Band Aids, Borders, Burritos & Bejing

[Moonglow]

Just end the Fed. It's the main reason for all of America's woes.

Everything else will work itself out by default.

Like playing King of the Hill..

 

[Natural Citizen]

Please look at #8, where I fund this with bonds. There is strong global demand for fixed income, and that's only going to increase.

I'm not going to hold your hand here.
,

A bond is a IOU.

 

[Mac1958]

Just end the Fed. It's the main reason for all of America's woes.
Everything else will work itself out by default.

Ya wanna walk me through that?
.

Walk you through what. Mac? How the Fed works? Sure. I typed a long winded post a long time ago tha tI keep around whenever someone asks. It's in my documents folder, hold on, I'll go look for it and paste it.

Here you go. Here's how the Fed works. I think I got it about right. I don't think I missed anything.

Here's how it works. The politicians aren't running on the idea of spending less. They instead say vote for me because I'll make sure that the government provides you with more free stuff than my opponent say's he willl. Of course, there's no such as a free lunch, is there? Of course there isn't. In order to provide that supposed free stuff that they ran on, the politicians vote for the country to spend more than its income. This is called deficit spending. To pay for that deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. So, let us learn what a bond is. A bond is an IOU. it's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest. But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. Umkay? These IOU bonds are paid back by you, I, and our decendants through taxation. Therefore when the government issues a bond, it steals prosperity out of the future so that it can spend it today. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest. As we move through this process, the big banks are there taking a cut every step of the way. This is not by chance, which I'll explain. Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve at a profit. How doe the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? I'll tell you how. The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes, bad, bogus, counterfeit, checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has a zero balance because their isn't a single penny in it. They're crerting money. Which is different than ''currency''. I'll get to that later. Of course, when you or I write a check, the money has to be in there. Right? To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply" , they say that '' When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writesacheck, it is creating ''money.' The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then takethat 'currency' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction. You see?

Now. What is a check? A check is also an IOU. When you write a check, you're making a note that says here's my IOU for cash, all you have to do is go to the bank and pick it up. This particular process is very important that you understand, Mr. Spare_change. Pay attention here, please, because we're gonna come back to this later in my long-winded post here to explain how this affects you and I.

So. Before moving on, let's recap what we have thus far. The Treasury issues IOU bonds. The banks then buy those IOU bonds with ''currency.'' The Federal Reserve then writes IOU checks and hanfs them to the banks in exchange for the Treasury's IOU Bonds. Thus 'currency' is created. What's really happening here is that the Federal Reserve and the Treasury are just swapping IOUs using the banks as middle men and, presto, 'currency magically comes into existence. This process repeats over and over and over and over and over again enriching the banks and indebting the public by raising the national debt. The end result is that there is a build-up of bond at the Federal Reserve and 'currency' at the Treasury. This process is where all paper ''currency'' comes from. The Federal Reserve and the government incorrectly call it 'base money' becase they don't know the difference between 'money' and 'currency.' It's corr3ctly called 'base currency' because it is not 'money.' It is 'currency.'

'Money' has to be a store of value and maintain its purchasing power over long periods of time. Similar to when we could walk into a bank and trade a gold note for actual coingn that was backed by something. But the base currency that is piling up as a consequence of the process which I've explained is nothing more than a receipt for a claim check on an IOU bond. So it's really nothing but a supply of numbers. so, then, the Treasury now deposits the newly created 'currency' into the various branches of the government and the politicians I mentioned in the very sentence here who were claiming they were going to give you free sruff say, heythanks for that. Then the government does some deficit spending on public works,s ocial programs, and, of course, your wars, Mr. Spare_change, to include paying weapons manufacturers and contractors along with the soldiers pays. The government employess, contractors, and soldiers then deposit their pay in the banks.

