Bail out of AIG unconsitutional

If you admit it will only create a larger collapse down the road, the answer is simple. Let the collapse happen now. Let market forces rule. It is not like AIG will collapse and all will be lost. It will hurt, but in the end other companies will step in and pick up the pieces, and even make some money doing it.

But we're in an unprecedented position in history and these dire circumstances call for desperate measures at this point in time. I don't believe in choosing doom and gloom in order to prove an economic theory that there might be more doom and gloom if we don't. It's too late. Right now, I think we need practical solutions to real life problems.
 
But we're in an unprecedented position in history and these dire circumstances call for desperate measures at this point in time. I don't believe in choosing doom and gloom in order to prove an economic theory that there might be more doom and gloom if we don't. It's too late. Right now, I think we need practical solutions to real life problems.


That is the problem, this is not a practical solution. This is nothing more than a stop gap. As we have said it is only delaying the inevitable, and if we go through with it, it will make the collapse when it does come far worse than it would have been if we just let it happen now.

This is nothing more than Politicians playing our problems off on people in the future, It is not a solution at all.

If you believe it is, you are in for a rude awakening down the road.

This is like putting a band aid on a cut in a major artery. It may stop or slow the bleeding a bit, but it is not going to fix the artery, and when the band aid gives way it will just make the damage to the artery even worse.
 
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That is the problem, this is not a practical solution. This is nothing more than a stop gap. As we have said it is only delaying the inevitable, and if we go through with it, it will make the collapse when it does come far worse than it would have been if we just let it happen now.

This is nothing more than Politicians playing our problems off on people in the future, It is not a solution at all.

If you believe it is, you are in for a rude awakening down the road.

I agree with looking at it as a stop gap and not a long term solution.

The voters need to make sure of what happens next and maybe it's a good thing that all this is being brought to the table before the election. All of our futures are at stake and people will really be paying close attention. I don't think it's a coincidence that things are shaking out at this point in time.
 
I agree with looking at it as a stop gap and not a long term solution.

The voters need to make sure of what happens next and maybe it's a good thing that all this is being brought to the table before the election. All of our futures are at stake and people will really be paying close attention. I don't think it's a coincidence that things are shaking out at this point in time.

To bad Washington seems hell bent on making the wrong choice here. In their own interests they are choosing to put off the problem and make it worse.

This is a lot like the run up to the great depression. Government not interested in real answers only short sighted stop gaps. The problem is those stop gaps lead to even bigger problems down the road.

For this first time, I am truly worried about the future, and what this nation will look like for my kids when they grow up.

We have no real leaders anymore.
 
To bad Washington seems hell bent on making the wrong choice here. In their own interests they are choosing to put off the problem and make it worse.

This is a lot like the run up to the great depression. Government not interested in real answers only short sighted stop gaps. The problem is those stop gaps lead to even bigger problems down the road.

For this first time, I am truly worried about the future, and what this nation will look like for my kids when they grow up.

We have no real leaders anymore.

I hear you. I am equally concerned.
 
I hear you. I am equally concerned.
Yes, we should all be concerned. Because if the government only bails out the corporations, without insisting on absolute transparency, there's no reason to believe the corporations won't take the money and give golden parachutes to their CEOs. And with Bush at the helm, can we expect anything reasonable that will actually do anything but help corporate America. :doubt:

Hey, but I'm a liberal, and I've never trusted the government to act in my best interests. I guess after all the years of Cons looking to big government to protect them, they are having a tough time with this.

:eusa_whistle:
 
Cons looking for big government to protect them. LOL thats a good one.

I myself am a conservative who has been screaming all along that my party has lost it's way. Bush is only conservative on the issues I could care less about. When it comes to spending our money he is much more like a liberal than a conservative.
 
I see we're still debating the meaning of the word socialist.

Seeley, when Brian B uses the word socialist, he is correct if one accepts the notion that government control is socialist.

IN this frame of reference it does NOT mean, liberal, or democrat, it merely describes that animal as being of the government.
All of this reminds me of my favorite quote from Thomas Jefferson (also my favorite President) ...

"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

I would say Jefferson was rather prescient. This is quite illustrative of what our founding fathers meant in our Constitution. They were completely against emitting bills of credit (debt money as we have today) and explicitly stated so in the Constitution.

Brian
 
Yes, we should all be concerned. Because if the government only bails out the corporations, without insisting on absolute transparency, there's no reason to believe the corporations won't take the money and give golden parachutes to their CEOs.

I was thinking that too. As much as it's all just a big power grabbing shell game prior to an historic election, what happens when they swipe billions or even trillions of dollars under the table? Didn't Rumsfeld say something about the treasury missing Trillions of dollars on September 10, 2001? Hey, maybe they found it and used it to buy AIG. :lol:
 
I was thinking that too. As much as it's all just a big power grabbing shell game prior to an historic election, what happens when they swipe billions or even trillions of dollars under the table? Didn't Rumsfeld say something about the treasury missing Trillions of dollars on September 10, 2001? Hey, maybe they found it and used it to buy AIG. :lol:

I wish. Truth is we are "buying" AIG with more money we do not have. How are we going to pay for it. By printing more money and further devaluing our money, and adding even further to the root of this problem.
 
