Barbers & Doctors

[Flanders]

atlasshrugged;6200725

I don't think I made myself clear.

To atlasshrugged: I think you’re as clear as a bell.

atlasshrugged;6200725

Concerning healthcare as a right: how can we say something is a right

To atlasshrugged: Let’s first dispense with Victoria’s pronoun:

Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial "we.” Mark Twain

Socialists and the parasite class are the only ones who say healthcare is a Right.

atlasshrugged;6200725

if we are not capable of giving it to everyone?

To atlasshrugged: You can give anything you want to give. Just do not tell me, or anyone else, what they have to give.

atlasshrugged;6200725

If we were able to treat every disease,

To atlasshrugged: Every disease is treatable. The healthcare industry is built upon treatment.

atlasshrugged;6200725

then if we believed it was a right, we could claim it as such.

To atlasshrugged: Who is doing the claiming? and who pays the claim?

How about trying this. Instead of forcing everyone to pay for socialized medicine, the government only forces every doctor and every hospital to treat every patient who shows up. In that way the healthcare industry would make money from the people who voluntarily pay while treating those who cannot pay. Why won’t that work?

The first flaw is the government ordering doctors to work for nothing. Obviously, doctors would go back to barbering before they worked for people who can’t pay. Basically, it comes down to which group the government can force to do the government’s bidding. The fact is this: Socialist scum in government must tell people what to do in order to govern. They know they can’t tell doctors because very soon there would be no competent doctors; so they force everybody to work for nothing; i.e., tax their labors and give it away.

The scam is that everybody is supposed to be happy with socialized medicine, or universal healthcare, or whatever it is called. Doctors and parasites in the healthcare industry get paid by the forced labors of others; everybody gets treatment, and the scum in government get rich while managing to look like benefactors. Show me a priesthood in all of history that was any different.

atlasshrugged;6200725

Healthcare is not a right. It is an entitlement. The simple fact that we can't provide it for everyone disqualifies it as a right.

To atlasshrugged: That’s circular logic. You’re saying healthcare is an entitlement now, but will be a Right at some future date.

And again you say “we” as though you speak for me and everybody else.

atlasshrugged;6200725

I hope that makes my opinion clear

To atlasshrugged: It was always clear.

atlasshrugged;6200725

because I agree with you.

To atlasshrugged: I cannot see it.

atlasshrugged;6200725

I volunteer at a free clinic and see dozens of people with iPhones. It bugs me, to say the least.

To atlasshrugged: I cannot figure out why you are bugged! Were you forced to pay for those iPhones?

Instead of volunteering —— pay for the healthcare needs of just one person besides yourself. If one is not enough for you earn a great deal of money and give it away voluntarily.

 

[dblack]

Healthcare is not a right. It is an entitlement. The simple fact that we can't provide it for everyone disqualifies it as a right. ...

Lots of things disqualify it as a right. Even more fundamentally, a 'right' (in the context of government protected 'rights') isn't something the state can "give" you. It's something you have to begin with and task government with protecting.

 

[atlasshrugged]

atlasshrugged;6200725

I don't think I made myself clear.

To atlasshrugged: I think you’re as clear as a bell.

atlasshrugged;6200725

Concerning healthcare as a right: how can we say something is a right

To atlasshrugged: Let’s first dispense with Victoria’s pronoun:



Socialists and the parasite class are the only ones who say healthcare is a Right.



To atlasshrugged: You can give anything you want to give. Just do not tell me, or anyone else, what they have to give.



To atlasshrugged: Every disease is treatable. The healthcare industry is built upon treatment.



To atlasshrugged: Who is doing the claiming? and who pays the claim?

How about trying this. Instead of forcing everyone to pay for socialized medicine, the government only forces every doctor and every hospital to treat every patient who shows up. In that way the healthcare industry would make money from the people who voluntarily pay while treating those who cannot pay. Why won’t that work?

The first flaw is the government ordering doctors to work for nothing. Obviously, doctors would go back to barbering before they worked for people who can’t pay. Basically, it comes down to which group the government can force to do the government’s bidding. The fact is this: Socialist scum in government must tell people what to do in order to govern. They know they can’t tell doctors because very soon there would be no competent doctors; so they force everybody to work for nothing; i.e., tax their labors and give it away.

The scam is that everybody is supposed to be happy with socialized medicine, or universal healthcare, or whatever it is called. Doctors and parasites in the healthcare industry get paid by the forced labors of others; everybody gets treatment, and the scum in government get rich while managing to look like benefactors. Show me a priesthood in all of history that was any different.



To atlasshrugged: That’s circular logic. You’re saying healthcare is an entitlement now, but will be a Right at some future date.

And again you say “we” as though you speak for me and everybody else.



To atlasshrugged: It was always clear.

atlasshrugged;6200725

because I agree with you.

To atlasshrugged: I cannot see it.

atlasshrugged;6200725

I volunteer at a free clinic and see dozens of people with iPhones. It bugs me, to say the least.

To atlasshrugged: I cannot figure out why you are bugged! Were you forced to pay for those iPhones?

Instead of volunteering —— pay for the healthcare needs of just one person besides yourself. If one is not enough for you earn a great deal of money and give it away voluntarily.

I don't understand why you have me pegged as a socialist. I am against the ACA. I am against paying for someone else's healthcare and being treated like a murderer for not wanting to. Healthcare is not a right. It's a bummer that some people get cancer but I didn't cause the cancer. I am against universal healthcare because its wrong for people to expect something they haven't earned and it will only encourage people to be more entitled.

If a person wants to help someone else financially, who am I to stop them? But I don't want to be forced to be charitable.

Is that clear enough for you?

