews do not have the specific timed prayers that Muslims do. I'm glad these schools are accommodating these Muslim kids. If Christian kids want to go where the Muslims are praying and pray for the same length of time, fine by me, just make sure the Jewish kids, the Buddhist kids, and the Atheist kids are allowed to participate in whatever way they choose and make sure it doesn't become a disruption of the school day.

Tell that to the school that prohibited all candy canes because a girl passed them out with religious symbolism attached to them. Tell that to the school that banned the colors red and green for the entire month of December. Tell that to the school that forbids any Christian organization from having any sort of assembly whatsoever on its campus at any time, regardless of the nature of the organization, presence or lack of faculty sponsorship, or unintrusiveness of the meeting.

Schools are allowing Islam more and more into schools, but they instantly ban any behavior that might cause anybody to have to look at something Christian.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Muslims aren't asking for a specific place to be set aside for them, just that they be allowed to go and do their five-minute prayer in a quiet place. Christians and Jews do not have the specific timed prayers that Muslims do. I'm glad these schools are accommodating these Muslim kids. If Christian kids want to go where the Muslims are praying and pray for the same length of time, fine by me, just make sure the Jewish kids, the Buddhist kids, and the Atheist kids are allowed to participate in whatever way they choose and make sure it doesn't become a disruption of the school day.

From the adl website.

http://www.adl.org/religion_ps_2004/prayer.asp
May students pray? Students have the right to engage in voluntary individual prayer that is not coercive and does not substantially disrupt the school's educational mission and activities. For example, all students have the right to say a blessing before eating a meal. However, school officials must not promote or encourage a student's personal prayer. Students may engage with other students in religious activity during non-curricular periods as long as the activity is not coercive or disruptive. In addition, while students may speak about religious topics with their peers, school officials should intercede if such discussions become religious harassment. It is essential that private religious activity not materially disrupt the school's educational mission and activities. Personal religious activity may not interfere with the rights or well-being of other students, and the threat of student harassment and pressure must be carefully monitored. It is also critical to ensure that the religious activity is actually student-initiated, and that no school employee supervises or participates in the activity. Any school promotion or endorsement of a student's private religious activity is unconstitutional.

Isn't it disruptive of both the class and the students education to have muslims going in and out at odd times?

Also, allowing them out of class when others are not allowed out of class is endorsement.

Why do you aclu types love islam so much? If this was some christian sect who had special praying times, you know full well it wouldn't be allowed. You guys are horribly hypocritical and transparent.

 

[Annie]

From the adl website.




Isn't it disruptive of both the class and the students education to have muslims going in and out at odd times?

Yes, it would be.

Why do you aclu types love islam so much? If this was some christian sect who had special praying times, you know full well it wouldn't be allowed. You guys are horribly hypocritical and transparent.

Because they are 'persecuted' and 'special'. Normally I do not go for this type of attack, but in this case, the excuses and twisting are beyond the pale.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You two lefties are disgusting bigoted individuals.

 

[Nienna]

I'll be glad to. Some men and women, like mommy and daddy love the opposite gender, other men and women like the same gender. They love differently. As for what a prostitute is, that's a woman who does grown-up things for money. Praying in public is fine, just remember there are people who have different beliefs than you and remember how it might make you feel if they prayed when you had no choice to but to listen.

Need any more help, Mom?

acludem

That might be fine for an explanation to YOUR kids, but, see, we have different beliefs. We would like to preserve the innocence of our children at least until puberty. But we cannot do this when the public sector is innundated with ideas and images that are contrary to our beliefs. So yes, Christians ARE restricted, WITHOUT the public outcry received by gays.

 

[Nienna]

Actually, most laws are based on freedom. If someone kills they are taking away another's freedom. If someone steals, they are infringing upon another's freedom to own their property unobstructed.

No, the laws you mentioned are based upon the moral judgment that some people have more of a RIGHT to property than others, that earning and paying for property is a better way to obtain it than taking someone else's without their permission. Or the moral judgment that people have the RIGHT to be alive. That being alive is of high value, and worth protecting.

When have you been prohibited from following your own conscience and the tenets of your religion? Has your church been locked by the government? Have you been forced to go underground and hide your religion? Are you prohibited from wearing signs of your devotion? Have you been prevented from voting because of your religious beliefs? Been stripped of your citizenship?

I'd say the answer to all of that is no and what we're really talking about is a desire of some to impose their own religious tents on others.

Thankfully, it hasn't gone that far in this country...YET. It happens to others in other countries daily, because their governments have made the moral judgment that Christianity is wrong/harmful/whatever. The desire to PROTECT the erosion of this freedom is what sparks many Christian groups to call out "Battle Cries." Because Christianity is becoming less and less "tolerable" in this culture.

You also asked a question earlier about should Christians be denied a voice in government when gays are allowed their voice, etc.?

That was an interesting question but there are different rules applying to religion because of the First Amendment than to other interest groups. Additionally, Churches and other houses of worship are different as well because they avail themselves of tax exempt status stemming from that same First Amendment.

