Baseball HOF vote tmrw Jan 9

[Dreamy]

All denied!

The first time since 1996 and just the eighth time in Baseball Hall of Fame history.

 

[deaddogseye]

[
What do you mean using PEDs didn't help their careers. It was the key to their careers.

BS. Consider Bonds. He was a fantastic player his first twelve or so years before he bulked up. After bulking up he was a better power hitter but lost his foot speed and went downhill in every other phase of the game. The added strength did NOT make him a better overall player. Being a pitcher and not needing foot speed, Clemens may have benefited a little from bulking up, but like Bonds he was sensational long before he used roids (if he did use them).

Bulking up (whether due to PEDs or just weightlifting) was NOT key to their careers.

i agree with you that bonds was a top tier player before roids BUT ater even if he declined in every other facet of the game as you say he produced numbers that put him in the conversation as one of the very greatest of all time -- he was NEVER mentioed in that category before . So bottom line as far pure baseball stuff and leaving out the cheating issues and consequences he benefitted greatly

 

[TruthSeeker56]

All denied!

The first time since 1996 and just the eighth time in Baseball Hall of Fame history.

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right.

 

[rightwinger]

All denied!

The first time since 1996 and just the eighth time in Baseball Hall of Fame history.

Amazing

Looking at numbers only, you had the greatest group of candidates since the first class

 

[Rocko]

Bernie Williams got less than 3% to vote for him, now he can never get in.

 

[rightwinger]

Bernie Williams got less than 3% to vote for him, now he can never get in.

Good player and the heart of some Championship teams but not a Hall of Famer

 

[rightwinger]

Lets see if the voters have the balls to block Bud Selig when he comes up for a vote

As the steroid scandal was exploding all around him, Bud thought it was a good idea to check and see if the ball was juiced. Everyone who knew anything about baseball knew something was not right with these players. For Selig to play stupid while owners reaped the profits from huge power numbers was just as criminal as the players who used the stuff

 

[Mad Scientist]

All denied!

The first time since 1996 and just the eighth time in Baseball Hall of Fame history.

Amazing

Looking at numbers only, you had the greatest group of candidates since the first class

Thanks to Steroids!

Major League Baseball looked the other way because ratings were up and people loved watching 3 players reach for 70 homers. Of course they knew what was going on.

Then what happens to the players who helped restore ratings after the Baseball Strike?

They get screwed. Like a used up crack whore, they get the "draino" treatment.

The only sad part of all this are the minor league players who didn't cheat and as a result never made to the "Big Show", which should be called the "Cheat Show" from now on.

 

[Meathead]

Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and all the juicers should never share to HOF with the likes of Ruth, Mays and Ryan. When anyone starts putting up numbers in their late thirties they couldn't produce in their prime, with the exception of knuckleballers and slow-pitch guys like Moyer, they're cheating.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

All denied!

The first time since 1996 and just the eighth time in Baseball Hall of Fame history.

Amazing

Looking at numbers only, you had the greatest group of candidates since the first class

Absolutely correct. GREAT group of players, and NOBODY made it.

Bonds will never make it. McGwire will never make it. They are both as tainted as Pete Rose is.

If anybody cares, here is my breakdown of this year's nominees:

Biggio will eventually make it. It's not his fault he played in Houston.

Schilling is borderline, although I believe Schilling had a great career and is one of the best "clutch" starting pitchers EVER. He may not have enough wins, and he was a bit of a "late bloomer". His best years were with the D-Backs and Red Sox, and he has a couple of World Series rings. And, most importantly in today's world, there were never any rumors about Schilling using 'roids or other performance enhancers.

Piazza will eventually make it. Easily one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball history, but an average defensive catcher, at best.

Sosa is borderline. Strictly a "one tool" player. AWFUL defensive player. Rumors of 'roid use but no actual proof.

Clemens should be a shoo-in, and I believe that he will eventually make it.

Bagwell will eventually make it.

Jack Morris and Lee Smith both should make it, but they are running out of time.

Nevertheless, this year's class was an All-Star team of players.

There are many players in the Hall Of Fame who would not be elected in today's "PC" world. Racists, alcoholics, morally bankrupt scumbags, players who cheated in other ways, players who gambled and never got caught, players who threw games and never got caught, etc..............too many to list here.

 

[Meathead]

Greg Maddux a shoe-in in first vote next year.

 

[rightwinger]

Greg Maddux a shoe-in in first vote next year.

Glavine too

 

[Gadawg73]

No surprise with the vote on that era of players but this is the classic when a wrong is a right.
Take a look at the statistics of that era, the massive increase in HRs, baseball card photos of most of the players from one year to the next to see the size increase and most importantly THE INCREASE IN FANNIES IN THE SEATS.
And out of the thousands of players in pro baseball how many actually got "caught"?
Maybe 5% of all that were juicing. And why?
Because owners did not care and NO player that was not juicing is going to rat out any other player.
The owners looked the other way and the "it must be a different baseball we are using" BS to have an excuse why all of a sudden players have turned into man mountains hitting 70 HRs a year instead of admitting the obvious: the majority of the top stars were juicing.
Add in the CBA which at that time had little to no remedies to allow across the board testing. The owners did not really want it. Tickets sold was rising with each HR hit by Bonds, McGwire and Sosa just to name a few, beer and hot dog sales were through the roof and ratings, oh the lifeblood of all pro sports these days, were increasing league revenues split evenly to each team over 10% a year in that era.
What the sportswriters did was wrong but considering the rule of silence in that era amongst everyone in baseball from owners down to players that were clean it was right.

