Batman & The Rule of Law: Political Relevance

[The Original Tree]

Many people watch a movie like Batman Begins, and gloss right over some of the truths spoken in such a film, or in the comic books. Batman is the way he is, because of injustice, and not because of cruelty or a desire for vengeance, but because of the weak resolve of others who fail to act, and fail to carry out their duties.

This sums up that sentiment in one perfect clip.

It's a statement about the rule of law vs. coddling criminal behavior



"Criminals Thrive On The Indulgences Of Society's "Understanding"

What does that mean?

It means essentially that the overwhelming majority of criminals take advantage of weak laws, and weak lawmakers who are soft on crime.

Things like Sanctuary Cities are not a kindness, they are an invitation to criminals to prey upon people and society who live in such a lax system.

We see it time and time again in Sanctuary Cities.

Illegal Alien deported 8 times kills woman and baby while driving drunk without a license or insurance, or some MS-13 or other gang either is murdering a community with Fentanyl and Heroin, preying upon the weak and defenseless, and flaunting the law as the paper tiger politicians have made it to be.

To Weaken The Rule of Law is to make you, your family, your neighbors and friends victims for predators.

To Fail to Enforce The Law is the same.

The immigration problem is a simple one to solve. Simply enforce and strengthen the law if necessary so that America is not seen as happy hunting grounds for the predators who want to take advantage of the bleeding hearts, the naive liberals, and those who lack resolve to maintain a just society.

For No Society can be JUST without JUSTICE.

And if there are no JUST Men who believe in Justice and in The Rule of Law, there is No Society.

 

[Lewdog]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

 

[The Original Tree]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

Batman understands Due Process, and Presumption of Innocence and Civil Rights.

In fact he often works with Law Enforcement to capture and turn over criminals to The Justice System.

This is how The Joker ended up in Arkham Asylum.

It is only when men fail to carry out their duties to uphold the law, ensure justice, and protect the innocent, when that system of justice fails because of the weakness of men, that Batman steps in to fill the gap.

 

[The Original Tree]

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

 

[The Original Tree]

Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

 

[occupied]

Where societies set the balance between liberty and security define them as decent or despotic. You can attempt to solve society's problems with more cops, more prisons, tougher penalties ect. but at some point it becomes burdensome on law abiding citizens. No political group that ever pushed for police state tactics to combat crime have ever had honorable intentions, they had a target.

 

[Lewdog]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

Batman understands Due Process, and Presumption of Innocence and Civil Rights.

In fact he often works with Law Enforcement to capture and turn over criminals to The Justice System.

This is how The Joker ended up in Arkham Asylum.

It is only when men fail to carry out their duties to uphold the law, ensure justice, and protect the innocent, when that system of justice fails because of the weakness of men, that Batman steps in to fill the gap.

No he doesn't... Batman is a vigilante. You are talking to the wrong person about comic book characters. I've forgotten more about comics than you know.

 

[Lewdog]

Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

If you are going to link something, at least make it reputable and not some opinion piece from a crap site.

 

[occupied]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

Batman understands Due Process, and Presumption of Innocence and Civil Rights.

In fact he often works with Law Enforcement to capture and turn over criminals to The Justice System.

This is how The Joker ended up in Arkham Asylum.

It is only when men fail to carry out their duties to uphold the law, ensure justice, and protect the innocent, when that system of justice fails because of the weakness of men, that Batman steps in to fill the gap.

No he doesn't... Batman is a vigilante. You are talking to the wrong person about comic book characters. I've forgotten more about comics than you know.

What makes Batman interesting is that he is ambiguous in nearly every way. The case can be made that he is righteous or vengeful, servant of the law or vigilante, sane or crazy. The modern Batman is an exploration of every question of crime and punishment, there is nothing clear-cut about that.

 

[Lewdog]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

Batman understands Due Process, and Presumption of Innocence and Civil Rights.

In fact he often works with Law Enforcement to capture and turn over criminals to The Justice System.

This is how The Joker ended up in Arkham Asylum.

