Baseball HOF anomalies

[Andrew2382]

94 expos were in first place in 94

 

[Xenophon]

Pedro is automatic first ballot HOF...no question

Try reading the thread.

He is not even close, and a lot of you surprise me how little you know the game, you think a guy who was shit for 11 years go to the hall, on the first ballot no less!

Koufax had 165
Dizzy Dean had 150

Both careers ended by severe injuries.

You want to comapre that with a guy who just stinks it up for 11 years?

Now you are just trolling

Your anti-Pedro bias is getting pretty lame

Can you name one pitcher....just one....who has 100 more wins than losses and is not in the HOF?

Can you name one pitcher with 3 Cy Youngs that was retired and isn't in the HOF?

First ballot....No brainer

Anyone who thinks he's a first ballot HoF has no brain is certainly correct.

I already proved over and over he doesn't rate.

 

[Oddball]

And Xeno, it's so hard for me to remember the Expos having a good team, they remind me of the Nationals of now. I think they had Vlad though, didn't they? That might have been after Pedro had already left though.

They had a consistently strong contending team in the '80s.

 

[Xenophon]

If pedro gets in, 50 years from now, someone will be writing how they let in such an undeserving pitcher based on a 7 year window.

A lot of you keep saying how this or that guy got in, when the stats aern't great, for the same reason a lot of you are trying to get pedro in, because for a short time he dominated, and it was wrong then and now.

The Hall however is supposed to represent a player's entire career, or large parts of it.

2/3 of pedro's career is an average pitcher.

Doesn't rate the hall, if the argument is three cy youngs, then induct Marriss for 4 years, or Guidry for 6, or a lot of other players who had these 'windows' but couldn't maintain it, just like pedro did not.

Only a fool calls 'trolling' pointing out the Pedro doesn't belong.

 

[Paulie]

And Xeno, it's so hard for me to remember the Expos having a good team, they remind me of the Nationals of now. I think they had Vlad though, didn't they? That might have been after Pedro had already left though.

They had a consistently strong contending team in the '80s.

Yeah, I was a mere young lad back then though.

I'm talking about when Pedro was there.

They've only been to the postseason once in their history, and have typically ended their seasons with losing records. The Nationals also start off with promising seasons and then fade away.

They played in the NL East, and I always remember them being near the bottom of the list. They had a good Pirates and Mets team to deal with in the 80's and early 90's (Pirates) at the time, and then a good Braves team in the 90's.

Let's just allow for the sake of argument that the Expos were not the best team for Pedro to be taking advantage of his potential. I'll end with that.

We could make excuses all day for both sides of the coin. But sports writers like Pedro, so I see him getting in at some point. Even if not first ballot.

If he comes out in the Series this week and pitches a gem, I think that one event ALONE helps change things.

 

[rightwinger]

OK

Then lets look at his entire career
.687 winning percentage (Only Whitey Ford is higher)
100 more wins than losses (no pitcher with this stat is not in HOF)
2.93 ERA lower than Randy Johnson, Gregg Maddux, Roger Clemmens
3154 Ks (Only Blyleven has 3000 Ks and is not in)
3 CY Young wins 2 second place
Average 242 Ks per year

So the guy has Wins, Strikeouts and a low ERA...what else do you want from a pitcher?

In this era of pitchers, no brainer First ballot HOF

 

[Paulie]

Xeno, one day, just for fun, we should go over all the score cards from Pedro's games and get a conclusion on HOF status based on the most factual info available. Did he lose some wins because of the bullpen? Did he lack run support on certain starts?

A player's stats alone are not the only indication of their overall worth.

There's a chance his numbers you see on MLB stat sites aren't telling the whole story.

And I'm certainly not a Pedro fanatic. I just like to take everything into consideration. Maube some of his less then stellar years regarding wins totals weren't because HE didn't get the job done.

He played a lot in the NL. There were a lot of times he had to be taken out early for the sake of needing a bat when he was due up next inning.

Also, his Mets years are DEFINITELY tainting the debate. If were to erase them from existence, does that change ANYTHING in your eyes?

Do you swear on the holy bible that your opinion has nothing to do with any kind of rivalry, being a yankees fan?

