Back From Iraq... And Suddenly Out On The Streets

[NATO AIR]

I hope this isn't as bad as this story makes it out to be. However, in general, we are not doing near enough for our veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot make the same mistakes with the VA and state services that we did in Vietnam. And this is a failure of all the politicians, Democrats and Republicans, and of many of us who are not making this a big issue (i'm guilty of it as well at times)

http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2005/0208/p02s01-ussc.html

Back from Iraq - and suddenly out on the streets

Social service agencies say the number of homeless vets is rising, in part because of high housing costs and gaps in pay.

By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

NEW YORK – Veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts are now showing up in the nation's homeless shelters.
While the numbers are still small, they're steadily rising, and raising alarms in both the homeless and veterans' communities. The concern is that these returning veterans - some of whom can't find jobs after leaving the military, others of whom are still struggling psychologically with the war - may be just the beginning of an influx of new veterans in need. Currently, there are 150,000 troops in Iraq and 16,000 in Afghanistan. More than 130,000 have already served and returned home.

So far, dozens of them, like Herold Noel, a married father of three, have found themselves sleeping on the streets, on friends' couches, or in their cars within weeks of returning home. Two years ago, Black Veterans for Social Justice (BVSJ) in the borough of Brooklyn, saw only a handful of recent returnees. Now the group is aiding more than 100 Iraq veterans, 30 of whom are homeless.

"It's horrible to put your life on the line and then come back home to nothing, that's what I came home to: nothing. I didn't know where to go or where to turn," says Mr. Noel. "I thought I was alone, but I found out there are a whole lot of other soldiers in the same situation. Now I want people to know what's really going on."

After the Vietnam War, tens of thousands of veterans came home to a hostile culture that offered little gratitude and inadequate services, particularly to deal with the stresses of war. As a result, tens of thousands of Vietnam veterans still struggle with homelessness and drug addiction.

Veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are coming home to a very different America. While the Iraq war remains controversial, there is almost unanimous support for the soldiers overseas. And in the years since Vietnam, more than 250 nonprofit veterans' service organizations have sprouted up, many of them created by people like Peter Cameron, a Vietnam veteran who is determined that what happened to his fellow soldiers will not happen again.

But he and dozens of other veterans' service providers are concerned by the increasing numbers of new veterans ending up on streets and in shelters.

Part of the reason for these new veterans' struggles is that housing costs have skyrocketed at the same time real wages have remained relatively stable, often putting rental prices out of reach. And for many, there is a gap of months, sometimes years, between when military benefits end and veterans benefits begin.

"We are very much committed to helping veterans coming back from this war," says Mr. Cameron, executive director of Vietnam Veterans of California. "But the [Department of Veterans Affairs] already has needs it can't meet and there's a lot of fear out there that programs are going to be cut even further."

Beyond the yellow ribbons

Both the Veterans Administration and private veterans service organizations are already stretched, providing services for veterans of previous conflicts. For instance, while an estimated 500,000 veterans were homeless at some time during 2004, the VA had the resources to tend to only 100,000 of them.

"You can have all of the yellow ribbons on cars that say 'Support Our Troops' that you want, but it's when they take off the uniform and transition back to civilian life that they need support the most," says Linda Boone, executive director of The National Coalition for Homeless Veterans.

After the Vietnam conflict, it was nine to 12 years before veterans began showing up at homeless shelters in large numbers. In part, that's because the trauma they experienced during combat took time to surface, according to one Vietnam veteran who's now a service provider. Doctors refer to the phenomenon as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

A recent study published by the New England Journal of Medicine found that 15 to 17 percent of Iraq vets meet "the screening criteria for major depression, generalized anxiety, or PTSD." Of those, only 23 to 40 percent are seeking help - in part because so many others fear the stigma of having a mental disorder.

Many veterans' service providers say they're surprised to see so many Iraq veterans needing help so soon.

"This kind of inner city, urban guerrilla warfare that these veterans are facing probably accelerates mental-health problems," says Yogin Ricardo Singh, director of the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program at BVSJ. "And then there's the soldier's mentality: Asking for help is like saying, 'I've failed a mission.' It's very hard for them to do."

Beyond PTSD and high housing costs, many veterans also face an income void, as they search for new jobs or wait for their veterans benefits to kick in.

When Mr. Noel was discharged in December of 2003, he and his family had been living in base housing in Georgia. Since they were no longer eligible to live there, they began the search for a new home. But Noel had trouble landing a job and the family moved to New York, hoping for help from a family member. Eventually, they split up: Noel's wife and infant child moved in with his sister-in-law, and his twins were sent to relatives in Florida. Noel slept in his car, on the streets, and on friend's couches.

