Ayn Rands SS checks

[del]

You cared enough about it to make a baseless claim.

and a baseless claim equates caring how?

You know...clicking, typing a response you read somewhere else, clicking again...

those would be defined as clicking, typing, reading and clicking respectively.

you need a new thesaurus.

 

[code1211]

Can you post the quote that says she is against Social Security?

You're being facetious, right?

Not in the slightest. You are saying that she said it. I'm wondering if she did.

 

[code1211]

Can you post her railings against Social Security and Medicare?

You cannot be serious. I'm going to recommend you go look up Objectivism, Ayn Rand, and her belief system. Then, I want you to come back here and tell me with a straight face that she was in favor of Social Security and Medicare.

While you're at it, go to the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights and read the article that is entitled, "Social Security is Immoral"

Here's a link:

The Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights: Social Security is Immoral

The link goes to an article not authored by Rand.

 

[uscitizen]

Can you post the quote that says she is against Social Security?

You're being facetious, right?

Not in the slightest. You are saying that she said it. I'm wondering if she did.

You know nothing about Any Rand if you are wondering that.

 

[code1211]

You cannot be serious. I'm going to recommend you go look up Objectivism, Ayn Rand, and her belief system. Then, I want you to come back here and tell me with a straight face that she was in favor of Social Security and Medicare.

While you're at it, go to the Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights and read the article that is entitled, "Social Security is Immoral"

Here's a link:

The Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights: Social Security is Immoral

So even though the fucking government confiscated 15% of her income she is just supposed to let the fucking government keep it?

1/2 of that 15% is paid by the employer. There is no basis to say she would get that if it was not paid to the SS program.

Do people pay SS on Book sales? Did she hold down a regular job?

Tax may also be withheld from certain other income ... dividends, interest, capital gains, rent, and royalties ... exemption applies only to income tax, not to Social Security ...
Tax Withholding

If one is self employed then that person pays the whole dime for the ride. The 7% paid by the employer and the 7% paid by the employee becomes 14% for the self employed.

 

[Oddball]

If one is self employed then that person pays the whole dime for the ride. The 7% paid by the employer and the 7% paid by the employee becomes 14% for the self employed.

Everybody pays the full amount.

The "employer contribution" scam is an accounting shell game.

 

[uscitizen]

14% or 15%?


btw Medicare had been in place 6 years before Ayn Rand took advantage of it.

 

[daveman]

and a baseless claim equates caring how?

You know...clicking, typing a response you read somewhere else, clicking again...

those would be defined as clicking, typing, reading and clicking respectively.

you need a new thesaurus.

My thesaurus is just fine. But then, I'm not the one pretending here.

 

[uscitizen]

If one is self employed then that person pays the whole dime for the ride. The 7% paid by the employer and the 7% paid by the employee becomes 14% for the self employed.

Everybody pays the full amount.

The "employer contribution" scam is an accounting shell game.

bull. It is not shown as income on my history.

It is however a common right wing rationalization.

Such as that tort reform drops our personal medical costs.

 

[code1211]

So even though the fucking government confiscated 15% of her income she is just supposed to let the fucking government keep it?

So tell me, in Atlas Shrugged, did John Galt (essentially Ayn Rand) give into the system in order to get some of the riches that he lost by going a different path?

Again I have to ask, did I miss that chapter?

What is hilarious about this entire thread is all I'm doing is applying Rand's Objectivist, there are only absolutes philosophy. Like I said previously in this thread, I don't personally mind if Rand got the benefits that she paid into a system for. However, I'll repost a quote of hers I just posted:

There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction.

By taking Social Security and Medicare, she compromised her basic principles. Up into her death, she continued to talk about the "parasites" and "moochers" while on the dole herself.

Social Security is a contract in which the payer pays until it's time to recieve. It's like an annuity in that respect except that the reality is that it's a Ponzi Scheme. Being on the "dole" implies that there was no previous consideration.

Since there was a previous consideration, an offer by the government and an acceptance by the taxpayer, all of the components of a contract are fulfilled. If any other contractual arrangement can be called the "dole", then this one can also.

Is owning a home considered to be on the "dole"?

 

[uscitizen]

So even though the fucking government confiscated 15% of her income she is just supposed to let the fucking government keep it?