It is only when men fail to carry out their duties to uphold the law, ensure justice, and protect the innocent, when that system of justice fails because of the weakness of men, that Batman steps in to fill the gap.

No he doesn't... Batman is a vigilante. You are talking to the wrong person about comic book characters. I've forgotten more about comics than you know.

What makes Batman interesting is that he is ambiguous in nearly every way. The case can be made that he is righteous or vengeful, servant of the law or vigilante, sane or crazy. The modern Batman is an exploration of every question of crime and punishment, there is nothing clear-cut about that.

Well the difficult thing to debate about Batman is, there are many different variations of him. There are some where he would never kill someone, and then there are those that he does. There are some where he works with the police... then there are those where he works in the shadows only working with commissioner Gordon, and he is an enemy of the police.

Batman however is much closer to Judge Dredd or the Punisher than he is to the rule of law.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

 

[Montrovant]

What you think is a weakened rule of law, is the basis of democracy and the foundation of our country, that everyone has rights and people are innocent until proven guilty. Batman is a vigilante who doesn't worry about those things, and because he is a fallible human-being, he is sometimes wrong.

Batman understands Due Process, and Presumption of Innocence and Civil Rights.

In fact he often works with Law Enforcement to capture and turn over criminals to The Justice System.

This is how The Joker ended up in Arkham Asylum.

It is only when men fail to carry out their duties to uphold the law, ensure justice, and protect the innocent, when that system of justice fails because of the weakness of men, that Batman steps in to fill the gap.

Batman understands and ignores due process, presumption of innocence and civil rights. The opinion article you linked to which for some reason assumes a vigilante must be acting in the name of vengeance notwithstanding, the character of Batman is a textbook definition of a vigilante: he takes the law into his own hands, he enforces the law without the legal right to do so, he enforces his own idea of justice when he feels the legal system has failed.

It's kind of funny that you use a quote in the OP from Ra's Al Ghul; that character is the villain of the movie, a megalomaniac and mass murderer.

Filling in the gap when a "system of justice fails" is what defines vigilante justice.

 

[The Original Tree]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

if you say so tree....i read the comic a lot back in the 50's and 60's....the guy was out for vengeance against anyone who was like the lowlife who killed his parents....

 

[Lewdog]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

Batman has been exacting vengeance ever since his parents were murdered... Do you even know your comic canon?

 

[occupied]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

\

The character of Batman has been molded to deliberately call into question Bruce Wayne's motivations. We are supposed to see a tortured man with colossal internal conflicts, not a man who has the answer to anything. He fights crime but he fights his inner demons most of all.

 

[The Original Tree]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

if you say so tree....i read the comic a lot back in the 50's and 60's....the guy was out for vengeance against anyone who was like the lowlife who killed his parents....

There is a difference between Vengeance and Righteous Indignation. I have read a lot of books on vengeance and articles on whether or not Batman is a vigilante, or an unencumbered extension of law enforcement.

Since Batman, through his history, has often cooperated with Law Enforcement, particularly working closely with Commissioner Gordon, who's own daughter by the way is "Batgirl" in part became "Batgirl" by being inspired by Batman, and her own father's quest for justice in Gotham City, Batman by most logical reasoning is an extension of Law Enforcement more akin to a lone wolf one man SWAT team than he is a vigilante.

Vengeance does not propel a man in to a career of crime fighting. Once a man achieves vengeance, he usually goes back to a routine life.

Think of Batman then more along the lines of a Knight......The Dark Knight...who is engaged in a Holy War against Evil, Crime and Injustice.

His parent's death may at first propelled him to become Batman...but it is not what continues to keep Batman, Batman.

Bruce Wayne is a much nicer life, after his parent's killer was brought to justice. So there is no reason if Batman were about vengeance to continue to be Batman. "For what does it profit a man to gain the entire world, if he loses his soul?"

People evolve....and Batman evolved....from a traumatized young man.....to perhaps at first wanting to seek vengeance....to then devoting his life to fighting crime in a noble and worthy cause.

Batman's cause is then a Righteous One, and his convictions are more akin to a priest or exorcist who devotes his life to serving God and vanquishing Demons.