Last spring he was diagnosed with PTSD, and though he's currently in treatment, his disability claim is still being processed. Unable to keep a job so far, he's had no steady income, although an anonymous donor provided money for him to take an apartment last week. He expects his family to join him soon.

'Nobody understood ... the way I was'

Nicole Goodwin is another vet diagnosed with PTSD who has yet to receive disability benefits. Unable to stay with her mother, she soon found herself walking the streets of New York, with a backpack full of her belongings and her 1-year-old daughter held close.

"When I first got back I just wanted to jump into a job and forget about Iraq, but the culture shock from the military to the civilian world hit me," she says. "I was depressed for months. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. The worst thing wasn't the war, it was coming back, because nobody understood why I was the way I was."

Ms. Goodwin was determined not to sleep on the streets, and so eventually went into the New York City shelter system where, after being shuffled from shelter to shelter, she was told she was ineligible for help. But media attention changed that, and she was able to obtain a rent voucher. With others' generosity, she also found a job. She's now attending college and working with other veterans who are determined to go to Washington with their stories.

"When soldiers get back, they should still be considered military until they can get on their feet," she says. "It's a month-to-month process, trying to actually function again. It's not easy, it takes time."

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm sorry for them, but it sounds as if some expect to come home and be given a job without even looking. There are plenty of jobs available. Whether the pay is great or not might be questioned, but there are jobs. And plus, these guys are used to getting paid little money for lots of work, so what is it they expect? Lastly, they all have college fund money unless they didn't pay into the system and then in that case, there current situation is because of THEIR neglect.

Call me hard hearted, but some of these guys are probably the same guys that did piss poor jobs while in. When I got out after the Persian Gulf War I had tons of help from the Army to help me make the transition.

And what does this mean: "And for many, there is a gap of months, sometimes years, between when military benefits end and veterans benefits begin."

What benefits? Unless you were injured, you have no benefits other than perhaps, again, your college fund money which you can only receive while going to school.

The MSM is looking for hard cases and trying to make something out of nothing. You are always going to have those few veterans that are going to end up on the streets because, most likely, they were on the streets before they joined. If they were truly that worried about "get'n by" they could have re-enlisted and opted for an MOS that would have taken'em out of the danger zone.

 

[CSM]

I hope this isn't as bad as this story makes it out to be. However, in general, we are not doing near enough for our veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot make the same mistakes with the VA and state services that we did in Vietnam. And this is a failure of all the politicians, Democrats and Republicans, and of many of us who are not making this a big issue (i'm guilty of it as well at times)

I do believe this is blown way out of porportion. I am deeply involved with returning units and personnel and I can tell you that the circumstance are not as dire as the article makes them out to be. There are some who are having difficulty, but it is not because help is not available; there are many, many programs available (some MANDATORY) to help the returning soldiers and their families with ALL aspects; including finding jobs and homes.

 

[CSM]

I'm sorry for them, but it sounds as if some expect to come home and be given a job without even looking. There are plenty of jobs available. Whether the pay is great or not might be questioned, but there are jobs. And plus, these guys are used to getting paid little money for lots of work, so what is it they expect? Lastly, they all have college fund money unless they didn't pay into the system and then in that case, there current situation is because of THEIR neglect.

Call me hard hearted, but some of these guys are probably the same guys that did piss poor jobs while in. When I got out after the Persian Gulf War I had tons of help from the Army to help me make the transition.

And what does this mean: "And for many, there is a gap of months, sometimes years, between when military benefits end and veterans benefits begin."

What benefits? Unless you were injured, you have no benefits other than perhaps, again, your college fund money which you can only receive while going to school.

The MSM is looking for hard cases and trying to make something out of nothing. You are always going to have those few veterans that are going to end up on the streets because, most likely, they were on the streets before they joined. If they were truly that worried about "get'n by" they could have re-enlisted and opted for an MOS that would have taken'em out of the danger zone.

I agree completely, especially about the part that some are trying to make something out of nothing. The guy in the article left the Army without even having a job offer to begin with....I suspect any civilian who left their current job without having at least a job offer would encounter some difficulty as well. The fact that the article states "dozens" are experiencing difficulties speaks volumes about what the status REALLY is. Then the article clouds the facts by switching to percentages instead of using real numbers.

