Babeu: 'Fast and Furious' worse scandal than Watergate

[Skeptik]

actually there is considerable evidence to warrant investigations along those lines. But then attempting to compare this to the fiction you just posted is laughable.

Attempting to compare "this" to the "fiction" I posted is just silly. First, are you going to sit there behind your keyboard and maintain that it is a "fiction" that there was a boom in arms sales due to the gullible gun owners fear that Obama would take their guns away? \

Really?

No, arms sales did increase I didnt question that. It was your dramatization. Are you officially posting a denial that democrats didnt conspire to violate federal firearms laws? Maybe the white house didnt know although they knew? Holder ..Oh that fast and furious

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

 

[paulitician]

Yea the Liberal Press isn't touching this one. So you know it's very bad. I'm sure if a Republican was in there right now,this thing would be headline news 24/7 for CNN,NBC,NPR,and the rest of the Liberal Press. American Citizens and countless other innocent civilians were murdered with these weapons. This is an awful debacle. Someone has to be held accountable. What did Holder and the President know and when did they know it? These are very fair questions. We need answers now.

 

[Full-Auto]

Attempting to compare "this" to the "fiction" I posted is just silly. First, are you going to sit there behind your keyboard and maintain that it is a "fiction" that there was a boom in arms sales due to the gullible gun owners fear that Obama would take their guns away? \

Really?

No, arms sales did increase I didnt question that. It was your dramatization. Are you officially posting a denial that democrats didnt conspire to violate federal firearms laws? Maybe the white house didnt know although they knew? Holder ..Oh that fast and furious

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

The attempt was made at greater control but the cat was out of the bag and failed. What did Obumble mean when he said he had to use back door methods to reign in the second amendment? Why did democrats suddenly announce they knew weapons were going south and even came up with phony numbers to tug the heart strings, well it wasnt a lie we were just trying to deceive you with numbers by not telling the entire story.


The coverups on when they knew tells quite a different story Oh and I love how democrats promote criminals that run guns.

 

[westwall]

Attempting to compare "this" to the "fiction" I posted is just silly. First, are you going to sit there behind your keyboard and maintain that it is a "fiction" that there was a boom in arms sales due to the gullible gun owners fear that Obama would take their guns away? \

Really?

No, arms sales did increase I didnt question that. It was your dramatization. Are you officially posting a denial that democrats didnt conspire to violate federal firearms laws? Maybe the white house didnt know although they knew? Holder ..Oh that fast and furious

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

That was the goal for sure. Just listen to all the rhetoric from Holder, Clinton et al before the program got started. Let's look at what occured, the ATF was ordered to allow these weapons to get in the hands of violent felons (and not just allowed, they were actually provided cash to go buy them in the first place and then move them on) and there was no effort made to track them to a end source. There was no effort at evidence collection or maintaining a chain of custody (very important evidence if one is actually TRYING to prosecute a case).

Instead we are presented with this scenario..."lets get these weapons into the hands of these criminals and then we can track their usage by picking them up at crime scenes".

Please show me what case is actually trying to be prosecuted here? So here's the deal, either the DOJ was just giving guns out because they WANTED people to be killed for whatever reeason, or they wanted the weapons to be used so they could then fabricate a case to subvert the 2nd Amendment. Feel free to choose whichever situation you wish but the fact remains the DOJ is guilty of Accessory to Murder.

Thanks for playing now get your head back into the game...before you lose it.

 

[boedicca]

F&F is far worse than Watergate.

The latter did not have a 200+ body count.

 

[paulitician]

F&F is far worse than Watergate.

The latter did not have a 200+ body count.

Sad but true. And how many fellow Americans were murdered with these weapons? We need accountability and action on this immediately.

 

[Jackson]

Yea the Liberal Press isn't touching this one. So you know it's very bad. I'm sure if a Republican was in there right now,this thing would be headline news 24/7 for CNN,NBC,NPR,and the rest of the Liberal Press. American Citizens and countless other innocent civilians were murdered with these weapons. This is an awful debacle. Someone has to be held accountable. What did Holder and the President know and when did they know it? These are very fair questions. We need answers now.

What I can't understand is that they knew what was happenig and did nothing to stop it. No intervention of any kind! Why?

 

[boedicca]

Attempting to compare "this" to the "fiction" I posted is just silly. First, are you going to sit there behind your keyboard and maintain that it is a "fiction" that there was a boom in arms sales due to the gullible gun owners fear that Obama would take their guns away? \

Really?

No, arms sales did increase I didnt question that. It was your dramatization. Are you officially posting a denial that democrats didnt conspire to violate federal firearms laws? Maybe the white house didnt know although they knew? Holder ..Oh that fast and furious

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

They're trying:

Ranking Member of the House Oversight Committee Elijah Cummings is blaming the Second Amendment and repeating lies about how Mexican drug cartels obtain weapons to carry out lethal operations. The majority of weapons in Mexico come from Russia, Central America and China, not the United States, however, democrats and the Justice Department have been using law abiding gun shop owners as a scape goat, blaming them for the violence in Mexico since early 2009. However, new information obtained by Chairman Darrell Issa, shows is ATF responsible for violence in Mexico and the United States, not the Second Amendment and not law abiding Americans. It seems as though democrats will use this opportunity of gross government failure to push more gun control.