 

[GHook93]

My corrections in red!

Absolutely correct. GREAT group of players, and NOBODY made it.

Bonds will never make it. McGwire will never make it. They are both as tainted as Pete Rose is. Bonds might have a shot, but Big Mac, no way! I think both get denied.

If anybody cares, here is my breakdown of this year's nominees:

Biggio will eventually make it. It's not his fault he played in Houston. What BS that he didn't make it! His numbers are right behind Hornsby as a 2B! Amazing snub! Should have at least been the token selection! He will eventually make it!

Schilling is borderline, although I believe Schilling had a great career and is one of the best "clutch" starting pitchers EVER. He may not have enough wins, and he was a bit of a "late bloomer". His best years were with the D-Backs and Red Sox, and he has a couple of World Series rings. And, most importantly in today's world, there were never any rumors about Schilling using 'roids or other performance enhancers. Schilling should be easy in. Still have 216 Ws, 60% winning percentage, 3.46 ERA in the steroid era is huge, 6 Allstars, 3 World Series rings, 3K strike outs and he was one of the most clutch post-season pitcher ever! He will make it eventually.

Piazza will eventually make it. Easily one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball history, but an average defensive catcher, at best. I believe he was denied because of steroid doubts. Defense poor, but offensive game was amazing. Question mark on him!

Sosa is borderline. Strictly a "one tool" player. AWFUL defensive player. Rumors of 'roid use but no actual proof. He gets he was only a power hitter! Sorry but a guy that drove in 160 RBI in a season, 143, 119 twice and a bunch more over 100 RBI was more than a one trick pony. Until they let steroid players in he will get denied like Bonds and Clemens!

Clemens should be a shoo-in, and I believe that he will eventually make it. See Bonds!

Bagwell will eventually make it. See Bonds

Jack Morris and Lee Smith both should make it, but they are running out of time. Lee Smith was one of my favs when I was a kid. He had such power to his pitches and he was so clutch. But the voters hate relievers for some odd reason, therefore they will deny one of the best closers in the game the HOF. Morris should be in and I think he will make it, but they will wait him out!

Nevertheless, this year's class was an All-Star team of players.

 

[rightwinger]

No surprise with the vote on that era of players but this is the classic when a wrong is a right.
Take a look at the statistics of that era, the massive increase in HRs, baseball card photos of most of the players from one year to the next to see the size increase and most importantly THE INCREASE IN FANNIES IN THE SEATS.
And out of the thousands of players in pro baseball how many actually got "caught"?
Maybe 5% of all that were juicing. And why?
Because owners did not care and NO player that was not juicing is going to rat out any other player.
The owners looked the other way and the "it must be a different baseball we are using" BS to have an excuse why all of a sudden players have turned into man mountains hitting 70 HRs a year instead of admitting the obvious: the majority of the top stars were juicing.
Add in the CBA which at that time had little to no remedies to allow across the board testing. The owners did not really want it. Tickets sold was rising with each HR hit by Bonds, McGwire and Sosa just to name a few, beer and hot dog sales were through the roof and ratings, oh the lifeblood of all pro sports these days, were increasing league revenues split evenly to each team over 10% a year in that era.
What the sportswriters did was wrong but considering the rule of silence in that era amongst everyone in baseball from owners down to players that were clean it was right.

Very well put

The very same baseball writers who sanctimoneously blocked admittance to the HOF fell all over themselves writing about the greatness of McQuire, Sosa and Bonds.

They see these players every day, they hear the grumbling in the locker room, they hear the rumours. Instead of questioning why the physical appearance and stats of players were changing, they gave us articles about juiced baseballs

Bunch of hypocrits pretending to protect the game

 

[Meathead]

All Time Steroid Team:

Starters
Lenny Dykstra
Miguel Tejada
Gary Sheffield
Barry Bonds
Mark McGwire
Jason Giambi
Ivan Rodriguez
Ken Caminiti
Brian Roberts

Bench
Jose Canseco
Rafael Palmeiro
Bret Boone
Jim Leyritz
Benito Santiago

Rotatiion
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Finley
Wilson Alvarez
Ryan Franklin

Bullpen
John Rocker
Jason Grimsley
Paxton Crawford
Tony Saunders
Juan Rincon
Tom House

 

[Gadawg73]

