Ban the internal combustion engine

[M14 Shooter]

over 19 billion tons of freight, valued at $13 trillion, was carried over 4.4 trillion ton-miles in the United States in 2002.
Electric vehicles can't do that. Not in 5 years, not in 10, not in 20.

How much eletricity does it take to move an 80,000lb vehicle 700 miles in 14 hours across randomly level ground?

Semi-trailer trucks
The Port of Los Angeles and South Coast Air Quality Management District have demonstrated a short-range heavy-duty all electric truck capable of hauling a fully loaded 40-foot (12 m) cargo container.
​

These are yard jockeys.
I'm asking about an OTR truck - 80,000lbs at highway speeds for 10 hours w/o a recharge.

See, its not just the cost - its the drain on the grid. That power has to be generated somewhere.

I work in the industry and am familiar with the current costs and physical requirements of the vehicles.​

 

[Old Rocks]

At present, not even the DBM batteries are capable of powering the over the road trucks to the required ranges. However, the problem is not the engine, it is that fact that the engine is burning sequestered carbon. Were the engine to be burning bio-generated diesel, it would be using cyclic carbon, carbon that would not increase the amount in the atmosphere.

In fact, given how much engineering that has been done on diesels, efficiency, clean exhaust, I find it amazing that we are not using more diesels for personal vehicles here in the US. The VW Polo, with a three cylinder 75hp diesel gets over 70 mpg. It is about the size of the 1980 VW diesel that I bought in that year, and has nearly double the power.

There is much work being done right now concerning the generation of bio-diesel from algea, or bio-engineered bacteria using material that would otherwise be waste. As the Hubbert Peak starts the price spiral for sequestered carbon, these technologies will become economically feasable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I find it amazing hemp is still illegal when both Henry Ford and Rudolf Diesel built their engines to run on hemp oil

 

[Old Rocks]

Conservatives Frank, Conservatives.

 

[M14 Shooter]

In fact, given how much engineering that has been done on diesels, efficiency, clean exhaust, I find it amazing that we are not using more diesels for personal vehicles here in the US. The VW Polo, with a three cylinder 75hp diesel gets over 70 mpg. It is about the size of the 1980 VW diesel that I bought in that year, and has nearly double the power.

I'm not. People prefer gasoline engines for any number of reasons, so much so tha they are willing to sacrafice some MPG. Further, depending on the price of gas v the price of diesel, the better MPG of the diesel may not counter the higer cost of the fuel.

 

[Old Rocks]

The price of diesel was well below that of gasoline for the first 40 years of my life. It is easier to refine, and costs far less to refine. The price of diesel is where it is at today simply because they can get that price. If the bio-diesel sources get online, you will see the diesel prices dropped to drive the biodiesel producers out of business.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The price of diesel was well below that of gasoline for the first 40 years of my life. It is easier to refine, and costs far less to refine. The price of diesel is where it is at today simply because they can get that price. If the bio-diesel sources get online, you will see the diesel prices dropped to drive the biodiesel producers out of business.

Maybe. The price of diesel is based on demand and the price of oil; the price of bio-diesel will be based on demand and the price of its component parts.

 

[KingsWizardC]

It's called water thermolosis

I read that water at about 2500C, decomposes in H2 and 1/2 O2, also if two volums of H2 burn with one volume of O2 (think at 2500C they will do this) result water.

And how does one get that water to break down into hydrogen and oxygen?

By using more energy than one gets from the energy you'll get from the hydrogen.


Now does that sound like a solution to the ENERGY problem?

An investigation of direct solar-thermal hydrogen and oxygen production from water is described. Nozzle jets and skimmers have been used for separation of the products and suppression of recombination. The dissociation of water vapor and the separation of its products was conducted in plasma-enhanced, non-equilibrium glow discharges.

SUMMARY

In this report we describe the status of our work with a solar water dissociation gas phase reactor:

Solar radiant energy was concentrated by a parabolic mirror to produce high temperatures on a nozzle inside a solar reactor fed with water vapor (steam) at low pressure, to produce hydrogen and oxygen.