 

[NATO AIR]

? for you, these reservists with jobs... what kind of rights do they have in regards to their employers? does it vary state by state?

my mother goes to the VA all the time (she's a wounded veteran) and has been saying lately that it is a whole lot busier with new vets coming in, and that "its starting to get messy" in how people are being treated (not the surgery but getting appointments, getting time with nurses, specialists, etc etc)

i've heard similar from corpsmen in the navy who are on shore duty

i think the system is going to be overburdened in the coming years, but that's one young idiot's opinion only.

 

[CSM]

? for you, these reservists with jobs... what kind of rights do they have in regards to their employers? does it vary state by state?

my mother goes to the VA all the time (she's a wounded veteran) and has been saying lately that it is a whole lot busier with new vets coming in, and that "its starting to get messy" in how people are being treated (not the surgery but getting appointments, getting time with nurses, specialists, etc etc)

i've heard similar from corpsmen in the navy who are on shore duty

i think the system is going to be overburdened in the coming years, but that's one young idiot's opinion only.

There is no question that the VA is probably getting a bit chaotic; it is a rusty old beuraucracy that needs to gear up and get with the program; they really have been rather complacent of late...and its not all due to funding. I am not saying things could not be better; they could be but it is not as bad as some of the media and some of these organizations make it out to be. Don't forget that a lot of these organizations NEED a crisis so they can get more funding, etc.

Reservists have a right to their old job...it is Federal law. there are some cases where an employer has refused to take back a returning reservist, but believe me, the Feds make life VERY difficult for them and once the local media gets involved, that employer usually has a BIG change of heart.

 

[Johnney]

"It's horrible to put your life on the line and then come back home to nothing, that's what I came home to: nothing. I didn't know where to go or where to turn," says Mr. Noel. "I thought I was alone, but I found out there are a whole lot of other soldiers in the same situation. Now I want people to know what's really going on."

know how he feels. not due to the military, but the old x wife. came back from korea with the clothes on my back and a duffle bag. and that was it!

 

[no1tovote4]

Okay, when I got out, just after Persian Gulf War I, they gave me access to a database of jobs that isn't available to those who are not Vets. There are councillors that talk to you before you go, it is part of your outprocessing that you must visit them, they give you addresses and insure that you have a place to actually go.

That this guy didn't listen or take advantage of these things is foolish, that he would attempt to blame the military for his troubles afterward is beyond the pale.

 

[NATO AIR]

There is no question that the VA is probably getting a bit chaotic; it is a rusty old beuraucracy that needs to gear up and get with the program; they really have been rather complacent of late...and its not all due to funding. I am not saying things could not be better; they could be but it is not as bad as some of the media and some of these organizations make it out to be. Don't forget that a lot of these organizations NEED a crisis so they can get more funding, etc.

Reservists have a right to their old job...it is Federal law. there are some cases where an employer has refused to take back a returning reservist, but believe me, the Feds make life VERY difficult for them and once the local media gets involved, that employer usually has a BIG change of heart.

You are quite right about needing a crisis to get more funding, etc etc.

The VA is a mess I don't envy anyone being in charge of, but somehow, someway, it must be reformed and revitilized. Someone like Nancy Reagan would do wonders in an effort like that, someone able to be cuthroat but understanding at the same time. Jobs will be lost, jobs will be gained, places will be shut down, places will open. At this point though, I think they're just spinning around in circles as far as reform and even repair go.

 

[sagegirl]

I was never in the military but I still have an opinion. I think it is alot to expect that a person can just fit back into a "normal life" after being in a war. It is one of the overlooked costs, a human element, of war. One day you are all powerfull and walk the streets in armor with a big gun (probably scared shitless) and witness atrocities that stay with you your whole life, and then its assumed you can return to a previous place and time.
I know the experience has to be put aside so you can get on with your life, but you will remain forever changed by it, for some the burden is too great and the result is they do become disfunctional, unable to take care of themselves, in extreme cases they become a danger to themselves and others.
I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic. I think this speaks to alternative means (embargoes, inspections, negotiations, whatever,) to resolve our differences.

 

[Shattered]

I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic.

Ok.. All troops are pulled, all warfare is ended.. You go on through your happy naive life... Within a few months, suicide bombers strike a major point in YOUR city/state. We have no more troops. You've disbanded them all.

Now what?