 

[Xenophon]

OK

Then lets look at his entire career
.687 winning percentage (Only Whitey Ford is higher)
100 more wins than losses (no pitcher with this stat is not in HOF)
2.93 ERA lower than Randy Johnson, Gregg Maddux, Roger Clemmens
3154 Ks (Only Blyleven has 3000 Ks and is not in)
3 CY Young wins 2 second place
Average 242 Ks per year

So the guy has Wins, Strikeouts and a low ERA...what else do you want from a pitcher?

In this era of pitchers, no brainer First ballot HOF

You have to have no brain to think a pitcher who was average for ELEVEN YEARS belongs in the hall of fame.

 

[Xenophon]

Xeno, one day, just for fun, we should go over all the score cards from Pedro's games and get a conclusion on HOF status based on the most factual info available. Did he lose some wins because of the bullpen? Did he lack run support on certain starts?

A player's stats alone are not the only indication of their overall worth.

There's a chance his numbers you see on MLB stat sites aren't telling the whole story.

And I'm certainly not a Pedro fanatic. I just like to take everything into consideration. Maube some of his less then stellar years regarding wins totals weren't because HE didn't get the job done.

He played a lot in the NL. There were a lot of times he had to be taken out early for the sake of needing a bat when he was due up next inning.

Also, his Mets years are DEFINITELY tainting the debate. If were to erase them from existence, does that change ANYTHING in your eyes?

Do you swear on the holy bible that your opinion has nothing to do with any kind of rivalry, being a yankees fan?

Why should it matter if I'm a Yankees fan?

And I already pointed out there are pitchers with 300 wins who played on teams that REALLY couldn't hit.

A lot of you are falling for the old stats trap, trying to take this stat or that one to rate a player's worth, instead of the overall numbers.

The FIRST criteria for ANY ball players is, is he a winner.

Pitchers pitch for Wins and Losses first, era and other things are HOW they go about it, but the first criteria is, is he a winner.

No matter how many times I hear about Cy Youngs (a ONE SEASON AWARD) and even ERA, you can't escape the FACT this guy has only 219 wins. That translates to just about 12.1 wins per season.

Hunter pitched 15 seasons, with 224 wins,which works out to 14.9 per season.

Bob Leomon played 13 years and had 207 wins, which works out to 15.9 wins per season.

Seaver had 311 wins over 20 years, or 15.55 per season.

See it now?

Pedro doesn't rate, its as simple as that.

 

[rightwinger]

Pedro Martinez is a better pitcher than any Yankee in history....that is why Xeno is so upset

 

[Paulie]

Xeno, one day, just for fun, we should go over all the score cards from Pedro's games and get a conclusion on HOF status based on the most factual info available. Did he lose some wins because of the bullpen? Did he lack run support on certain starts?

A player's stats alone are not the only indication of their overall worth.

There's a chance his numbers you see on MLB stat sites aren't telling the whole story.

And I'm certainly not a Pedro fanatic. I just like to take everything into consideration. Maube some of his less then stellar years regarding wins totals weren't because HE didn't get the job done.

He played a lot in the NL. There were a lot of times he had to be taken out early for the sake of needing a bat when he was due up next inning.

Also, his Mets years are DEFINITELY tainting the debate. If were to erase them from existence, does that change ANYTHING in your eyes?

Do you swear on the holy bible that your opinion has nothing to do with any kind of rivalry, being a yankees fan?

Why should it matter if I'm a Yankees fan?

And I already pointed out there are pitchers with 300 wins who played on teams that REALLY couldn't hit.

A lot of you are falling for the old stats trap, trying to take this stat or that one to rate a player's worth, instead of the overall numbers.

The FIRST criteria for ANY ball players is, is he a winner.

Pitchers pitch for Wins and Losses first, era and other things are HOW they go about it, but the first criteria is, is he a winner.

No matter how many times I hear about Cy Youngs (a ONE SEASON AWARD) and even ERA, you can't escape the FACT this guy has only 219 wins. That translates to just about 12.1 wins per season.

Hunter pitched 15 seasons, with 224 wins,which works out to 14.9 per season.

Bob Leomon played 13 years and had 207 wins, which works out to 15.9 wins per season.

Seaver had 311 wins over 20 years, or 15.55 per season.

See it now?

Pedro doesn't rate, its as simple as that.

The yankee fan thing only had to do with the fact that he was your rival for a time.

I'm just saying his win totals aren't necessarily indicative of his overall worth, they can be deceiving. One would have to scrutinize score cards and see if there were other factors in why he might have been giving up so little runs, striking out 10 guys, but still getting the L.