Now. Whe nthey deposit this 'currency' into the bank, they're not actually depositing it into an account to be held safely in trust to them. Instead, you're actuallyloaning the bank your 'currency' and they can do prety much whatever they please with it to include gambling in the stock market, and loaning it out at a profit of course. This is where the process of 'currency' really gets cranking. This is where fractional reserve lending comes into play. Now, what does that mean? It means precisely what it says. It means that the banks reserve only a fraction of your deposit and they loan the rest out. Though, rates vary, I'll use a 10% ratio here to explain the process. If you deposit 100 'dollars' into your account, the bank legally takes 90 'dollars' of it out and loans it out without telling you. The bank must hold 10 'dollars' of your deposit in reserve just in case you want some of it. These reservesare called 'vault cash.' Now, why does your bank account still say that you still have 100 'dollars' if they stole 90 of it? Its' because the bank left IOUs that it created called 'bank credit' in its place. That's why. To reference the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, they say that "Commercial banks create checkbook money whenever they grant a loan, simply by adding new deposit dollars in acconts on their books in exchange for a borrower's IOU." End quote. These are othng but numbers that the banks type into their computers. Andeven though these 'bank credit' IOU numbers are very different from 'base currency' numbers, because they only exist in computers, they ar still 'currency.' So now there is 190 dollars in existence. Created out tof the 100 dolars deposited. You see?

Of course, the reason people take out loans from the bank is to buy something. So the borrower takes the 90 'dollars' that the bank loaned to him from your account and he pays the seller of the item. Then the seller deposites that money into his account and his bank loans out 90% of that 'currency' and leaves 'bank credits' in its place. So now theres' 271 'dollars' in existence fron the original 90. This process repeats and repeats and repeats until it's under a 10% reserve ratio and all backed by 100 'dollars' of 'vault cash." Of course, some rates of deposits are only 3%. Some are 0%. The result is that the expansion of the 'currency' supply by the banks. Of course, 'currency' is not 'money.'

So let us recap the second aspect of the process which I've just explained. When 'currency' is dposited into the banks, the banks get to lend it out and then it gets redeposited and relent over and over and over again creating 'bank credit' all along the way. This is where the vast supply of our 'currency' comes from. In fact around 96% of all 'currency' that is created is created by the banking system.

Now. At first, massive amounts of 'currency' spewing into society mught sound like a fun idea. At least until you remember that theprices of every day goods and services act as asponge on an expanding 'currency' supply. The more 'currency' we have, the more prices will rise. This is where 'inflation' comes from. The true definition of inflation is an expansion of the currency supply. Rising prices are merely the symptom. Our entire 'currency' supply is nothing but a few dollars whipped up in this scam where the Treasury and the Federal Reserve swap glorified IOUs and abunch of nyumers that the banks just type into their computers. That's it. That's our entire currency supply. It's aset of numbers. Some of them printed and mostofthem typed. There is nothing else.

But...we work for soem of that 'currency' supply. True wealth is your time. Which we trade away hour by hour, day by day, week by week, year by year, for numbers that somebody printed on pieces of paper and punched into bank computers. We are what gives the 'currency' its value, soldierboy. Herecomes the bad part...which I shared earlier in the thread viathe Keynesian economics exlanation to your friend...who didn't watch it and pawned off some bunk graph in response. We work hard so that we can save some of that 'currency' so that we can pay the 'tax' collector in the United States known as the IRS. They then turn it over to the Treasury so that the Treasury can pay the principal plus interest on that bond that the Federal Reserve bought with a check which is drawn on an account that has nothing in it.

So. Let us recap the third aspect of this proccess which I've explained becaue this is where the system begins to rob the poor, middle class, and seniors on a massive scale. Much of our taxes are not used on schools, roads, and public services. They're used to pay interest on bonds that the federal reserve bought with a check which was drawn on an account that has nothing in it. Here, the Federal Reserve is committing fraud. Recall that before the establishment of the Federal Reserve, there was no need for personal income tax. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 and in that very same year, the constitution was amended to allow income tax via the 16th amendment. Do you really think that this was just a coincindence? Please. Ask yourself how much income tax you've paid over your lifetime and realize that much of it has been siphoned away by those who own the system. We'll get to them after we learn the mumbo jumbo of the 'debt ceiling' delusion.