From Cummings opening statement:

No legitimate examination of this issue will be complete without analyzing our nation’s gun laws, which allow tens of thousands of assault weapons to flood into Mexico from the United States every year, including fifty caliber sniper rifles, multiple AK variants, and scores of others. When Mexican President Calderon addressed Congress in May, he pleaded for us to stop fueling a full-scale drug war with military grade assault weapons.


Democrat Rep. Cummings Blaming Second Amendment Ahead of Fast and Furious Hearing - Katie Pavlich


Our laws didn't allow the guns across the border - our Government did that.

 

[Jackson]

(Respectfully snipped)

Our laws didn't allow the guns across the border - our Government did that.

Incredibly disgusting. As an American, I am ashamed.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

 

[boedicca]

200+ body count makes F&F worse than Watergate, bub.

 

[Salt Jones]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

But Nixon and Reagan weren't black.

 

[Full-Auto]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

Yes there is plenty of evidence and retaliation for the whistle blower. Agents not allowed to speak to congress. We didnt know but emails show they did.

Damn follow the story...

 

[Skeptik]

No, arms sales did increase I didnt question that. It was your dramatization. Are you officially posting a denial that democrats didnt conspire to violate federal firearms laws? Maybe the white house didnt know although they knew? Holder ..Oh that fast and furious

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

That was the goal for sure. Just listen to all the rhetoric from Holder, Clinton et al before the program got started. Let's look at what occured, the ATF was ordered to allow these weapons to get in the hands of violent felons (and not just allowed, they were actually provided cash to go buy them in the first place and then move them on) and there was no effort made to track them to a end source. There was no effort at evidence collection or maintaining a chain of custody (very important evidence if one is actually TRYING to prosecute a case).

Instead we are presented with this scenario..."lets get these weapons into the hands of these criminals and then we can track their usage by picking them up at crime scenes".

Please show me what case is actually trying to be prosecuted here? So here's the deal, either the DOJ was just giving guns out because they WANTED people to be killed for whatever reeason, or they wanted the weapons to be used so they could then fabricate a case to subvert the 2nd Amendment. Feel free to choose whichever situation you wish but the fact remains the DOJ is guilty of Accessory to Murder.

Thanks for playing now get your head back into the game...before you lose it.

Thanks for the gratuitous insult. Those are great for proving you have no real point.

You forgot the most obvious reason for this operation: Complete incompetence.

 

[techieny]

 

[Full-Auto]

I hope you dont mind, But I am going to copy that picture.

 

[WillowTree]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

But Nixon and Reagan weren't black.

poor black obama.. booo hoooo

 

[westwall]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

Watergate body count 0, Fast and Furious body count 200+ Screw you you uncaring partisan hack. Obama knew, proving it will be hard with their full court press of document destruction. But hey if you can't prove it it's OK right? Prick.

 

[westwall]

As noted correctly several times, and predictably ignored by the right, is the fact that Watergate involved a president knowingly covering up a criminal conspiracy by buying the silence of the conspirators with campaign contributions, lying about it, and using Federal agencies to intimidate and spy on Americans Nixon considered to be his ‘enemies.’

Do any of Obama’s enemies have evidence the president is trying to cover up a conspiracy? Is there any evidence witnesses are not being allowed to speak, are being bought off, or are otherwise being intimidated by the power of the Federal government to not speak at the behest of Obama?

If not then this is in nowhere near the realm of Watergate, or Iran/Contra, for that matter, as also noted – and it is receiving the appropriate attention it deserves accordingly.

But Nixon and Reagan weren't black.

If they had done this shit we would be wanting their heads on a plate too you racist prick.

 

[westwall]

Fast and furious is an example of incompetence, not a conspiracy. Do you really think that incompetent people would be able to carry out a conspiracy anyway?

And, did it result in stricter gun control?

That was the goal for sure. Just listen to all the rhetoric from Holder, Clinton et al before the program got started. Let's look at what occured, the ATF was ordered to allow these weapons to get in the hands of violent felons (and not just allowed, they were actually provided cash to go buy them in the first place and then move them on) and there was no effort made to track them to a end source. There was no effort at evidence collection or maintaining a chain of custody (very important evidence if one is actually TRYING to prosecute a case).

Instead we are presented with this scenario..."lets get these weapons into the hands of these criminals and then we can track their usage by picking them up at crime scenes".

Please show me what case is actually trying to be prosecuted here? So here's the deal, either the DOJ was just giving guns out because they WANTED people to be killed for whatever reeason, or they wanted the weapons to be used so they could then fabricate a case to subvert the 2nd Amendment. Feel free to choose whichever situation you wish but the fact remains the DOJ is guilty of Accessory to Murder.

Thanks for playing now get your head back into the game...before you lose it.

Thanks for the gratuitous insult. Those are great for proving you have no real point.

You forgot the most obvious reason for this operation: Complete incompetence.

What insult? I merely stated that instead of just adopting the party line maybe you should do some proper research. Incompetence requires there to have been an attempt to make a case. There WAS NO ATTEMPT to make a case. Why is it so hard for you to understand what is in play. Too partisan perhaps?

Here's a wakeup call for you, had this been a Republican, every poster on this board demanding Holders head would be doing EXACTLY the same thing. I'm a Democrat but I have enough common decency to realise when a line has been crossed.

Clearly you don't...or don't care.