AZ passes law saying life beings pre-conception

[BDBoop]

Frankly, I have no data on what or how much money is the "abortion" business as you like to call it, however I have noticed that none of the data I have provided to you has been disputed with data other than an opinion, I do like how you dismiss Supreme Court rulings on the subject though as being " irrelevant and yet then rely on those so called " unelected judges" to make your case. No matter, Casey reaffirmed Roe, and in so doing made it clear the "viability" standard and am sorry to tell you this takes precedence. As to the 1st Amendment I've made it quite clear where the 1st Amendment applies in this case, and guess what, the word "contraceptive" is not there as well nor is the word , Christian,Islam, Jewish, you name and yet, isn't it ironic that every so often a case comes before the court with just those people and issues involved.

And in other big news of the day, OK supreme court reversed their personhood law.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...ood-measure-struck-down-by-supreme-court.html

 

[Darkwind]

What the hell are 'life beings'?

 

[Navy1960]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f27hZXCX-Bs](Mr. Conservative) Barry Goldwater: "Abortion is not a conservative issue!" - YouTube[/ame]

As I said, many toss around the word "leftist", when it comes to this issue, and would advise them that not everyone who believes as I do that Govt. should be held to standards set down in the Constitution and is done do by the consent of the Governed and that includes people of all beliefs, all cultures, all colors, all of whom at one time or another have paid in blood for this nation and it's Freedoms, are as many would choose to tell them part of a singular political belief. Like me many "conservatives" believe as Sen. Goldwater did and many other "conservatives". So again, this is not a "left" "right" issue if it were every Democrat would be pro-choice which they are not, and every Republican would be pro-life which they are not when it comes to this.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Frankly, I have no data on what or how much money is the "abortion" business as you like to call it,

{The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), the research arm of Planned Parenthood, estimates that there were 1.21 million abortions performed in the U.S. in the year 2005. Of the 1.21 million annual abortions, approximately 88% (1.06 million) are performed during the first trimester. The other 12% (150,000) are performed during the second and third trimester. In 2005, the average cost of a nonhospital abortion with local anesthesia at 10 weeks of gestation was $413. The Women's Medical Center estimates that a 2nd trimester abortion costs up to $3000 (with the price increasing the further along the pregnancy goes). If we take the $413 average for 1st trimester abortions and use a $3000 average for 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions, here's what we get: $438 million is spent each year on first trimester abortions and $393 million is spent on late term abortions. That means that each year in the U.S., the abortion industry brings in approximately $831 million through their abortion services alone. If you add in the $337 million (or more) that Planned Parenthood (America's largest abortion provider) receives annually in government grants and contracts for, the annual dollar amount moves well past 1 billion. }

The Case Against Abortion: Abortion for Profit

It's a billion dollar industry - BIG money.

however I have noticed that none of the data I have provided to you has been disputed with data other than an opinion, I do like how you dismiss Supreme Court rulings on the subject though as being " irrelevant and yet then rely on those so called " unelected judges" to make your case.

If I list Plessy v. Ferguson, will you dispute it?

I doubt that you would. You might point out that it's utterly irrelevant to the case at hand, though.

Listing cases is all fine, but since they have no relation to the current situation, they are irrelevant.

No matter, Casey reaffirmed Roe, and in so doing made it clear the "viability" standard and am sorry to tell you this takes precedence.

You have two issues. First, Roe established the concept of trimesters in law, thus the use of same in the AZ law makes it a tricky bit for you of the pro-abortion camp. Will you attack the precedent?

Further, you view Casey as support for federal interdiction in the civil rights of Arizona citizens, yet the concept of "informed consent" is another of the provisions that will be difficult for pro-aborts to attack.

Notice that HB2564 has nothing about spousal notification, but does contain informed consent? The authors read Casey.

As to the 1st Amendment I've made it quite clear where the 1st Amendment applies in this case, and guess what, the word "contraceptive" is not there as well nor is the word , Christian,Islam, Jewish, you name and yet, isn't it ironic that every so often a case comes before the court with just those people and issues involved.

The 1st amendment is utterly irrelevant. IF you seek to recite pro-abort dogma, be aware that it is 4th, not 1st amendment precepts that are used.

{The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.}

Now, the court's manipulation and outright fabrication is it's own debate, but there is no claim that the invented right to privacy is predicated on anything save the protections of the 4th against unwarranted search and seizure.

Of course, anyone claiming a "right to privacy," while this nation hands out prison sentences for failing to detail every aspect of their lives via a 1040 form, has no sense of irony.

 

[Navy1960]

The landmark case that desegregated schools was Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 347 U.S. 483, a 1954 case in which the Supreme Court Justices unanimously ruled segregation in the public schools was unconstitutional. Chief Justice Earl Warren, in writing the Court opinion, declared "separate educational facilities are inherently unequal" because they violated the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause.

This overturned the 1896 Supreme Court ruling in Plessy v. Ferguson, which held the concept of "separate but equal" was constitutional.