 

[no1tovote4]

I was never in the military but I still have an opinion. I think it is alot to expect that a person can just fit back into a "normal life" after being in a war. It is one of the overlooked costs, a human element, of war. One day you are all powerfull and walk the streets in armor with a big gun (probably scared shitless) and witness atrocities that stay with you your whole life, and then its assumed you can return to a previous place and time.
I know the experience has to be put aside so you can get on with your life, but you will remain forever changed by it, for some the burden is too great and the result is they do become disfunctional, unable to take care of themselves, in extreme cases they become a danger to themselves and others.
I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic. I think this speaks to alternative means (embargoes, inspections, negotiations, whatever,) to resolve our differences.

Name one embargo that worked.

Saddam Hussein used the embargo to become rich and that money to influence our "allies" to vote against UN resolutions and to influence them to release the embargo which they had begun to argue for just before the attacks on 9/11 took place.

Cuba is still under Castro, how long has that embargo been going.

We negotiated with North Korea to give them food and money in exchange they were not to persue Nuclear Weapons, NK took the food and fed the scientists in the Nuclear Weapons program and paid for technology with the money we gave them all this under the noses of UN Inspectors whom they kicked out about 2 days before their announcement that they have Nuclear Weapons.

Each of your preferred solutions have been tried and failed every single time. No offense but I prefer a change in pace to more effective military action that can and has been proven to effect actual change.

 

[Hobbit]

I was never in the military but I still have an opinion. I think it is alot to expect that a person can just fit back into a "normal life" after being in a war. It is one of the overlooked costs, a human element, of war. One day you are all powerfull and walk the streets in armor with a big gun (probably scared shitless) and witness atrocities that stay with you your whole life, and then its assumed you can return to a previous place and time.
I know the experience has to be put aside so you can get on with your life, but you will remain forever changed by it, for some the burden is too great and the result is they do become disfunctional, unable to take care of themselves, in extreme cases they become a danger to themselves and others.
I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic. I think this speaks to alternative means (embargoes, inspections, negotiations, whatever,) to resolve our differences.

It was different after WWII. If you were a returning vet, you were pretty much guaranteed a job. Psychologically, it has something to do with fighting the war to its conclusion. The guys in WWII saw solid fighting for months, then it slowly wound down and they got to stick around in their uniforms with their big guns after the fighting. It allowed them to come out of it more slowly. Now and in Vietnam, they can be in a combat zone one day and on a plane home the next. IMO, soldiers rotating out need to be put at a rear lines post for a couple of weeks before coming home, but that's just me.

 

[Gem]

Not to mention the heavy civillian toll that the actions Sagegirl suggested bring with them.

How many Iraqi children died because of the embargo abuses of Saddam Hussien? And Winston Churchill himself said that the British embargo of Germany at the start of WWI had the sole purpose of starving every last man, WOMAN, and CHILD, in Germany into submission...how many times did we negotiate a peace that did not work...negotiate a cease fire that was ignored, ignore terror attacks because we didnt want to go to war...

Sorry, but it seems that the cost of these "solutions" is often much too high in innocent lives to be considered a "kinder" alternative to swift military action.

 

[CSM]

I was never in the military but I still have an opinion. I think it is alot to expect that a person can just fit back into a "normal life" after being in a war. It is one of the overlooked costs, a human element, of war. One day you are all powerfull and walk the streets in armor with a big gun (probably scared shitless) and witness atrocities that stay with you your whole life, and then its assumed you can return to a previous place and time.
I know the experience has to be put aside so you can get on with your life, but you will remain forever changed by it, for some the burden is too great and the result is they do become disfunctional, unable to take care of themselves, in extreme cases they become a danger to themselves and others.
I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic. I think this speaks to alternative means (embargoes, inspections, negotiations, whatever,) to resolve our differences.

I have no wish to engage in another running gun battle with you BUT if you read what has been posted carefully, there are measures and programs available to help returning soldiers. I have been in at least three wars...never did I feel "all powerful" (as you put it) and yes I was scared shitless at times. Yes I have viewed some horrendous sights (not necessarily "atrocities") and no one I have ever had these experiences with expected to return to a previous place and time...wished for it maybe, but we also knew reality.

Essentially you are correct, war changes people forever, just as you would expect any critical event or situation would change any other person and yes some become dysfunctional and in extreme cases become a danger to themselves and others. Any soldier with half a brain prefers alternative means other than war. HOWEVER, sometimes those alternative means fail; when they do, someone pays the price and usually it is the soldier.

Without knowing what the individuals in the article experienced or even what unit they were in, it is impossible to know what could have or should have been done for the person. Where there issues there BEFORE the man went to war? Did he take advantage of the help that was offered prior to his release from the military? Lots of unanswered questions for sure.