No surprise with the vote on that era of players but this is the classic when a wrong is a right.
Take a look at the statistics of that era, the massive increase in HRs, baseball card photos of most of the players from one year to the next to see the size increase and most importantly THE INCREASE IN FANNIES IN THE SEATS.
And out of the thousands of players in pro baseball how many actually got "caught"?
Maybe 5% of all that were juicing. And why?
Because owners did not care and NO player that was not juicing is going to rat out any other player.
The owners looked the other way and the "it must be a different baseball we are using" BS to have an excuse why all of a sudden players have turned into man mountains hitting 70 HRs a year instead of admitting the obvious: the majority of the top stars were juicing.
Add in the CBA which at that time had little to no remedies to allow across the board testing. The owners did not really want it. Tickets sold was rising with each HR hit by Bonds, McGwire and Sosa just to name a few, beer and hot dog sales were through the roof and ratings, oh the lifeblood of all pro sports these days, were increasing league revenues split evenly to each team over 10% a year in that era.
What the sportswriters did was wrong but considering the rule of silence in that era amongst everyone in baseball from owners down to players that were clean it was right.

Very well put

The very same baseball writers who sanctimoneously blocked admittance to the HOF fell all over themselves writing about the greatness of McQuire, Sosa and Bonds.

They see these players every day, they hear the grumbling in the locker room, they hear the rumours. Instead of questioning why the physical appearance and stats of players were changing, they gave us articles about juiced baseballs

Bunch of hypocrits pretending to protect the game

You hit it right on the nail with the grumbling in the locker room.
The players that were clean KNEW it as the level of competition to make it to the show is intense.
Players ALWAYS KNOW.
Locker rooms tell no lies especially with silence.

 

[Gadawg73]

All Time Steroid Team:

Starters
Lenny Dykstra
Miguel Tejada
Gary Sheffield
Barry Bonds
Mark McGwire
Jason Giambi
Ivan Rodriguez
Ken Caminiti
Brian Roberts

Bench
Jose Canseco
Rafael Palmeiro
Bret Boone
Jim Leyritz
Benito Santiago

Rotatiion
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Finley
Wilson Alvarez
Ryan Franklin

Bullpen
John Rocker
Jason Grimsley
Paxton Crawford
Tony Saunders
Juan Rincon
Tom House

Tip of the iceberg but you are on it!

 

[Gadawg73]

One of my sons played high school football in the late 90s to 2002. They were state ranked and in a very tough region north of Atlanta his senior year. Could not tell you the many times that us Dads that had played ball lined up at the fence before games to see the opposing teams take the field. Vividly remember a very good team that waxed our ass 1st game of his sophomore year as those boys were lined up to take the field. Half the team looked like offensive guards, 5'10", 280 lbs, pimples on their arms like all rhoided up players look like and necks like The Incredible Hulk.
The boys knew it. Not the only team they faced over 3 years that looked that way.
We beat them by 3 TDs his senior year as most of those rhoid kids graduated or were caught behind the scenes by the coach there.
Sad across the board with the juice. Started in the Olympics, the era of Lyle Alzado with the Raiders, spread to track and field everywhere and then the injections of baseball players.
Have to start somewhere with a wrong being a right and am glad to see it.
You teach a kid that his work is in the weight room and the practice field 11 months of the year.
I hope none of these juicers ever makes it to the Hall.
Sad fact is most will as the majority of them never got caught.

 

[rightwinger]

No surprise with the vote on that era of players but this is the classic when a wrong is a right.
Take a look at the statistics of that era, the massive increase in HRs, baseball card photos of most of the players from one year to the next to see the size increase and most importantly THE INCREASE IN FANNIES IN THE SEATS.
And out of the thousands of players in pro baseball how many actually got "caught"?
Maybe 5% of all that were juicing. And why?
Because owners did not care and NO player that was not juicing is going to rat out any other player.
The owners looked the other way and the "it must be a different baseball we are using" BS to have an excuse why all of a sudden players have turned into man mountains hitting 70 HRs a year instead of admitting the obvious: the majority of the top stars were juicing.
Add in the CBA which at that time had little to no remedies to allow across the board testing. The owners did not really want it. Tickets sold was rising with each HR hit by Bonds, McGwire and Sosa just to name a few, beer and hot dog sales were through the roof and ratings, oh the lifeblood of all pro sports these days, were increasing league revenues split evenly to each team over 10% a year in that era.
What the sportswriters did was wrong but considering the rule of silence in that era amongst everyone in baseball from owners down to players that were clean it was right.

Very well put

The very same baseball writers who sanctimoneously blocked admittance to the HOF fell all over themselves writing about the greatness of McQuire, Sosa and Bonds.

They see these players every day, they hear the grumbling in the locker room, they hear the rumours. Instead of questioning why the physical appearance and stats of players were changing, they gave us articles about juiced baseballs

Bunch of hypocrits pretending to protect the game

You hit it right on the nail with the grumbling in the locker room.
The players that were clean KNEW it as the level of competition to make it to the show is intense.
Players ALWAYS KNOW.
Locker rooms tell no lies especially with silence.

Players know. Trainers know. Scouts know

They know the skills each player has. They can spot a minor deviation in a swing or pitching motion. Yet they couldn't notice that the guys hat size increased four sizes?

They don't notice Lenny Dykstra morphing from a skinny punch and judy hitter to a Popeye sized homerun hitter in one off season?