Ayn Rands SS checks

[code1211]

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them | | AlterNet


Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor (her husband was Frank O'Connor).

Are you calling her out because she was forced to support the system through taxation and did so or because she accepted the benefits from the system that she paid into when it was her turn to recieve them?

It seems like if you're forced to play the game, you should be allowed to win.

No.

A true die hard would have refused the checks.

Or at least gave them to charity.

Again, she was forced to play the game. She didn't make the rules and didn't refuse to play. She was forced to play and she played.

She would not have been forced by her philosophy to refuse the checks. She would have been forced by her philosophy to make a decision in that situation that would provide her the greatest good as she recognized that good to be at that time in her life.

 

[code1211]

Are you calling her out because she was forced to support the system through taxation and did so or because she accepted the benefits from the system that she paid into when it was her turn to recieve them?

It seems like if you're forced to play the game, you should be allowed to win.

Rand herself said "there is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

She liked to talk the talk, but in the end didn't walk the walk. She advocated a black and white world, not one with shades of grey. By her own standards, she was a walking hypocrite.

By that measure, all who have ever written, been written about or have tried to live by a given set of priciples are hypocrites.

I will agree with you that was a human being.

 

[del]

Are you calling her out because she was forced to support the system through taxation and did so or because she accepted the benefits from the system that she paid into when it was her turn to recieve them?

It seems like if you're forced to play the game, you should be allowed to win.

No.

A true die hard would have refused the checks.

Or at least gave them to charity.

Wait a minute! Next the left will be telling me that because I've been successful, they have a right to take away my 401K and give it to those less successful?

 

[Modbert]

John Galt is a character. Ayn Rand didn't want to go to prison for not paying taxes.

That does not answer my post at all. John Galt was Ayn Rand. Not only that, she considered John Galt the ideal man. That 70 page monologue of John Galt's was Ayn Rand's Objectivist views. Ayn Rand paid her taxes, however by her own philosophy she should of rejected the benefits that the "parasites" and "moochers" partook of.

Either I'm dealing with faux Objectivists in this thread or some of you don't understand her philosophy dealt in absolutes.

I feel bad for the woman who advocated and lived in what she considered a black-and-white world. Feel free to address the following quote of hers since nobody else has:

"There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Let me ask you Dave, in the eight years she lived after she began to receive the benefits, do you think she told her fellow Objectivists? I haven't seen any record of it. Do you think she stopped railing against Social Security and Medicare? I doubt it.

 

[Modbert]

By that measure, all who have ever written, been written about or have tried to live by a given set of priciples are hypocrites.

I will agree with you that was a human being.

What? A similar example in this situation would be finding out that later in their lives, MLK Jr. and Gandhi started to mow down people who got the way of civil liberties.

 

[daveman]

John Galt is a character. Ayn Rand didn't want to go to prison for not paying taxes.

That does not answer my post at all. John Galt was Ayn Rand.

Don't be an idiot. John Galt was a character. She was under no obligation to live her life according to a character's views, no matter how much you stamp your feet.

Not only that, she considered John Galt the ideal man. That 70 page monologue of John Galt's was Ayn Rand's Objectivist views. Ayn Rand paid her taxes, however by her own philosophy she should of rejected the benefits that the "parasites" and "moochers" partook of.

Either I'm dealing with faux Objectivists in this thread or some of you don't understand her philosophy dealt in absolutes.

I feel bad for the woman who advocated and lived in what she considered a black-and-white world. Feel free to address the following quote of hers since nobody else has:

"There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Let me ask you Dave, in the eight years she lived after she began to receive the benefits, do you think she told her fellow Objectivists? I haven't seen any record of it. Do you think she stopped railing against Social Security and Medicare? I doubt it.

You doubt it. Well, that settles it, doesn't it?

Oh, wait...no, it doesn't.

Let me guess...you're one of those "Who needs oil? I ride the bus!" liberals, aren't you?

 

[code1211]

Ayn.
What a hack. I don't know how anyone can read her drivel.

Only right wingers it appears. I tried atlas shrugged made it a chapter or so.

Not to worry! "Atlas Shrugged" will be in theaters soon so you won't have to hurt your brain trying to read all dem dere big and hard to understand college-type words. Yee Haw!