And for the record, I am bugged when people put iPhones higher on their priority lists than their own lives then expect me to put their well being first. And I only believe that we can gain additional rights if everyone agrees and makes it happen (but healthcare never will become a right because putting someone else's success before our own only breeds unmotivated people).

 

[Flanders]

I don't understand why you have me pegged as a socialist.

To atlasshrugged: These comments:

I agree that both would improve healthcare, but I think they are out of our reach. I feel the same way about healthcare as a human right. I wish that everyone could have good healthcare, but I don't think we, as a country, can afford it.

In other words it would be a Right if it was affordable.

Concerning healthcare as a right: how can we say something is a right if we are not capable of giving it to everyone? If we were able to treat every disease, then if we believed it was a right, we could claim it as such.

Healthcare is not a right. It is an entitlement. The simple fact that we can't provide it for everyone disqualifies it as a right.

To atlasshrugged: Again, you appear to lean towards finding a way to make it a Right even though you recognize it as an entitlement for the time being.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

atlasshrugged

I am against the ACA. I am against paying for someone else's healthcare and being treated like a murderer for not wanting to.

You contradict yourself.

We currently have a "system" where we all have to pay for the healthcare of others, including illegals. It was put in place by a pub (reagan) and guarantees that anyone can get care just by walking into the emergency room.

With some very important exceptions, ACA requires people to pay for their own health care insurance. It does not allow illegals to buy the less expense health care insurance that it guarantees to citizens.

rw's are against having to pay for their own health care insurance because, apparently, they would rather get everything for free.

Yeah, I know, they say that's not what they want but it is certainly how they behave.

Make up your mind. Are you against people paying for their own (ACA) health care insurance? Or are you in favor of the current SOCIALIST system we have now? (Which, btw, doesn't work.)

 

[hjmick]

Theodoric of York...

 

[atlasshrugged]

Healthcare is not a right. It is an entitlement. The simple fact that we can't provide it for everyone disqualifies it as a right. ...

Lots of things disqualify it as a right. Even more fundamentally, a 'right' (in the context of government protected 'rights') isn't something the state can "give" you. It's something you have to begin with and task government with protecting.

Agreed. You put it very well. A true right is inherent. The government isn't capable of providing or protecting any "right" to healthcare. The right to healthcare is as crazy as the right to not ge sick or not be poor. They simply are not possible.

 

[atlasshrugged]

atlasshrugged

I am against the ACA. I am against paying for someone else's healthcare and being treated like a murderer for not wanting to.

You contradict yourself.

We currently have a "system" where we all have to pay for the healthcare of others, including illegals. It was put in place by a pub (reagan) and guarantees that anyone can get care just by walking into the emergency room.

With some very important exceptions, ACA requires people to pay for their own health care insurance. It does not allow illegals to buy the less expense health care insurance that it guarantees to citizens.

rw's are against having to pay for their own health care insurance because, apparently, they would rather get everything for free.

Yeah, I know, they say that's not what they want but it is certainly how they behave.

Make up your mind. Are you against people paying for their own (ACA) health care insurance? Or are you in favor of the current SOCIALIST system we have now? (Which, btw, doesn't work.)

I never said I supported the current healthcare programs, nor did I say that I am against mandated health insurance. I am against medicaid being utilized by those who never intend to pay anything back. I am against Medicare covering every little cost and whim of those who didn't pay much into the program.

Concerning the ACA, I wouldn't be against being forced to buy health insurance. If hospitals are forced to treat me in the ER, I should have to have insurance (or we could remove the requirement for hospitals to treat the uninsured). I'm against the ACA because it expands Medicaid to $133 of the poverty line. It increases the number of people covered by government healthcare and, in turn, increases the burden on taxpayers.

 

[atlasshrugged]

BTW Luddly, are you really arguing that Obama's plan is less socialized than the current plan? The current plan only covers ER costs of uninsured while the ACA takes a huge chunk of the uninsured, puts them on Medicaid, and covers nearly all healthcare costs.

It's pretty dense to claim that Rightwingers want everything for free. We are usually content with the government staying out of our business and letting us shoot our guns.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We are usually content with the government staying out of our business and letting us shoot our guns.

Yeah and that's a little bit of a problem. If you don't want to live in a country that has a government, why don't you friggin LEAVE. But no, you just want the rest of us to kowtow to your ridiculous ideas of what Ayn Rand did NOT write. You know, like the fact that she was a nazi sympathizer who got a Social Security check and was pro-abortion. You want to pretend she was a lot of things she was not.

Shoot your guns all you want. Just stop shooting at other people. Literally and figuratively.

Thanks for the laugh but do you froot loops ever THINK before you type?

 

[dblack]

We are usually content with the government staying out of our business and letting us shoot our guns.

Yeah and that's a little bit of a problem. If you don't want to live in a country that has a government, why don't you friggin LEAVE.

Can you really not conceive of government doing its job without meddling in our business?

 

[atlasshrugged]

We are usually content with the government staying out of our business and letting us shoot our guns.

Yeah and that's a little bit of a problem. If you don't want to live in a country that has a government, why don't you friggin LEAVE. But no, you just want the rest of us to kowtow to your ridiculous ideas of what Ayn Rand did NOT write. You know, like the fact that she was a nazi sympathizer who got a Social Security check and was pro-abortion. You want to pretend she was a lot of things she was not.

Shoot your guns all you want. Just stop shooting at other people. Literally and figuratively.

Thanks for the laugh but do you froot loops ever THINK before you type?

If you want to live in a country with universal healthcare, Canada is a short drive away. Or maybe Europe, I hear the fall is nice there.

As for Rand, I don't have to agree with everything she has ever said. I simply respect her value of productivity and creation of a product. Something you Dems don't care much for.

 

[Political Junky]

stopping HIV/AIDS tainted blood from donors in Africa from reaching patients in American hospitals

wtf?

Exactly, WTF?