 

[sagegirl]

I would prefer to avoid the warfare because this human cost is so tragic.

Ok.. All troops are pulled, all warfare is ended.. You go on through your happy naive life... Within a few months, suicide bombers strike a major point in YOUR city/state. We have no more troops. You've disbanded them all.

Now what?

Whoa.....I didnt say to pull the troops, once you have committed yourself in conflict, you must be committed to win/ accomplish your goal. (my statement referred to avoiding it in the first place if you can). That goal should be clearly laid out at the onset and all efforts should be aimed at that. There was a term mentioned awhile ago in a thread about abandoning the initial goal during a war and replacing it with another, and its consequences.
As far as happy and naive you have no idea. It is much easier to blindly and irresponsibly follow politically and emotionally charged rhetoric than to objectively and intelligently consider alternatives and factual issues. Your opinion here is based on the FEAR campaign that is currently in full force, and when you buy into that you are the victim, of both the political staus quo and the terrorists.
Now what....?????you say. We have to get out of Iraq.....but we will have to allow it to stabilize politically or there will be true civil war. The elections were a big step, next comes self rule and self imposed security. We have to help out with this, training the Iraqi troops and re-establishing the infrastructure. It is going to take lots of money, more lives, and more time. We better get it right .

 

[CSM]

IMO, soldiers rotating out need to be put at a rear lines post for a couple of weeks before coming home, but that's just me.

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what happens. Soldiers do not come straight out of Iraq and then are released on the streets of the Unite States. They are given a "cooling off" period (usually a week in Kuwait and then about two or three weeks Stateside before they are let loose. Those cooling off weeks are spent making sure they are ok, checked medically, physically and mentally among many other things.

 

[no1tovote4]

Whoa.....I didnt say to pull the troops, once you have committed yourself in conflict, you must be committed to win/ accomplish your goal. (my statement referred to avoiding it in the first place if you can). That goal should be clearly laid out at the onset and all efforts should be aimed at that. There was a term mentioned awhile ago in a thread about abandoning the initial goal during a war and replacing it with another, and its consequences.
As far as happy and naive you have no idea. It is much easier to blindly and irresponsibly follow politically and emotionally charged rhetoric than to objectively and intelligently consider alternatives and factual issues. Your opinion here is based on the FEAR campaign that is currently in full force, and when you buy into that you are the victim, of both the political staus quo and the terrorists.
Now what....?????you say. We have to get out of Iraq.....but we will have to allow it to stabilize politically or there will be true civil war. The elections were a big step, next comes self rule and self imposed security. We have to help out with this, training the Iraqi troops and re-establishing the infrastructure. It is going to take lots of money, more lives, and more time. We better get it right .

My opinion is not based on any "FEAR campaign" or other rhetoric of the talking points you fell for.

I clearly presented a case in which every single one of your ideas had been tried and failed, how they failed, and why they still won't work. Yet you still intend to keep on with the same failed tactics.

Embargo didn't work in Iraq, Saddam stole the money he was supposed to use to feed his people and millions died, he used the money to buy influence with our "allies" in order to end the embargo and just months before the 9/11 attack they had begun aguing for just that. At that point the Deulfer report says Saddam would have begun his WMD schedule in earnest and unfettered by the UN whom he had bought with the money to pay for FOOD.

Embargo didn't work in Cuba, and it won't either.

Negotiation didn't work in NK, they simply took our food and money, which they agreed to take in payment for ending their Nuke Weapons program, and used it to feed the scientists and pay for the technology to get Nuclear Weapons all under UN Inspector's noses whom they kicked out one week before announcing that they were now a Nuclear Power.

Every single one of your ideas to "avoid" the war have been tried and failed, we must stop being naive and use a much more effective means of change.

 

[sagegirl]

Name one embargo that worked.

Well I think the restrictions on south african gold helped to bring about the changes that ended aparthied and the considerations after that by the amnesty board (not sure what it was called) did alot to heal deep wounds. Not that near all of the problems faced in africa are solved but this is an example of my position.

 

[no1tovote4]

Well I think the restrictions on south african gold helped to bring about the changes that ended aparthied and the considerations after that by the amnesty board (not sure what it was called) did alot to heal deep wounds. Not that near all of the problems faced in africa are solved but this is an example of my position.

I think what resolved apartheid in S. Africa was the willingness of the Black Majority to begin giving their lives in their cause. It wasn't embargo but Civil War that created the success there.