I didn't know this was in production. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[daveman]

By that measure, all who have ever written, been written about or have tried to live by a given set of priciples are hypocrites.

I will agree with you that was a human being.

Not quite. A similar example would be finding out that later in their lives, MLK Jr. and Gandhi started to mow down people who got the way of civil liberties.

Ahhh. So collecting government benefits you paid for is just the same as murder.

 

[del]

the only novel worse than atlas shrugged is the fountainhead.

the woman was a hack, period.

 

[del]

By that measure, all who have ever written, been written about or have tried to live by a given set of priciples are hypocrites.

I will agree with you that was a human being.

Not quite. A similar example would be finding out that later in their lives, MLK Jr. and Gandhi started to mow down people who got the way of civil liberties.

Ahhh. So collecting government benefits you paid for is just the same as murder.

ahh, so she stopped collecting once her contribution was used up.

well, that's different. oh, wait...

 

[Modbert]

John Galt is a character. Ayn Rand didn't want to go to prison for not paying taxes.

That does not answer my post at all. John Galt was Ayn Rand.

Don't be an idiot. John Galt was a character. She was under no obligation to live her life according to a character's views, no matter how much you stamp your feet.

Not only that, she considered John Galt the ideal man. That 70 page monologue of John Galt's was Ayn Rand's Objectivist views. Ayn Rand paid her taxes, however by her own philosophy she should of rejected the benefits that the "parasites" and "moochers" partook of.

Either I'm dealing with faux Objectivists in this thread or some of you don't understand her philosophy dealt in absolutes.

I feel bad for the woman who advocated and lived in what she considered a black-and-white world. Feel free to address the following quote of hers since nobody else has:

"There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Let me ask you Dave, in the eight years she lived after she began to receive the benefits, do you think she told her fellow Objectivists? I haven't seen any record of it. Do you think she stopped railing against Social Security and Medicare? I doubt it.

You doubt it. Well, that settles it, doesn't it?

Oh, wait...no, it doesn't.

Let me guess...you're one of those "Who needs oil? I ride the bus!" liberals, aren't you?

Well can you show me any evidence she stopped talking about Social Security and Medicare as being a vehicle for "parasites"? Or she did openly say that Social Security and Medicare was okay? That would be a better question to ask.

You still haven't answered my question, instead you resort to strawman attacks and personal insults like the others in this thread. Another fail. You didn't address the quotation I posted. Yet another fail.

Also, no. I deal with reality, not absolutes like Rand. I don't like the fact our country is addicted to oil, however I am more than willing to pay to use it until alternate forms of energy are made available for a price that is affordable for me. I'm also an advocate for several different forms of alternative energy, including Nuclear energy.

Take the ad hominems down the road.

 

[Ravi]

 

[code1211]

She felt that theft is wrong, as a moral absolute.

What were her feelings on the transgressed getting just compensation?

Don't worry, I'm sure she tried to justify it to herself that the same benefits she criticized the "weak and worthless" for receiving were okay for her. At the end of the day however, as I have said twice now, she dealt with absolutes.

As I will once again quote her, "There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Can't make it anymore clearer then that. I'm not the one who said it, she did. You seem to think I'm criticizing someone for taking benefits that they paid in for, I'm not. However, feel free to show me where in Atlas Shrugged that Galt had given in to the system that he was fighting and felt was wrong to gain riches to get out of poverty. Was that in a postscript that I missed?

Can you post the quote that says she is against Social Security?

 

[Modbert]

Ahhh. So collecting government benefits you paid for is just the same as murder.

Hooray! False Equivalences!

Though back in reality, that's not what I said at all. Gandhi and MLK Jr. advocated their entire lives for non-violence and civil disobedience. That umbrella doesn't involve killing those who stand in the way of gaining civil liberties. If MLK Jr. started to be like Charles Bronson in Death Wish, he would be a hypocrite for advocating non-violence while not practicing what he preaches.

Though I guess such concepts are either too complex for you to understand you wish to purposefully misconstrue my arguments because you have none of your own.

 

[code1211]

So she should just have let the government keep what they took from her without her permission for so long.