Of course, people have different ideas about how exactly the First Amendment should be interpreted. To me, it seems pretty clear that the government should not try to control or force religion, but that religious people are free to bring their ideas and beliefs into the public sector.

 

[Nienna]

A government school isn't a place for worship, though.

This statement shows that you don't have a good grasp on what exactly it means to be a Christian. Christianity should not be compartmentalized. A Christian should TRY to worship every moment of the day.

 

[PsuedoGhost]

That might be fine for an explanation to YOUR kids, but, see, we have different beliefs. We would like to preserve the innocence of our children at least until puberty. But we cannot do this when the public sector is innundated with ideas and images that are contrary to our beliefs. So yes, Christians ARE restricted, WITHOUT the public outcry received by gays.

You are incredibly nieve to believe that your kids are not seeing/hearing these kinds of things at school from their peers. Face the music, innocence is lost at an incredibly young age. Sad, yes. But you can't deny the reality of the situation.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You are incredibly nieve to believe that your kids are not seeing/hearing these kinds of things at school from their peers. Face the music, innocence is lost at an incredibly young age. Sad, yes. But you can't deny the reality of the situation.

It's especially sad when schools are actively normalizing this crap. You think parents should just accept losing control over their children's minds? Why? So you lefties can take them over? Over our dead bodies.

 

[Nienna]

You are incredibly nieve to believe that your kids are not seeing/hearing these kinds of things at school from their peers. Face the music, innocence is lost at an incredibly young age. Sad, yes. But you can't deny the reality of the situation.

Why should we have welfare? Why should we have medicaid? We're always going to have poor people and old people. Why should we do the DARE program in schools? People will always do drugs.

Why not fight to protect and preserve whatever good we can? Why not prevent the loss of innocence whenever we can? Or do you think that sanctioning perversion, or apathetically hiding from it will HELP any child?

 

[GotZoom]

You are incredibly nieve to believe that your kids are not seeing/hearing these kinds of things at school from their peers. Face the music, innocence is lost at an incredibly young age. Sad, yes. But you can't deny the reality of the situation.

In Psuedo's school, the kid's day would start like this:

Mrs. Smith: Good morning class! Did everyone have a fucking fastastic weekend?

Class (all at once): YES MRS. JONES!!! OUR WEEKEND WAS FUCKING AWESOME!!

 

[MissileMan]

This statement shows that you don't have a good grasp on what exactly it means to be a Christian. Christianity should not be compartmentalized. A Christian should TRY to worship every moment of the day.

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Verse 1 would include worship wouldn't it? Why is appropriate time and place such a difficult concept for some folks to grasp?

 

[liberalogic]

Why should we have welfare? Why should we have medicaid? We're always going to have poor people and old people. Why should we do the DARE program in schools? People will always do drugs.

Why not fight to protect and preserve whatever good we can? Why not prevent the loss of innocence whenever we can? Or do you think that sanctioning perversion, or apathetically hiding from it will HELP any child?

A couple of things:

First off, with censorship, I actually agree with you to a certain point. I'm not an anarchist and I do believe in sensitivity towards others' beliefs. Basic television (not cable/satellite tv), should be subject to standards because it is available to you when you plug your tv in. They have attempted to strengthen these standards with increased fines and the ratings that appear before the programs. If you're watching a children's show, then advertisements promoted during that slot should be more appropriate than a Sringer bit. But as the parent, once that time slot of children's tv is over, it should then be your responsibility to change it or turn it off. To me, that's a very fair compromise-- especially in your case because I would bet my life that you're a VERY responsible parent.

When we delve into satellite television, though, it's no holds-barred. This is something that people pay extra to watch and they should be allowed to experience sex, drugs, violence and profanity all they want. But the beauty of these systems, though, is that you can control what your kids watch with one click of the remote.

As for gays kissing, I'm sorry, but you just have to deal with that. That stems beyond marriage and to PERSONAL freedom. You and I alike have the right to be revolted by it, but we have no right to stop them. If you want them to do it in their houses only, then so does everyone else. And if you feel the need to explain it to your children, acludem's post is a FANTASTIC way to do so.

The price of preserving innocence AT ALL costs, undermines the freedom that we have as Americans. We should be more sensitive to it, but it's not worth sacrificing freedom to the extent that you desire.

And I understand why you and other conservatives are turned off by many liberal activists. I see and hear them too. They often come across as arrogant and sometimes irrational, which distorts the meaning of their ideas. Again, though, you are open to practice christianity freely. But christian activists are attempting to put limits on EVERYONE, not just themselves. I just want to put limits on guns (and I don't even want to eliminate them, just make sure the right people get them).

 

[Hobbit]

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Verse 1 would include worship wouldn't it? Why is appropriate time and place such a difficult concept for some folks to grasp?

First off, it never says there is a time and season to not do everything.

Second off:
-I Corinthians 10:31 - Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Everything is worship, and it is not up to the state to decide when is the appropriate time, so long as it does not disrupt the school. There is no wrong time or place to worship.