The debt ceiling delusion is based on a paradox. Meaning there was interest due on that bond, and there was interest due on ever yone of those loansthat the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence. Let'sask a question. If you borrow the very firstdollar in existence and you promiseto bay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest? The answer is that you have to borrow that dollar into existence and promise to pay it back with interest as well. So, now there are 2 dollars in existence, but you now owe 4. And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. It keeps happening over and over and over again. The result is that there isnever enough 'currency' to pay the debt. There is always more debt in the system than there is 'currency' in existence to pay the debt. Therefore the entire system is impossible. It isd finite. It will come to an endone dy. Right now the dollar is 98% down from 1913. 98 %. We're almost there, Rambo, and you want to go create more debt. Are ya plum stupid? Whatwould happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending? Are the payments on those Treasury bonds goingto stop? What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt? Are your house and carpayments going to stop? No. They're niot. There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop. If we stop borrowing, then no new 'currency' is created to replce the 'currency' that we used to make those payments. Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt. BUT...the debt also extinguishes the 'currency.' When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other. If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire 'currency' supply vanishes. So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weightof those payments.

People always talk about balancing the budget, bringing down the debt, and living within our means. But they don't understand that this is deflationary. It is impossible to do under ur current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy. This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is not only ridiculous, it's delusional. The system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue. And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finallty collapses under its own weight. In other words, they don;t want it to collapse under their watch. Thefounding fathers of the United States knew the dangers of central banking and they fought to free themselves from this very thing. The Revolutionary War started out as a tax revolt. Bu now we must pay tax just to have a monetary system. Having just suffered through the hyper-inflation of the continental dollar, which was printed into oblivion to fund the Revolutionary War, they understood the dangers of a debt based monetary system. So to protect future generations from institutional theft and ut of control government, they wrote in the constitution thatonly gold and silver can be 'money' for the simple fact that you can't print it. Our current system is not only unconstitutional, but it robs us of the liberty and prosperity that our forefathers foght and died for. And we're all feeling the effects of ignoring the constitution right now. By forcing more currency into circulation our purchasing power is diluted. Inflation is a slow, incidious, stealth, tax that is simply the result of thisdebt based monetary system.

This system empowers those who create the currency and receive it first because they get to spend it into circulation before it has an effect on the economy. They're stealing purchasing power from the poor, middle class, and seniors, and transferring it to the banks and the government every hour of every day of every week of every year. because of this false monetary system. And the people at the top know it. To quote the Federl Reserve itself, '' The decrease in purchasing power incurred by holders of money due to inflation imparts gains to the issuers of money." This is a fraud. It is a pyramid scheme. It is a ponzi scheme. It is a scam. Our entire monetary policy is nothing more than a form of legalized theft.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A shareof stocjk represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. Fr reference, you mau check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and aquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buy sthem with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex and very few understand it. And that's okay. It's why people whodo understand it take the time to explain it. Our system is Keynesian. And to quote Keynes, himself, ''By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft." Presented correctly, however, anyone can understand the system regardless of the complexity of it.

So. On a final note, let us recap the entire context of this communication.

Step1: The government creates glorified IOU via Treasury Bonds. These bonds increase our national debt and put the public on the hook to pay it back.

Step2: IOU are swapped to create 'currency.' The Treasury sells the bonds to the banks. The banks then turn around and sell our national debt at a profit to the Federal Reserve, which they likely own. Again, the share holders receive annually a 6% dividend. From the Fed's own web page. the Federal Reserve then opens its checkbook which is from an account without a penny in it and buys those IOU with their own IOW in the form of the check from an account with 0 balance.They give those checksto the banks and 'currncy' is created out of thin air. Then the whole process repeats over and over and over again. This results in a build-up of bonds at the Federal Reserve and a build-up of currency at the Treasury which is really just a supply of numbers. The Treasury then deposites the numbers into the various branches of the government and the nwe get to step 3.

Step 3: The government spends the numbers on promises, public works, social programs, and yes, Mr. Spare_change...your wars. Your unconstitutional, undeclared, imperialst military occupation all over the world. Then government employees, soldiers, military contractors, weapons manufacturers, and everybody else deposit their pay into the banks. Then we get to step 4.

Step 4: The banks multiply the numbers by magically creaing more IOU through fracional reserve lending where they steal a portion of everyone's deposit and lend it out. That 'currency' gets redeposited and then a portion is stolen again. And the process repeats over andover and over again, magnifying the currency supply exponentially. Then we the people work for some of those numbers. Which brings us to step 5 where our numbers are taxed.