* A ceramic dissociator-nozzle was used as the target (absorber) for the concentrated solar-beam image. Water vapor was fed to the hot dissociator-nozzle by a feed-ring. Expansion of the water and its dissociation products into a lower pressure region was employed to provide quenching.
* A conical skimmer was used to separate the dissociated water vapor products, hydrogen and oxygen, from the unconverted water vapor in the expanding dissociator-nozzle jet. The objective is to separate the hydrogen and oxygen products from one another before they recombine.
* The dissociator-nozzle is operated with an electrical glow discharge between the water vapor feed-ring and the nozzle inlet. In this way the steam flow field, where the radiation and convection heat transfer takes place, was populated with free electrons, ions and molecules in the excited state. The radiation absorption capture cross-section for water vapor was altered by the plasma glow discharge.
* The product gas stream (containing hydrogen, oxygen and water) from the dissociator-nozzle’s exhaust jet flow field was operated in a glow discharge. This affects the flow-field between the dissociator-nozzle jet and a conical-skimmer. The expanding jet flow-field downstream of the dissociator-nozzle separates the water decomposition products spatially, enriching the core of the jet flow-field with the heavier oxygen and water, and enriching the periphery of the jet flow-field with the lighter hydrogen. Transverse diffusion of hydrogen appears to be responsible for the separation.
* Progress to date includes:
*

a) Operation of the reactor for over 50 hours "on-sun" at 2600-2900 K nozzle surface temperature without failure of materials.
b) Dissociation of water and separation of hydrogen at 1 to 2 % overall efficiency (solar to hydrogen.)

 

[KingsWizardC]

Hydrogen ramjet and hydrogen jet turbines use a combination of internal gasoline combustion to create enough to heat to combust hydrogen. Once the hydrogen is burning in the presence of excess oxygen (this already exist) and attains certain temperatures water could be misted into the combustion chamber and instantly separate into gas and combust itself. This technology could be used for air and space travel greatly lowering the energetic and economical cost of those two endeavors.

Between solar, chemical, electrolosis, thermolosis, and nuclear reactors there are more than enough ways to harvest hydrogen / generate energy for water combustion.

(1) Al + 3 H2O + NaOH → NaAl(OH)4 + 1.5 H2
(2) NaAl(OH)4 → NaOH + Al(OH)3

Overall:

Al + 3 H2O → Al(OH)3 + 1.5 H2

In this process, aluminium functions as a compact hydrogen storage material because 1 kg of aluminum can produce up to 0.111 kg of hydrogen (or 11.1%) from water. When employed in a fuel cell, that hydrogen can also produce electricity, recovering half of the water previously consumed.

High-temperature electrolysis (also HTE or steam electrolysis) is a method currently being investigated for the production of hydrogen from water with oxygen as a by-product. Other research includes thermolysis on defective carbon substrates, thus making hydrogen production possible at temperatures just under 1000°C25

The iron oxide cycle is a series of thermochemical processes used to produce hydrogen. The iron oxide cycle consists of two chemical reactions whose net reactant is water and whose net products are hydrogen and oxygen. All other chemicals are recycled. The iron oxide process requires an efficient source of heat.

The sulfur-iodine cycle (S-I cycle) is a series of thermochemical processes used to produce hydrogen. The S-I cycle consists of three chemical reactions whose net reactant is water and whose net products are hydrogen and oxygen. All other chemicals are recycled. The S-I process requires an efficient source of heat.

More than 352 thermochemical cycles have been described for water splitting or thermolysis.2627, These cycles promise to produce hydrogen and oxygen from water and heat without using electricity.


Nuclear technology presents itself as a very long term solution, we need a transitory solution.

One side benefit of a nuclear reactor that produces both electricity and hydrogen is that it can shift production between the two. For instance, the plant might produce electricity during the day and hydrogen at night, matching its electrical generation profile to the daily variation in demand. If the hydrogen can be produced economically, this scheme would compete favorably with existing grid energy storage schemes. What is more, there is sufficient hydrogen demand in the United States that all daily peak generation could be handled by such plants. However, Generation IV reactors are not expected until 2030 and it is uncertain if they can compete by then in safety and supply with the distributed generation concept.

