Barack Obama to dilute 'Buy American' plan after Europe threatens US with trade war

[mightypeon]

Given the amount of manufactured goods produced, my personal estimate would be that the EU would likely "win" a trade war against the US at the moment (How do you win a tradewar anyway, making the other side go bankrupt before you do? Sounds like lots of risks for little gain). Especially if Kanada and Mexico are on the EUs side, a much larger domestic market, backed by cheaper ways of reaching "neutral" markets is a big advantadge. The US is a bit less reliant on resource imports, but the main resource exporters are propably unlikely to pick a clear side to support in this tradewar.

As the EU will also issue "bailoutlike" things (face it, the "rich" want it and they will get what they want), I envision that maybe both the US and the EU programms will have a "buy western" as opposed to "buy American" or "buy European" clause.
Nicely preventing a trade war with a serious oppoent and screwing third parties that had nothing to do with the Crisis at hand.

That would of course exclude the 3rd world, but which politician cares about them anyway. It not as if Brasilia is a big opponent in a trade war. China and Russia can propably be convinced of playing nice in other ways.


I just think that trade wars with the EUs are a serious undertaking, and nothing the US should do in its current state.

 

[WillowTree]

He BACKED DOWN he CAPITULATED without a fight? Unions lose Europe wins.. Say it ain't so JOe.

 

[editec]

Given the amount of manufactured goods produced, my personal estimate would be that the EU would likely "win" a trade war against the US at the moment

No a fucking chance. Europe lacks the natural resources.

But, as it relates to trade with Europe, I doubt we'd have to make too many adjustments to find a fiar trade relationship with the EU.

European workers actually make more than American workers when you look at things like health care and retirement and so forth.

(How do you win a tradewar anyway, making the other side go bankrupt before you do? Sounds like lots of risks for little gain).

Nobody is really calling for a trade war...some of us are calling for sane trade polices, though.


Especially if Kanada and Mexico are on the EUs side, a much larger domestic market, backed by cheaper ways of reaching "neutral" markets is a big advantadge. The US is a bit less reliant on resource imports, but the main resource exporters are propably unlikely to pick a clear side to support in this tradewar.

As the EU will also issue "bailoutlike" things (face it, the "rich" want it and they will get what they want), I envision that maybe both the US and the EU programms will have a "buy western" as opposed to "buy American" or "buy European" clause.

Nicely preventing a trade war with a serious oppoent and screwing third parties that had nothing to do with the Crisis at hand.

Probably not a bad idea since Europe's quality of life is basically on a par with ours.

That would of course exclude the 3rd world, but which politician cares about them anyway. It not as if Brasilia is a big opponent in a trade war. China and Russia can propably be convinced of playing nice in other ways.

Now you're thinking.

Each foreign economy needs to be evaluated to determine what the balance of trade with the USA will look like.

There are certainly SOME THINGS that other nation have such a natural advantage on (see Adam Smith) that imposing tariffs on those imports is simply stupid.

But opening up our markets to third world nations which treat their workers like crap, only puts pressure on this nation to ALSO treat US like crap.

That's just fucking stupid IF you love Americans.

Of course if you see americans as sheep to be fleeced ou dslaughtered (as so many American now do) then you can understand their POV, too.

I just think that trade wars with the EUs are a serious undertaking, and nothing the US should do in its current state.

I think you're probably right.

WE need to look at those nation and evaluate how their tax laws, and their treatment of workers, and their environmental laws effect their businesses.

What I am proposing is NOT easy because it requires that we THINK before opening up out markets to imports.

 

[Annie]

The US throwing up tariffs is a bad idea. However, insisting on fair trade by other countries is not. If countries want 'one way trade', those should be boycotted or reduced to as little as possible. Insist others treat our goods the way we do theirs.

 

[indago]

The US throwing up tariffs is a bad idea. However, insisting on fair trade by other countries is not. If countries want 'one way trade', those should be boycotted or reduced to as little as possible. Insist others treat our goods the way we do theirs.

So, after fifteen years of free trade agreements and our economy regressing, how many more years do you propose we continue to "Insist others treat our goods the way we do theirs"?

Proponents of free trade are proponents of RACE TO THE BOTTOM and PERPETUAL DEBT

 

[editec]

The US throwing up tariffs is a bad idea. However, insisting on fair trade by other countries is not.

Tariffs are the mechanism one employs to insure fair trade, Annie.

Nobody I know who is bitching about FREE TRADE wants to just end all imports.

Of course that is what we are accused of because its much easier to argue with a straw man invention than with a realistic suggestion.

If countries want 'one way trade', those should be boycotted or reduced to as little as possible. Insist others treat our goods the way we do theirs.

Boycotts don't work.

 

[Annie]

The US throwing up tariffs is a bad idea. However, insisting on fair trade by other countries is not.

Tariffs are the mechanism one employs to insure fair trade, Annie.

Nobody I know who is bitching about FREE TRADE wants to just end all imports.

Of course that is what we are accused of because its much easier to argue with a straw man invention than with a realistic suggestion.

If countries want 'one way trade', those should be boycotted or reduced to as little as possible. Insist others treat our goods the way we do theirs.

Boycotts don't work.

Tariffs don't work, never have, well except in the case of fledgling industries. Not the problem we have. We've always tried to persuade closed markets to open up by example. Times now say, 'trade or not' two way street, no exceptions.

 

[mash107]

A tariff isn't a wall, it's just an adjustment. And besides, the Congress was granted the power to lay a tax on imported goods. It's a good way to help pay down the debt.

It quacks, it's a duck. The EU are just as bad. Protectionism is not the way to go.