Would John Galt have given into the system in order to gain back some of the money he felt was stolen from him by the government without his permission? Before you answer, do take care to remember that Galt was essentially a outlet for Rand's Objectivist theories.

I personally have no problem with her getting the benefits she paid into the system for. However, the Ayn Rand of twenty years prior would of. Remember, in her own words, "There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

That's her standard, not mine.

Can you post the quote in which she cites Social Security as being evil?

 

[daveman]

Not quite. A similar example would be finding out that later in their lives, MLK Jr. and Gandhi started to mow down people who got the way of civil liberties.

Ahhh. So collecting government benefits you paid for is just the same as murder.

ahh, so she stopped collecting once her contribution was used up.

well, that's different. oh, wait...

Did she? How do you know?

 

[del]

Ahhh. So collecting government benefits you paid for is just the same as murder.

ahh, so she stopped collecting once her contribution was used up.

well, that's different. oh, wait...

Did she? How do you know?

frankly, what one hack writer did or didn't do really doesnt interest me that much. watching people bend themselves into pretzels trying to justify it is entertaining though.

 

[Modbert]

Can you post the quote that says she is against Social Security?

You're being facetious, right?

 

[code1211]

John Galt is a character. Ayn Rand didn't want to go to prison for not paying taxes.

That does not answer my post at all. John Galt was Ayn Rand. Not only that, she considered John Galt the ideal man. That 70 page monologue of John Galt's was Ayn Rand's Objectivist views. Ayn Rand paid her taxes, however by her own philosophy she should of rejected the benefits that the "parasites" and "moochers" partook of.

Either I'm dealing with faux Objectivists in this thread or some of you don't understand her philosophy dealt in absolutes.

I feel bad for the woman who advocated and lived in what she considered a black-and-white world. Feel free to address the following quote of hers since nobody else has:

"There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Let me ask you Dave, in the eight years she lived after she began to receive the benefits, do you think she told her fellow Objectivists? I haven't seen any record of it. Do you think she stopped railing against Social Security and Medicare? I doubt it.

Can you post her railings against Social Security and Medicare?

 

[daveman]

That does not answer my post at all. John Galt was Ayn Rand.

Don't be an idiot. John Galt was a character. She was under no obligation to live her life according to a character's views, no matter how much you stamp your feet.

Not only that, she considered John Galt the ideal man. That 70 page monologue of John Galt's was Ayn Rand's Objectivist views. Ayn Rand paid her taxes, however by her own philosophy she should of rejected the benefits that the "parasites" and "moochers" partook of.

Either I'm dealing with faux Objectivists in this thread or some of you don't understand her philosophy dealt in absolutes.

I feel bad for the woman who advocated and lived in what she considered a black-and-white world. Feel free to address the following quote of hers since nobody else has:

"There is no justification ever for choosing for any part of what you know to be evil."

Let me ask you Dave, in the eight years she lived after she began to receive the benefits, do you think she told her fellow Objectivists? I haven't seen any record of it. Do you think she stopped railing against Social Security and Medicare? I doubt it.

You doubt it. Well, that settles it, doesn't it?

Oh, wait...no, it doesn't.

Let me guess...you're one of those "Who needs oil? I ride the bus!" liberals, aren't you?

Well can you show me any evidence she stopped talking about Social Security and Medicare as being a vehicle for "parasites"? Or she did openly say that Social Security and Medicare was okay? That would be a better question to ask.

You still haven't answered my question, instead you resort to strawman attacks and personal insults like the others in this thread. Another fail. You didn't address the quotation I posted. Yet another fail.

Also, no. I deal with reality, not absolutes like Rand. I don't like the fact our country is addicted to oil, however I am more than willing to pay to use it until alternate forms of energy are made available for a price that is affordable for me. I'm also an advocate for several different forms of alternative energy, including Nuclear energy.

Take the ad hominems down the road.

I suggest you deal with whatever is sent your way. I feel no obligation to protect your tender feelings.

So you don't like the fact that someone who preached against something took advantage of it. Were you similarly outraged when Rosie "More Gun Control Now!!" O'Donnell's bodyguard applied for a concealed carry permit? No? Then perhaps you should just admit you're looking for things to bash conservatives about and be done with it.