 

[boedicca]

Please sign this petition on ipetitions

Call for legislation to enforce a 5 - 10 year rollover to make it completely illegal to operate and/or sell an internal combustion engine.

Everyday people feeling they have no option pay good money to support the pollution of our air and poisoning of our seas. We must take away this choice from all people to ensure our health. After a state passes an internal combustion ban rollover plan electric car companies and transportation developers will be invited to the area and taxes will be increased for fuel and normal car sales until it is made illegal. These tax funds may support the development of low emission public transportation.

Fuck off.

 

[KingsWizardC]

over 19 billion tons of freight, valued at $13 trillion, was carried over 4.4 trillion ton-miles in the United States in 2002.
Electric vehicles can't do that. Not in 5 years, not in 10, not in 20.

How much eletricity does it take to move an 80,000lb vehicle 700 miles in 14 hours across randomly level ground?

How much of those 19 billion tons is gasoline?
Spending fuel to transport fuel, that's conservative ingenuity right there.

Fuel cells for freight, electric cars for commuters, Hydrogen for air/space.

Lets call for legislation to begin the rollover now.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How much of those 19 billion tons is gasoline?

Very little. Most travels by pipeline. Only fuels in transit to a filling station goes by truck.

Spending fuel to transport fuel, that's conservative ingenuity right there.

We expend electricity to move electricity - that's liberal ignorance right there.

Lets call for legislation to begin the rollover now.

If you idea was so great, there's be a sustainable demand in the market for it.
Apparently, its not so great.

 

[KingsWizardC]

How much of those 19 billion tons is gasoline?

Very little. Most travels by pipeline. Only fuels in transit to a filling station goes by truck.

Spending fuel to transport fuel, that's conservative ingenuity right there.

We expend electricity to move electricity - that's liberal ignorance right there.

Lets call for legislation to begin the rollover now.

If you idea was so great, there's be a sustainable demand in the market for it.
Apparently, its not so great.

No demmand? Is that why the price of corn skyrocketed when biodiesel became available?

 

[Old Rocks]

Corn is used for ethanol. Most bio-diesel is from vegatable oil such as rape seed. But most vetable oil is also a food source. There is a real moral problem of using food for fuel. There are processes that have been tested already using algea to create diesel fuel from waste products. That is the way we need to go.

 

[daveman]

How much eletricity does it take to move an 80,000lb vehicle 700 miles in 14 hours across randomly level ground?

Semi-trailer trucks
The Port of Los Angeles and South Coast Air Quality Management District have demonstrated a short-range heavy-duty all electric truck capable of hauling a fully loaded 40-foot (12 m) cargo container.
​

These are yard jockeys.
I'm asking about an OTR truck - 80,000lbs at highway speeds for 10 hours w/o a recharge.

See, its not just the cost - its the drain on the grid. That power has to be generated somewhere.

I work in the industry and am familiar with the current costs and physical requirements of the vehicles.​

I know they're yard jockeys. They're also the state-of-the-art in heavy-hauling electric vehicles.

There's simply nothing that will take the place of a diesel engine for OTR trucks, now or for the foreseeable future.

What electric vehicle proponents usually fail to consider is that electric vehicles don't eliminate pollution...they merely relocate it.​

 

[ScienceRocks]

Semi-trailer trucks
The Port of Los Angeles and South Coast Air Quality Management District have demonstrated a short-range heavy-duty all electric truck capable of hauling a fully loaded 40-foot (12 m) cargo container.
​

These are yard jockeys.
I'm asking about an OTR truck - 80,000lbs at highway speeds for 10 hours w/o a recharge.

See, its not just the cost - its the drain on the grid. That power has to be generated somewhere.