I can't explain that. I don't think anyone can. More than likely, that's exactly what will happen...it will create an even larger one down the road.

But what's the alternative and why do you think it is a better choice.

The alternative to all these bailouts? Letting the companies die, is the alternative. We use our strength as a nation, our productivity, our perseverance that our politicians keep reminding us that we have so much of, and we USE it to weather the storm, and pull through the bad times.

We don't use what amounts to a get out of jail free card, and pass this imminent collapse on to our children. How could you live with yourself if your children had to deal with this just so you could keep going on living in a SOMEWHAT safe economy? Our children had nothing to do with this mess. This is OUR mess, and WE should be the ones who deal with the consequences.

What's better about passing the collapse that WE created, on to our children who DIDN'T? If we just let it happen now, get it over with, and pull through it as a nation, we'll be fine.

If we can't at least do THAT, then we really aren't the strongest nation in the world. I'd say that makes us a bunch of pussies.
 
No offense, Charles, but you really don't know what you are talking about so I'm not interested in your opinion on this. Pauli, at least, has a clue.

God I love that you just said that to him. He said something about other companies stepping in. That's exactly what is going to happen. Its called consolidation of power. More power in fewer hands.

But it won't cost them anything, because the republicans only socialize the losses. They privatize the losses. So this socialism works in the gop's favor.

Just like the private contractors in iraq. They don't have losses. The gop broke/spread our military too thin because they even want to privatize that. But blackwater and haloburton don't have losses. No no. They socialize the losses.
 
The alternative to all these bailouts? Letting the companies die, is the alternative. We use our strength as a nation, our productivity, our perseverance that our politicians keep reminding us that we have so much of, and we USE it to weather the storm, and pull through the bad times.

We don't use what amounts to a get out of jail free card, and pass this imminent collapse on to our children. How could you live with yourself if your children had to deal with this just so you could keep going on living in a SOMEWHAT safe economy? Our children had nothing to do with this mess. This is OUR mess, and WE should be the ones who deal with the consequences.

What's better about passing the collapse that WE created, on to our children who DIDN'T? If we just let it happen now, get it over with, and pull through it as a nation, we'll be fine.

If we can't at least do THAT, then we really aren't the strongest nation in the world. I'd say that makes us a bunch of pussies.
I don't think it's that simple, Pauli. I think letting these companies fail would result in a depression that would make the twenties look like a cake walk. I'd rather my kids be healthy now and ready for what the future brings than starving and without health care now.

I'd still like to see the actual plan and know how it is going to work before forming a concrete opinion.
 
The alternative to all these bailouts? Letting the companies die, is the alternative. We use our strength as a nation, our productivity, our perseverance that our politicians keep reminding us that we have so much of, and we USE it to weather the storm, and pull through the bad times.

We don't use what amounts to a get out of jail free card, and pass this imminent collapse on to our children. How could you live with yourself if your children had to deal with this just so you could keep going on living in a SOMEWHAT safe economy? Our children had nothing to do with this mess. This is OUR mess, and WE should be the ones who deal with the consequences.

What's better about passing the collapse that WE created, on to our children who DIDN'T? If we just let it happen now, get it over with, and pull through it as a nation, we'll be fine.

If we can't at least do THAT, then we really aren't the strongest nation in the world. I'd say that makes us a bunch of pussies.

It seems the government socializes industries industries when the cost of privatizing them would be too great.

The cost of iraq would be three times what it is if we didn't have a socialized military.

We would make money on oil if that industry were socialized.

The financial collapse would cost tax payers too much if these banks all collapsed.

The republicans say government is the problem, and they are correct, when they are running the government.

People need social security too.

Medicare too.

Why do you think governments use socialist ideas? Seems to me they can do some things cheaper, which is why they are considering socializing medicine.

And just like you republicans want aig to die, you'll let poor americans die too if they don't have the money to live. This seems to me why we socialize stuff.
 
I don't think it's that simple, Pauli. I think letting these companies fail would result in a depression that would make the twenties look like a cake walk. I'd rather my kids be healthy now and ready for what the future brings than starving and without health care now.

I'd still like to see the actual plan and know how it is going to work before forming a concrete opinion.

You say it would result in a depression, but what do you base that on? I mean, NO ONE knows what would really happen.

I am fully prepared to handle this NOW. I'd rather get it over with, cleanse the excess, and start fresh. It may not even be as bad as the bankers are telling congress. I mean, congress has to be persuaded as always, right? They're not economists, they have no CLUE what may or may not happen. The only ones who have a CLUE, are the world's bankers. They've never exactly had our best interest at heart, have they?

There are many ways to protect yourself. God forbid you had to downgrade your lifestyle for a couple years.

One thing's for sure. I'll be setting myself up to profit from this REGARDLESS how it turns out.
 

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