So tell me, in Atlas Shrugged, did John Galt (essentially Ayn Rand) give into the system in order to get some of the riches that he lost by going a different path?

Again I have to ask, did I miss that chapter?

What is hilarious about this entire thread is all I'm doing is applying Rand's Objectivist, there are only absolutes philosophy. Like I said previously in this thread, I don't personally mind if Rand got the benefits that she paid into a system for. However, I'll repost a quote of hers I just posted:

There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction.

By taking Social Security and Medicare, she compromised her basic principles. Up into her death, she continued to talk about the "parasites" and "moochers" while on the dole herself.

Social Security is a contract in which the payer pays until it's time to recieve. It's like an annuity in that respect except that the reality is that it's a Ponzi Scheme. Being on the "dole" implies that there was no previous consideration.

Since there was a previous consideration, an offer by the government and an acceptance by the taxpayer, all of the components of a contract are fulfilled. If any other contractual arrangement can be called the "dole", then this one can also.

Is owning a home considered to be on the "dole"?

Wrongo, SS is like paying on an insurance policy not an annuity.

 

[code1211]

You're being facetious, right?

Not in the slightest. You are saying that she said it. I'm wondering if she did.

You know nothing about Any Rand if you are wondering that.

I saw nothing in what I've read that states flatly that all government ventures are bad. She never addressses the evil of public roads or of a publically supported military that I am aware of. If these things are not outright opposed, they are endorsed. In her books, she often referances travel on public roads and highways and does not, to my recollection condemn them.

She does condemn the interferance of government policies on private enterprise endeavors. She strikes a pretty hard line in literary device to make her point defining the methods of interferance the outcomes achieved. I don't recall her addressing Social Security although Social Security was a program in force for years prior to the publication of Atlas Shrugged.

The assertion is that she was against Social Security. I have never seen a quote from Rand saying this and am wondering if it exists.

Does it?

 

[code1211]

So tell me, in Atlas Shrugged, did John Galt (essentially Ayn Rand) give into the system in order to get some of the riches that he lost by going a different path?

Again I have to ask, did I miss that chapter?

What is hilarious about this entire thread is all I'm doing is applying Rand's Objectivist, there are only absolutes philosophy. Like I said previously in this thread, I don't personally mind if Rand got the benefits that she paid into a system for. However, I'll repost a quote of hers I just posted:



By taking Social Security and Medicare, she compromised her basic principles. Up into her death, she continued to talk about the "parasites" and "moochers" while on the dole herself.

Social Security is a contract in which the payer pays until it's time to recieve. It's like an annuity in that respect except that the reality is that it's a Ponzi Scheme. Being on the "dole" implies that there was no previous consideration.

Since there was a previous consideration, an offer by the government and an acceptance by the taxpayer, all of the components of a contract are fulfilled. If any other contractual arrangement can be called the "dole", then this one can also.

Is owning a home considered to be on the "dole"?

Wrongo, SS is like paying on an insurance policy not an annuity.

Really it's like neither. It's much more like a Ponzi Scheme. The money that I spent into it was used to pay for my parents and the money paid in by our children will pay for us.

This is exactly what Bernie Maddoff was jailed for doing.

 

[Woyzeck]

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them | | AlterNet


Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor (her husband was Frank O'Connor).

This is what we call a world-class hypocrite.

 

[Ravi]

14% or 15%?


btw Medicare had been in place 6 years before Ayn Rand took advantage of it.

Then no doubt she got more than she put into it.

It is a bit odd she didn't say anything about it while she was living on the government's tit, no?

I wonder if the Ayn Rand Institute will now attempt to distance themselves from her or will they pretend that their stance is not that Medicare raises health care costs for everyone else.

My bet is they spin away and lose even more credibility (if that is possible).

 

[asterism]

Wrong. This would be akin to an Anti-Gay Preacher being caught with a male escort or Richard Dawkins getting last rites on his death bed. She wanted to hold others to standards she did not hold herself, that is the definition of a hypocrite.

If your problem with this thread is the fact it's a dead person, tough luck. Dead people on both sides of the aisle are routinely criticized on USMB.