Step 5: We pay tax to the IRS who then turnsout numbers over to theTreasury so the Treasy can pay the principal plus the interest on bondsthat were purchased by the Federal Reserve with a check from nothing. Thn we get to step 6. The debt ceiling delusion.

Step 6: The debt ceiling delusion.The system is designed to requireever-increasing levels of debt and will eventually collapse under its own weight because politicians andpundits always kick the can down the road so it doesn't happen on their watch. And finally, we get to step 7. Secret owners take their cut.

Step 7: The world's largest banks own the Federal Reserve. Those banks make a profit selling our national debt to the Federal Reserve. They make a profit when the Federal Reserve pays them interest on the reserves held at the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve pays them a 6% dividendon their ownership of the Federal Reserve.

This system is fundamentally evil. It funnels wealth from the working population to the government and the banking sector. It is the cause of the artificial booms andbusts of modern economies anditcauses great dispairity of wealth between the rich and the poor, middle clkass, and seniors. The working class. And it is onlypossible because we no longer use real money. We use 'currency.' Worst of all, it is a form of enslavement. Bond is the root word of bondage. Whenever a government issues a bind, i is a promise to make us pay tax in the future.

I'll leave you with a great quote from a letter from George Washington and written to James Madison on the topic. He said, and correctly so, ''No generation has the right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence." By stealing from prosperity from tomorrow so that we can spend it today, we enslave ourselves and future generations.

This system relies in the public being ignorant to its function.

I'm a financial advisor, CFP, ChFC, CLU. I'm neck-deep in this stuff.

Now, please provide a clear and concise answer to my question, remembering that brevity is the soul of wit.
.

 

[Norman]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

You have a problem right off the bat with number one.
The reason so many are here and keep returning time and again after being deported is that we do have a legalize if you are here policy. We don't stop you from being hired. We don't stop you from driving, we don't stop you from voting. We even give away prizes like DACA. All you have to do is not do something illegal enough to be deported.
If you are illegal you can get your children feed if you don't make enough.
You can go to an emergency room and get healthcare.
Your children can go to school and become educated.

If you get deported no problem you just hop back across the border and pickup where you left off. Mexico encourages this because the American dollars that are sent home each payday is one of the mainstays of the Mexican economy.

If you somehow get caught you even get free counsel, you get free transportation to the border, and in some cases you get free food and a free bed while you await that free transportation. Not a bad deal.

Yeah, I understand that, and much of that would be addressed by enforcing labor laws and fixing our guest worker system.

Plus, remember that a key part of this is reducing the attraction to come here in the first place.
.

You are saying we should fix entire countries. When we can't even run our own properly...

Any plan how to do this without costing an obscene amount of money?

Please look at #8, where I fund this with bonds. There is strong global demand for fixed income, and that's only going to increase.

I'm not going to hold your hand here.
,

So your plan is to invest into these countries?

The market is already free and provides these countries with far more investments than the government could. Investing is not going to turn around a country.

 

[Crepitus]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

All hail king Mac!

But seriously, all good ideas with no path to implementation.

Sadly.

 

[Mac1958]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

All hail king Mac!

But seriously, all good ideas with no path to implementation.

Sadly.

Very well, you receive an extra helping of gruel for that.

Yeah, I know. Just a thought exercise, but in my perfect little fantasy world we'd actually start trying to fix what is broken.
.

 

[Mac1958]

It sure would deliciously ironic to see China buying these bonds in such a scenario.

Heh.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

I’m gonna really try hard to keep my cool in this discussion.
Mac, before moving forward please help me understand how you logically rationalize the reward for criminality thing.
I could almost see where you’re coming from if we had been exhausting all effort in preventing illegal immigration but we both know we have done absolutely nothing for decades. Why would you jump straight from taking no action at all to “reward the criminals” to solve the problem? Why wouldn’t you suggest getting aggressive with modifying laws to allow for identifying illegals and streamlining the legal / deportation process? Why not try that first?

Consider this parallel; you show up to your vacation home to find squatters have broke in and have been living in your house, you call the authorities only to find the squatters have rights and you have to follow a lengthy process to evict them from your own home. Is your first thought “let them stay I’ll just forfeit my home to them”? OR, are you gonna fight it out and take a stand against lawmakers for such a bullshit law which allows good people to get fucked over by trespassers?