Case Citation:
Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954)

As to your case citation, as it has been overturned and is no longer valid you will have to do better than that, as for provsions held in in Roe

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician.

That is wha was held in Roe so if your holding to the Roe standard then so be it, however that still does not square with the Arizona Law in that, it seek to set standards by which that medical judgement is taken out of the hands of the woman's attending physician and place it into the hands of state legislators who are driven by groups like I mentioned above such as Arizona Center for Legislative Policy.

As early as 1923, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Constitution protects personal decisions regarding marriage and the family from governmental intrusion. In 1965, the Court ruled that a state cannot prohibit a married couple from practicing contraception. In 1972, it extended the right to use birth control to all people, married or single. And in its 1973 ruling in Roe v. Wade, the Court held that the Constitution's protections of privacy as a fundamental right encompass a woman's decision to have an abortion.

For the first quarter, Pfizer reported a profit of $1.79 billion, or 24 cents a share, down from $2.22 billion, or 28 cents a share, a year earlier. The latest quarter included costs such as a charge of $450 million for a pending settlement of a lawsuit in which Brigham Young University claimed a share of profits from pain drug Celebrex under a research agreement. Pfizer said terms of the settlement were confidential.
UPDATE: Pfizer Profit Falls 19% As Generics Hurt Lipitor Sales - WSJ.com

I'd have to say that in the grand scheme of Medical Business then , based on the figures you provided abortion "services" which by the way includes all services is not a lot.

Last Year U.S. Hospitalcare sales according to the AMA was around 831 Billion dollars alone and that figure does not represent the Medical Industry as a while which is over a multi-trillion dollar industry.

As to the 1st Amendment Question, that question is not one posed just by me, it also one that has for many years been posed by several groups including the ACLU. In fact in the University of Il. school of Law has a lecture series about how the 1st Amendment and these types of laws interfere with a Doctors rights, while states have the right to regulate a Doctors medical license they cannot compel them to advise a patient based on "religious" views as was the case in S.D. Again while you disagree with me and thats fine, it's great our nation has these sorts of debates, I would argue that laws such as these crafted for the benefit of a narrow view of one's religious beliefs not only are wrong but also violate the 1st Amendment.

Lastly, these laws associated with abortion have been mostly decided on the 4th and 14th Amendment as was the case with Roe , however Roe nor Casey had the phrasing in it that sought to establish a religious basis for the beginning of life.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Again, what relevance has this to HB2564?

You're trying a shotgun approach of tossing out random cases. They have no bearing on the Arizona law, nor abortion in general.

 

[Navy1960]

No decision of the Supreme Court in the twentieth century has been as controversial as the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision holding that women have a right to choose to have an abortion during the first two trimesters of a pregnancy. Attorneys for Roe had suggested several constitutional provisions might be violated by the Texas law prohibiting abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother. The law was said to have been an establishment of religion in violation of the First Amendment, unconstitionally vague (the ground used in Blackmun's first draft of his opinion),

The right to an abortion

First I thought you would like to see that the conflict this law sets up is nothing new.

Second I thought you might like to see the Bill we are talking about,.... Arizona HB2036

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/adopted/s.2036jud.pdf

At to 2564 the Consent Law which parts have been amended by 2036, the only thing at controversy there when it comes to consent of Minors is the health of the minor. Courts have upheld and even in Casey that a state can and does have the right to make laws that require consent from minors, with the notable exception in the N.H. case where the health and welfare of the minor is concerned. I have no issue with consent laws when they apply to minors in this way and have not voiced otherwise.

As for the bills in question one other thing to consider..

Oklahoma judge strikes down ultrasound law

The court has resoundingly affirmed what should not be a matter of controversy at all—that women have both a fundamental right to make their own choices about their reproductive health, and that government has no place in their decisions. Today's decision adds to the growing momentum of a nationwide backlash against the overreaching of lawmakers hostile to women, their doctors, and their rights.

JURIST - Paper Chase: Oklahoma judge strikes down ultrasound law

Some states are backing away from these types of laws, never mind the 1st Amendment issue wich is clear there is one and has been one for some time and the inclusion of language in the texts of both bills enforces that, ultrasounds are facing court challenges nation wide some have been upheld some have been struck down all on their way to the Supreme Court.

Now on a side note...


Arizona’s foster care system manages an unprecedented 11,000 foster children today. Through no fault of their own, children who enter foster care have been removed from their homes due to abuse, neglect, abandonment and/or drug exposure. Once they are in Arizona’s foster care system, they are often scared and confused. What the children need most is to live in a stable, loving home, knowing that they have someone who cares and who they can count on.
Arizona Foster Care - AASK Arizona

For children waiting to be adopted in Arizona, the
average length of stay in care is more than two and a
half years (29.1 months). On average, children who
were adopted in 2007 spent 30.3 months in care
before the adoption was finalized.
http://www.nacac.org/policy/statefactsheets/AZ.pdf


No offense here, but if people are so concerned with the welfare of our young people then things like this would be just as important as trying to restrict the "freedoms" of our fellow citizens.