Then you believe that massive unemployment and a regressive economy in this country IS the way to go.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States" — Constitution of the United States - Article 1 § 8

Do you see anywhere in the Constitution that says that our government is to provide for the general welfare of foreign countries?

Free trade helps Americans out significantly. Imagine if the poor had to pay multitude times the price for groceries since you're limiting their options. They'd be better off? Bullshit. Free trade helps out everyone. Imagine if your state, hell even your county or city, were to put up trade walls-- how more miserable would your life be if you had to pay 5-10x more for everything you had to buy to survive?

Unemployment happens because taxes and inflation are too high. Inflation discourages savings which limits capital investment and banks don't have enough capital to lend to create jobs. Taxes just do this in a more direct manner.

 

[editec]

Tariffs don't work, never have, well except in the case of fledgling industries. Not the problem we have. We've always tried to persuade closed markets to open up by example. Times now say, 'trade or not' two way street, no exceptions.

You simply do not know your nation's economic history, Annie.

What's more you have no idea why we opened most of the market we opened. (And there's really no reason you would, either. It isn't like they made a big deal on the news as these deals were cut. My point here is that we Americans have not been getting the REAL NEWS that mattered, not that you are dumb)

Now what we Americans do not know is basically killing us economically, so may I suggest a book which might help you to really understand this issue, or would you think me arrogant for making such a suggestion?

Your call, all I can do is lead you to water, I cannot make you drink.

 

[Annie]

Tariffs don't work, never have, well except in the case of fledgling industries. Not the problem we have. We've always tried to persuade closed markets to open up by example. Times now say, 'trade or not' two way street, no exceptions.

You simply do not know your nation's economic history, Annie.

What's more you have no idea why we opened most of the market we opened. (And there's really no reason you would, either. It isn't like they made a big deal on the news as these deals were cut. My point here is that we Americans have not been getting the REAL NEWS that mattered, not that you are dumb)

Now what we Americans do not know is basically killing us economically, so may I suggest a book which might help you to really understand this issue, or would you think me arrogant for making such a suggestion?

Your call, all I can do is lead you to water, I cannot make you drink.

I'm always open to reading, post the book as others may also want to know.

I'm quite aware of Admiral Perry and forcing open trade. That's not what I'm referring to though.

 

[Shogun]

yea.. we see the free trade "help" all over the place. If you silly bastards were stripped of your non sequiter bullshit all we'd here would be chirping crickets. Meanwhile, Americans continue to become unemployed because some ignorant bastard, and foreigners looking to PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS, keep repeating the same failing mantras.

 

[Diuretic]

It quacks, it's a duck. The EU are just as bad. Protectionism is not the way to go.

Then you believe that massive unemployment and a regressive economy in this country IS the way to go.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States" — Constitution of the United States - Article 1 § 8

Do you see anywhere in the Constitution that says that our government is to provide for the general welfare of foreign countries?

The last point first. If you're pissed off about American jobs going offshore I don't blame you. I'm pissed off about Australian jobs going offshore. I blame corporations for that. But I'm not sure if that has anything to do with free trade. That seems to me to be corporations taking advantage of cheaper labour in developing nations. Of itself that's a topic worth discussion. For example, the domestic consumer supposedly benefits by this. Of course for the people that formerly produced the goods being bought by the domestic consumers it's tough, they lose their jobs, but I suppose cheap labour for some developing countries is a competetive advantage, maybe the only one they have. So it may benefit the developing country, at least in the short term. But that's not a decision of government, it's a decision of a corporation that wants to increase its profits by using cheap offshore labour.

If low skilled jobs are going offshore then governments need to look at industrial policy and see how they can address the domestic problems caused by the loss of those jobs. Governments have to develop policy in this area because corporations won't. That's a legitimate task for government.

One of the responses might be to upskill a nation's workforce and to understand that until developing countries have equivalent labour conditions of developed countries that trying to stop the offshoring is nigh impossible.

Protectionism will only harm the intenational economy and all those who are part of it. Trade wars lead to real wars. Closing off our economies from trading partners will hurt everyone.

 

[Gun Clingin']

yea.. we see the free trade "help" all over the place. If you silly bastards were stripped of your non sequiter bullshit all we'd here would be chirping crickets. Meanwhile, Americans continue to become unemployed because some ignorant bastard, and foreigners looking to PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS, keep repeating the same failing mantras.

I see you like to bitch and moan alot. So what's your solution, genius with an anger problem?

 

[Shogun]

yea.. we see the free trade "help" all over the place. If you silly bastards were stripped of your non sequiter bullshit all we'd here would be chirping crickets. Meanwhile, Americans continue to become unemployed because some ignorant bastard, and foreigners looking to PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS, keep repeating the same failing mantras.

I see you like to bitch and moan alot. So what's your solution, genius with an anger problem?

First, you silly bastards could stop ignoring the trade deficit while making excuses for other nations that we don't trade with evenly. Free trade up to comparative trade exchanges and tariff trade above our lopsided loss. Second, actively support a tax break to reimburse a percentage of reciepts from American products. Third, let the AMERICAN President endorse a, *shocker*, BUY AMERICAN campaign.

Stick around, bitch. I'm quick to provide great ideas.

 

[Gun Clingin']

First, you silly bastards could stop ignoring the trade deficit while making excuses for other nations that we don't trade with evenly. Free trade up to comparative trade exchanges and tariff trade above our lopsided loss. Second, actively support a tax break to reimburse a percentage of reciepts from American products. Third, let the AMERICAN President endorse a, *shocker*, BUY AMERICAN campaign.

Stick around, bitch. I'm quick to provide great ideas.

I know my father, so I'm not a "silly bastard". Don't assume everyone is from the same background as you are. Okay bitch?

Second, I actually like some of your ideas there. So now you can calm down and take your pills.