I work in the industry and am familiar with the current costs and physical requirements of the vehicles.​

I know they're yard jockeys. They're also the state-of-the-art in heavy-hauling electric vehicles.

There's simply nothing that will take the place of a diesel engine for OTR trucks, now or for the foreseeable future.

What electric vehicle proponents usually fail to consider is that electric vehicles don't eliminate pollution...they merely relocate it.​

That's why if our goal is to have little to no co2 that we must find away to fix the energy producer, so instead of 80 percent coal. We would need to make it 80 percent nuclear, hyro or some other form of energy...Then we must build a whole new national grid, which can support such a goal...Costing trillions.

Then we must build the electric stations modeled on the gas station more or less. Old rocks shown a car that can be recharged in 6 minutes...So we must main stream that and advance on it intil it is no different in the recharge than our cars today. That's if the long term goal is to limit or have no co2 producing cars, trucks and energy and to have them be able to keep up with our economy.

This will of course take decades and anyone talking about banninig the combustion engine in a few years doesn't understand what they're talking about. It would destroy our economy and hurt hundreds of millions of people...No, we must be slow and get everything on line then in only then can we phase the combustion engine and coal burning electricy out.

It's possible, but it will be very costly and a long road to get there.​

 

[Revere]

The only thing limiting C02 output will guarantee is poverty.

 

[daveman]

These are yard jockeys.
I'm asking about an OTR truck - 80,000lbs at highway speeds for 10 hours w/o a recharge.

See, its not just the cost - its the drain on the grid. That power has to be generated somewhere.

I work in the industry and am familiar with the current costs and physical requirements of the vehicles.

I know they're yard jockeys. They're also the state-of-the-art in heavy-hauling electric vehicles.

There's simply nothing that will take the place of a diesel engine for OTR trucks, now or for the foreseeable future.

What electric vehicle proponents usually fail to consider is that electric vehicles don't eliminate pollution...they merely relocate it.

That's why if our goal is to have little to no co2 that we must find away to fix the energy producer, so instead of 80 percent coal. We would need to make it 80 percent nuclear, hyro or some other form of energy...Then we must build a whole new national grid, which can support such a goal...Costing trillions.

Then we must build the electric stations modeled on the gas station more or less. Old rocks shown a car that can be recharged in 6 minutes...So we must main stream that and advance on it intil it is no different in the recharge than our cars today. That's if the long term goal is to limit or have no co2 producing cars, trucks and energy and to have them be able to keep up with our economy.

This will of course take decades and anyone talking about banninig the combustion engine in a few years doesn't understand what they're talking about. It would destroy our economy and hurt hundreds of millions of people...No, we must be slow and get everything on line then in only then can we phase the combustion engine and coal burning electricy out.

It's possible, but it will be very costly and a long road to get there.

No argument there. But the believers in the Magic Energy want to outlaw fossil fuels before the alternatives are workable.

Stupid and short-sighted.

 

[theHawk]

Please sign this petition on ipetitions

Call for legislation to enforce a 5 - 10 year rollover to make it completely illegal to operate and/or sell an internal combustion engine.

Everyday people feeling they have no option pay good money to support the pollution of our air and poisoning of our seas. We must take away this choice from all people to ensure our health. After a state passes an internal combustion ban rollover plan electric car companies and transportation developers will be invited to the area and taxes will be increased for fuel and normal car sales until it is made illegal. These tax funds may support the development of low emission public transportation.

Go screw yourself, KlanWizard. I'll stick to rotaries and V8s over "low emission public transportation."

Idiot.

 

[Si modo]

Please sign this petition on ipetitions

Call for legislation to enforce a 5 - 10 year rollover to make it completely illegal to operate and/or sell an internal combustion engine.

Everyday people feeling they have no option pay good money to support the pollution of our air and poisoning of our seas. We must take away this choice from all people to ensure our health. After a state passes an internal combustion ban rollover plan electric car companies and transportation developers will be invited to the area and taxes will be increased for fuel and normal car sales until it is made illegal. These tax funds may support the development of low emission public transportation.