Do you get my drift at all?

Lack of run production, and lack of a good bullpen can cost a pitcher a W in an otherwise stellar outing.

 

[Xenophon]

Pedro Martinez is a better pitcher than any Yankee in history....that is why Xeno is so upset

A childish comment, but not unexpected coming from you.

 

[Xenophon]

Xeno, one day, just for fun, we should go over all the score cards from Pedro's games and get a conclusion on HOF status based on the most factual info available. Did he lose some wins because of the bullpen? Did he lack run support on certain starts?

A player's stats alone are not the only indication of their overall worth.

There's a chance his numbers you see on MLB stat sites aren't telling the whole story.

And I'm certainly not a Pedro fanatic. I just like to take everything into consideration. Maube some of his less then stellar years regarding wins totals weren't because HE didn't get the job done.

He played a lot in the NL. There were a lot of times he had to be taken out early for the sake of needing a bat when he was due up next inning.

Also, his Mets years are DEFINITELY tainting the debate. If were to erase them from existence, does that change ANYTHING in your eyes?

Do you swear on the holy bible that your opinion has nothing to do with any kind of rivalry, being a yankees fan?

Why should it matter if I'm a Yankees fan?

And I already pointed out there are pitchers with 300 wins who played on teams that REALLY couldn't hit.

A lot of you are falling for the old stats trap, trying to take this stat or that one to rate a player's worth, instead of the overall numbers.

The FIRST criteria for ANY ball players is, is he a winner.

Pitchers pitch for Wins and Losses first, era and other things are HOW they go about it, but the first criteria is, is he a winner.

No matter how many times I hear about Cy Youngs (a ONE SEASON AWARD) and even ERA, you can't escape the FACT this guy has only 219 wins. That translates to just about 12.1 wins per season.

Hunter pitched 15 seasons, with 224 wins,which works out to 14.9 per season.

Bob Leomon played 13 years and had 207 wins, which works out to 15.9 wins per season.

Seaver had 311 wins over 20 years, or 15.55 per season.

See it now?

Pedro doesn't rate, its as simple as that.

The yankee fan thing only had to do with the fact that he was your rival for a time.

I'm just saying his win totals aren't necessarily indicative of his overall worth, they can be deceiving. One would have to scrutinize score cards and see if there were other factors in why he might have been giving up so little runs, striking out 10 guys, but still getting the L.

Do you get my drift at all?

Lack of run production, and lack of a good bullpen can cost a pitcher a W in an otherwise stellar outing.

The OVERRIDING fact remains that Martinez had 7 great years and 11 mediocre ones.

That is why he is not a HoFer, first or any other ballot wise.

 

[Paulie]

Why should it matter if I'm a Yankees fan?

And I already pointed out there are pitchers with 300 wins who played on teams that REALLY couldn't hit.

A lot of you are falling for the old stats trap, trying to take this stat or that one to rate a player's worth, instead of the overall numbers.

The FIRST criteria for ANY ball players is, is he a winner.

Pitchers pitch for Wins and Losses first, era and other things are HOW they go about it, but the first criteria is, is he a winner.

No matter how many times I hear about Cy Youngs (a ONE SEASON AWARD) and even ERA, you can't escape the FACT this guy has only 219 wins. That translates to just about 12.1 wins per season.

Hunter pitched 15 seasons, with 224 wins,which works out to 14.9 per season.

Bob Leomon played 13 years and had 207 wins, which works out to 15.9 wins per season.

Seaver had 311 wins over 20 years, or 15.55 per season.

See it now?

Pedro doesn't rate, its as simple as that.

The yankee fan thing only had to do with the fact that he was your rival for a time.

I'm just saying his win totals aren't necessarily indicative of his overall worth, they can be deceiving. One would have to scrutinize score cards and see if there were other factors in why he might have been giving up so little runs, striking out 10 guys, but still getting the L.

Do you get my drift at all?

Lack of run production, and lack of a good bullpen can cost a pitcher a W in an otherwise stellar outing.

The OVERRIDING fact remains that Martinez had 7 great years and 11 mediocre ones.

That is why he is not a HoFer, first or any other ballot wise.

I had a huge write up with stats and everything, but I decided to bag it.

You might be right. His years with NY and MON are hurting him, leaving out LA and PHI for now.

But sports writers love him, so you never know. They have the final say.