He is every bit a Knight who lives by a code....as a Templar did in The Crusades, being The Dark Knight. In fact, Batman is called "The Caped Crusader."

Batman has no super power, but his Moral Convictions and his Righteous Indignation and Contempt for Evil and Lawlessness.

Batman's crusade is to adjudicate and enforce The Rule of Law, when cowards and limp wristed politicians fail to perform their duties and oaths to do so.

 

[The Original Tree]

To follow up on the above thoughts

"Criminals Thrive On The Indulgences Of Society's "Understanding"

So what is Batman's Role given this statement?

He offers No Indulgences.

The Catholic Church can offer you an "Indulgence" for a price.

Batman has no price.

He believes there is no excuse for crime. He has no Understanding or Mercy for Criminals or Forgiveness, as Criminals have no Mercy or Understanding for their victims.

Batman is so convicted in his belief in The Rule of Law and his Moral Code that he is even willing to take on Superman and call him to Justice.

And in giving Superman an Attitude Adjustment and clearer thinking, The Justice League was born.

No man is above The Law, not even Supermen.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Batman is not involved in vengeance. Vengeance typically involves an injustice done to oneself, whereas Batman exacts justice on Evil doers on behalf of victims he has no personal relationship with.

The driving force behind Bruce Wayne is his parents' murder right in front of him and their absence in his life.....yes he had a great desire for vengeance....

I disagree. He was not a vigilante. He was an extension of the law unencumbered by the weakness of timid and effeminate men and politicians.

"He doesn’t avenge his parents.

The only reason Batman fights crime is because he hates crime. Crime isn’t a person; it’s an ideal. Sure, his parents getting gun downed in front of him was a motivator, but he set down his desire to avenge them and took on a higher calling."
Why Batman is Not a Vigilante

did i say he was vigilante?.........i said he has a great desire for vengeance .....

if you say so tree....i read the comic a lot back in the 50's and 60's....the guy was out for vengeance against anyone who was like the lowlife who killed his parents....

There is a difference between Vengeance and Righteous Indignation. I have read a lot of books on vengeance and articles on whether or not Batman is a vigilante, or an unencumbered extension of law enforcement.

Since Batman, through his history, has often cooperated with Law Enforcement, particularly working closely with Commissioner Gordon, who's own daughter by the way is "Batgirl" in part became "Batgirl" by being inspired by Batman, and her own father's quest for justice in Gotham City, Batman by most logical reasoning is an extension of Law Enforcement more akin to a lone wolf one man SWAT team than he is a vigilante.

Vengeance does not propel a man in to a career of crime fighting. Once a man achieves vengeance, he usually goes back to a routine life.

Think of Batman then more along the lines of a Knight......The Dark Knight...who is engaged in a Holy War against Evil, Crime and Injustice.

His parent's death may at first propelled him to become Batman...but it is not what continues to keep Batman, Batman.

Bruce Wayne is a much nicer life, after his parent's killer was brought to justice. So there is no reason if Batman were about vengeance to continue to be Batman. "For what does it profit a man to gain the entire world, if he loses his soul?"

People evolve....and Batman evolved....from a traumatized young man.....to perhaps at first wanting to seek vengeance....to then devoting his life to fighting crime in a noble and worthy cause.

Batman's cause is then a Righteous One, and his convictions are more akin to a priest or exorcist who devotes his life to serving God and vanquishing Demons.

He is every bit a Knight who lives by a code....as a Templar did in The Crusades, being The Dark Knight. In fact, Batman is called "The Caped Crusader."

Batman has no super power, but his Moral Convictions and his Righteous Indignation and Contempt for Evil and Lawlessness.

Batman's crusade is to adjudicate and enforce The Rule of Law, when cowards and limp wristed politicians fail to perform their duties and oaths to do so.

when Batman started out he was a vigilante out for vengeance against those who were criminals in Gotham because of his parents murder....because of the comics code that came out in the mid 50's they had to tone it down and make him a somewhat nicer guy....