Personally, I could care less about Rand, she was a hack writer and a person who receives far more praise then she deserves for those books. Though you can feel free to write a 70 page monologue of your own telling me why I'm wrong.

She practiced what she preached in this context. She didn't think it was a good idea but since she was forced to live under the rules defined by someone else she did.

I didn't want to pay for the new road in front of my house. The time to object was at the planning meeting. Once overruled I still sent the extra tax assessment in and I still drive on it every time I enter or leave my driveway.

i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that not cashing SS checks was illegal.

fail

Money she didn't want to give was taken from her. Some of that money was then returned to her in the form of checks that she was then legally allowed to cash. The premise was the government shouldn't have taken so much in the first place, but there's nothing hypocritical with accepting what was given back to her.

Here are the rules:

1. Money is taken away from people who object to the amount, means, scope and reason.
2. The entity taking it away sometimes gives some back, clearly marked as theirs.
3. The premise is that it was theirs to start with.

 

[asterism]

She practiced what she preached in this context. She didn't think it was a good idea but since she was forced to live under the rules defined by someone else she did.

I didn't want to pay for the new road in front of my house. The time to object was at the planning meeting. Once overruled I still sent the extra tax assessment in and I still drive on it every time I enter or leave my driveway.

You seem to not understand she didn't practice what she preached. She herself said "there is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Her characters in her novels had the same opportunity to take advantage in systems they adamantly opposed, so tell me, did they give into the system finding untold riches or did they continue to reject the system?

Seriously, I don't mind if Rand got Social Security since she did pay into it, but don't try to tell me it isn't hypocrisy.

Rand herself said Objectivism deals with absolutes. If you don't like the fact her philosophy is her own worst enemy in this case, not my problem. Also, what you bolded doesn't make sense.

I'm aware that you think you have this figured out. I hope you are aware that the possibility exists that you don't and you've not really got a laundry list of real world accomplishments behind you. Have you ever actually lived on your own at all?

Having money taken away and accepting some of it back is not hypocritical. You may have read Atlas Shrugged but it seems you don't understand it. That's fine, you've probably read Karl Marx' works too. I don't think you understand them.

Why are you in college? I was there to learn. Your definition of learning might be different from mine, but I'm the one with the experience and you're the one without any. Please, demonstrate it some more with further comments. We're all waiting for you to demonstrate the success of your theories once you run the planet. Gotta actually run the planet first, though. Good luck.

 

[asterism]

Google "Ayn Rand Took Social Security Checks?" and you'll see it's the current democrat talking point plastered all over the net.

Or I'll just do it for ya':
Google

Funny how "original" all the Progressives think they are demonstrating their lack of critical thinking.

Sheep, 100%.

 

[Oddball]

If one is self employed then that person pays the whole dime for the ride. The 7% paid by the employer and the 7% paid by the employee becomes 14% for the self employed.

Everybody pays the full amount.

The "employer contribution" scam is an accounting shell game.

bull. It is not shown as income on my history.

It is however a common right wing rationalization.

Such as that tort reform drops our personal medical costs.

That's part of the shell game.

If you ever ran a real business and created actual business models, you'd understand these things.

 

[asterism]

She felt that theft is wrong, as a moral absolute.

What were her feelings on the transgressed getting just compensation?

Don't worry, I'm sure she tried to justify it to herself that the same benefits she criticized the "weak and worthless" for receiving were okay for her. At the end of the day however, as I have said twice now, she dealt with absolutes.

As I will once again quote her, "There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Can't make it anymore clearer then that. I'm not the one who said it, she did. You seem to think I'm criticizing someone for taking benefits that they paid in for, I'm not. However, feel free to show me where in Atlas Shrugged that Galt had given in to the system that he was fighting and felt was wrong to gain riches to get out of poverty. Was that in a postscript that I missed?

When you actually have to plan for your own retirement and you compare the forced government plan with your voluntary private plan maybe then you'll have a clue. If you are fortunate enough to see how subsidizing the poor with 10% of the outlays but buying favors with the other 90% directly affects you (we pay, they play, they need more to play, so we pay more) then you might actually begin to appreciate the situation.

My neighbor has a nicer boat than me. We chuckle about how I bought them both. He agrees, nobody is going to buy me a boat when I'm his age.