 

[Maxdeath]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

You have a problem right off the bat with number one.
The reason so many are here and keep returning time and again after being deported is that we do have a legalize if you are here policy. We don't stop you from being hired. We don't stop you from driving, we don't stop you from voting. We even give away prizes like DACA. All you have to do is not do something illegal enough to be deported.
If you are illegal you can get your children feed if you don't make enough.
You can go to an emergency room and get healthcare.
Your children can go to school and become educated.

If you get deported no problem you just hop back across the border and pickup where you left off. Mexico encourages this because the American dollars that are sent home each payday is one of the mainstays of the Mexican economy.

If you somehow get caught you even get free counsel, you get free transportation to the border, and in some cases you get free food and a free bed while you await that free transportation. Not a bad deal.

Yeah, I understand that, and much of that would be addressed by enforcing labor laws and fixing our guest worker system.

Plus, remember that a key part of this is reducing the attraction to come here in the first place.
.

But you are still awarding bad behavior with #1. As much as I believe some of it will be addressed by enforcing labor laws Yada Yada Yada you will still have those that will break the laws because they can profit from doing so. We have all types of laws against robbery, murder and other crimes yet when someone thinks they can profit they go against the law.

The attraction will always be there. You can not tell me that every leader that will ever be elected or placed in office will be more concerned with their people's welfare then they will be with their own. Not to mention that those south of our borders are not the only illegals that we have in the country. We have people from all over the world.

 

[Disir]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

Ok. This is what the US has in Honduras:
Honduras

And El Salvador information is located here:
El Salvador

This is from 2015 AND IT'S AN OPINION PIECE:
The latest neoliberal emissary to descend upon El Salvador is none other than former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, imported to the country in May by the Salvadoran National Association of Private Enterprise (ANEP) to advise the government on the worsening security situation. Following the abandonment last year of a gang truce, the homicide rate has skyrocketed.

One can pretty safely assume that any institution boasting the words “private enterprise” in its title is going to prioritize security for financial investments over security for other things like human beings.

And on this front, Giuliani is well placed to deliver, having fashioned a lucrative name for himself as a globetrotting security expert. The ex-mayor’s marketability stems from his crackdown on New York crime via zero-tolerance policies that cleaned the city up on the surface, but which actually only masked the underlying social discord. As Michael Busch notes at Warscapes, critics of the Giuliani approach contend that such strategies “disproportionately target poor and minority populations, exacerbate inequality, and benefit a minority of private interests.”

According to a Reuters report from San Salvador on the occasion of Giuliani’s visit, ANEP’s guest of honor had publicly opined that the two main Salvadoran gangs “need to be annihilated” in the interest of security.

While such talk certainly does much to enhance Giuliani’s tough-guy image, the choice of vocabulary is nothing short of reckless considering widespread accounts of Salvadoran police brutality. Giving security forces carte blanche to “annihilate” is assuredly an excellent way to ensure civilian collateral damage.
Rudy Giuliani Descends on El Salvador

Here is a list of prior approaches:
Central America’s Violent Northern Triangle

And this is the World Bank info where you can find past/present projects:
El Salvador

Corporations don't go to these countries to raise the standard of living for anyone but themselves. They go for the low wages and to privatize public functions and when they discuss security it is only to continue to protect US interests. There is nothing more exasperating then hearing people talk about raising the standard of living, technology, etc. and then watching the same group of people designate another countries industries like........bamboo growing or countries becoming the garment industry. Low wages and exploitation.

My question is........what will you do differently?

 

[Rustic]

We Americans do love our band aids. If we don't what someone says, we shut 'em down. We don't like abortions, so we try to make 'em illegal. If we want to deal with illegal immigration, we build a wall. If we're afraid of a ragtag group of South Americans headed our way, we send the freakin' military.

Seems to me we've become pretty lazy. Instead of dealing with the underlying issues of major problems, we just slap a band aid on them and walk away, feeling all good about ourselves. Bing! Instant gratification! Yay!

So, as your new King, here is the Five Year Plan: We're going to calm down this immigration shit, we're going to reduce the reasons people are so fucking desperate to escape their shit hole countries in the FIRST fucking place (what an amazing idea!), and we're going to massively reduce our dependence on, and trade deficit with, China, all in the same plan. Here we go!

1. Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below
   
2. Deport those who break the law.
3. Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines
4. Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks
5. Toss out anything resembling NAFTA and prepare the Americas for the below plan
   
6. Create a new GSE (Government-Sponsored Enterprise) to protect American companies in the below plan
7. Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.
   
8. Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Create a new, Americas-based manufacturing, distribution and consumption behemoth that would re-direct our dollars from China to the Americas.

There. That's a start. If you see something wrong, instead of tossing the whole thing out, let's tweak and improve it. The biggest problem is pretty obviously #7. Let's talk about that.

We used to do that here in America. Collaborate. Innovate.
.

Appeasement is never the answer

 

[eagle1462010]

So, as your new King

We already threw out the kings ...........we'd throw your ass out as well.

Legalize everyone who is here today and put them at the end of the line for regular citizenship, with a sinister hidden agenda of making the countries they use to want to escape a much more attractive place to live, see below

Fairy tale and Amnesty causing more to come......Instant Green Cards and actually believe they would stand in any line........Naïve.

Deport those who break the law.

We already do that........and they come back time and time again......and they fill our jails..........Wind bag message from the OP

Strictly enforce all hiring laws with American employers, with heavy fines

Fining those hiring illegals and not doing business by our laws.......Agreed...........

Re-examine and modernize guest worker programs so people are not falling through the cracks

Laws aren't the problem..........enforcement of the laws are the problem....Especially business.........

Have serious "this is your one chance" conversations with South American leaders to aggressively address the drug cartels. And yes, by "aggressively address", that could include partnership with the American military. This is a public health and safety issue that has been ignored & avoided long enough.

Go to War and fight their battles for them again...........No dice.

Partner with Canada and South American countries (those that work with us on #7 above) to issue GSE-backed bonds and invest heavily in infrastructure and low-end to mid-level manufacturing and support facilities up and down the Americas. Invite South American countries to, um, liberate the money they get from the cartels to finance some of this. Get these people good jobs, keep them home with their families, and stabilize the region.

Continue debasing our currency until you need a wheel barrel full of money to buy a sandwich.....no thanks.....


How about a novel idea..............The Federal Reserve lend the Treasury money at 0% like they do the banks and stop raping the American people.............The get the money from the Fed Reserve then lend to the Treasury and get a 5% or so interest payment............nice gig they got going there no don't they

 

[whitehall]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'm a financial advisor, CFP, ChFC, CLU. I'm neck-deep in this stuff.

No. Not really. I doubt you've even been up to your ankles with anything I posted in that long winded screed.

I've yet to meet a financial advisor who has. Respectfully speaking.

Most of em are clueless and know little to nothing about economics and monetary policy.

Heck, you just got done saying you'd pay for your utopia with bonds. lol. Bonds are IOUs. Why do you think we're in 22 trillion dollars worth of debt now, Mac? Hm? Why? And carrying around a 4 cent dollar.

Gosh. Keynesians gonna Keynes.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

I’ve noticed Mac1958 is ducking out on this one...apparently he isn’t getting the responses that he prepared answers for.
It’s the Liberal way; we have a drug trafficking problem, make marijuana legal so cartels can just grown in a home next to you...no trafficking needed. We have a high percentage of Blacks going to prison...let’s decriminalize shit. We have millions of illegals breaking our laws and shitting on our sovereignty, let’s “make them legal”.

Liberal Logic:
“Prevent your liquor store from being robbed ever again by setting the bag full of cash at the door for the thief.”

 

[Mac1958]

I'm a financial advisor, CFP, ChFC, CLU. I'm neck-deep in this stuff.

No. Not really. I doubt you've even been up to your ankles with anything I posted in that long winded screed.

I've yet to meet a financial advisor who has. Respectfully speaking.

Most of em are clueless and know little to nothing about economics and monetary policy.

Heck, you just got done saying you'd pay for your utopia with bonds. lol. Bonds are IOUs. Why do you think we're in 22 trillion dollars worth of debt now, Mac? Hm? Why? And carrying around a 4 cent dollar.

Gosh. Keynesians gonna Keynes.

Holy crap. Okay, got it.
.

 

[Mac1958]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

I’ve noticed Mac1958 is ducking out on this one...apparently he isn’t getting the responses that he prepared answers for.
It’s the Liberal way; we have a drug trafficking problem, make marijuana legal so cartels can just grown in a home next to you...no trafficking needed. We have a high percentage of Blacks going to prison...let’s decriminalize shit. We have millions of illegals breaking our laws and shitting on our sovereignty, let’s “make them legal”.

Liberal Logic:
“Prevent your liquor store from being robbed ever again by setting the bag full of cash at the door for the thief.”

Whatever you'd like. I'm not trying to change minds, I'm far more interested in tactics, thought processes and macro behaviors.

As always, observing the responses on this thread has been very interesting for me. Most have been the standard, shallow, narrow, myopic talk radio talking points.

So, thanks.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

I’ve noticed Mac1958 is ducking out on this one...apparently he isn’t getting the responses that he prepared answers for.
It’s the Liberal way; we have a drug trafficking problem, make marijuana legal so cartels can just grown in a home next to you...no trafficking needed. We have a high percentage of Blacks going to prison...let’s decriminalize shit. We have millions of illegals breaking our laws and shitting on our sovereignty, let’s “make them legal”.

Liberal Logic:
“Prevent your liquor store from being robbed ever again by setting the bag full of cash at the door for the thief.”

Whatever you'd like. I'm not trying to change minds, I'm far more interested in tactics, thought processes and behaviors.

As always, observing the responses on this thread has been very interesting for me. Most have been the standard, shallow, narrow, talk radio talking points.

So, thanks.
.

Help us understand how you reconcile all this...your logic behind it. How do you arrive at “issue illegals a golden ticket” rather than “fix our legislation and get aggressive with apprehending and deporting the criminals”?

 

[Mac1958]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

I’ve noticed Mac1958 is ducking out on this one...apparently he isn’t getting the responses that he prepared answers for.
It’s the Liberal way; we have a drug trafficking problem, make marijuana legal so cartels can just grown in a home next to you...no trafficking needed. We have a high percentage of Blacks going to prison...let’s decriminalize shit. We have millions of illegals breaking our laws and shitting on our sovereignty, let’s “make them legal”.

Liberal Logic:
“Prevent your liquor store from being robbed ever again by setting the bag full of cash at the door for the thief.”

Whatever you'd like. I'm not trying to change minds, I'm far more interested in tactics, thought processes and behaviors.

As always, observing the responses on this thread has been very interesting for me. Most have been the standard, shallow, narrow, talk radio talking points.

So, thanks.
.

Help us understand how you reconcile all this...your logic behind it. How do you arrive at “issue illegals a golden ticket” rather than “fix our legislation and get aggressive with apprehending and deporting the criminals”?

You were so busy losing your mind over one of my eight points that you didn't notice that I do want to enforce legislation and improve laws.

I'm just doing the standard cost/benefit analysis on this. Partisan ideologues probably don't know what that means. All you see is your side.
.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We don't like the murder of the unborn so we try to make abortions illegal and the crazy left calls it a band aid? That's what we do under the Constitution. Maybe the crazy left thinks smashing windows and torching cars is a better method. The President is trying to stop a foreign mob from entering the U.S. and the crazy left calls it a band aid? I wonder what the left thought of Barry Hussein's two billion dollar extortion payment to Iran?

I’ve noticed Mac1958 is ducking out on this one...apparently he isn’t getting the responses that he prepared answers for.
It’s the Liberal way; we have a drug trafficking problem, make marijuana legal so cartels can just grown in a home next to you...no trafficking needed. We have a high percentage of Blacks going to prison...let’s decriminalize shit. We have millions of illegals breaking our laws and shitting on our sovereignty, let’s “make them legal”.

Liberal Logic:
“Prevent your liquor store from being robbed ever again by setting the bag full of cash at the door for the thief.”

Whatever you'd like. I'm not trying to change minds, I'm far more interested in tactics, thought processes and macro behaviors.

As always, observing the responses on this thread has been very interesting for me. Most have been the standard, shallow, narrow, myopic talk radio talking points.

So, thanks.
.

I understand that you have ‘roots’ to Mexico...am I right?
Is there an emotional tie there which drives your bias?
Are you considering the feelings of the illegals whom would have to relocate back to Mexico?