Ayn Rand on God

[Iridescence]

Suppose I killed somebody and I did it on behalf of APPLESAUCE.

Would we then blame APPLESAUCE for what I did?

I completely understand why (and am sympathetic to) atheists fear and objections to religionists who seek to impose their will (and their POVs) on non-religionists.

There's are one hell of a LOT of religionists who would, if they could, turn this nation into an authoritarian nightmare based on their own goofy (usually primative, often hateful, sometimes totally insane!) notions about how a society ought to run.

ONE type of RELIGIONIST that I find especially troubling right now are those religionists whose object of adoration is MAMMON.

And frankly, those religionists are the people who are currently IN CHARGE of our society.

As you can plainly see, their religion isn't doing good things to this society.

What I find somewhat astounding is the sects of Christianity which have become the allies of the worshippors of MAMMON.

Basically their religion is much like 17th century PURITANISM.

They believe that God's chosen, the elect, are rewarded with wealth and power and anyone who is not wealthy and powerful deserves no consideration because, as is plain to see, GOD doesn't love them here on earth.

This perversion of theology is a fairly good example of the complete abandonment of the basic premise of Christianity as I understand it.

Wow.

I don't know if I disagree with everything you post within the board, but this particular post smacks of complete ignorance toward a great many things.

I choose to keep my 'heart' as pure as possible but it is because I find it in my own best interest if I want a long life with optimum mental health. That means I shed not only my clothes at night but my daily burdens and my bitterness toward the day spent. It isn't just a book and it isn't just an illusion to many of 'us'.

Power, wealth, and 'all that jazz' is accordingly to what an individual loves most. I could not boast to be rich of anything because *I* don't have money, I am not especially educated, and though I am blessed beyond measure by the people within my life they are not my possessions.

What an individual makes of what they are given really can prove their potential. Perhaps that is why the 'God's people' are the rulers of any given land. Not because of political fronts put up by pacifier suckers who cry at every inch of injustice but because 'we' allow ourselves to be lead by the higher powers that be recognizing the importance of authority.

Perhaps what we need are a few more politicians that are higher ranking theologists than that which basic Christianity seems to offer most here. Perhaps the wrong we have done to our beloved nation is allowing PURITANICAL values to slip.

You object to everything I posted but you don't address anything I wrote?

That's rather telling.

Okay... let me break it down a bit, got your pacifier? Use your thumb if not.

So kill someone and boast it was in the honor of APPLESAUCE. Better yet, do it for something we Americans call JUSTICE. Now, understand better that God is a necessary authoritative figure. JUSTICE represents a necessary authority. The death penalty preserves a land from the infectious disease of the ones who refuse to be 'healed', rehabilitated. What would a better suggestion be? Hmmm? No death? No deliverance for someone who may not even be able to do better for themselves let alone for any spec of the systems put in place to 'save' such from oneself? Perhaps such said individuals should become third world migrant workers.

Your understanding toward such is important and admirable. I could not slam on anyone willing to put forth a little sincere and genuine understanding.

There does seem to be a lot of important issues with authority. Be it linked to religion and such is perhaps more debatable, though. It seems to me that the atheistic minded individuals are the ones most resistant to authority and could be specifically the thorn in America's side. If one does not believe in God it gives me pause as to what level of appreciation and understanding such an individual could give to police officers, doctors and those who devote their lives to serving 'us all', the religious and the atheists alike. To what depth could such a person account for within the systems designed for recognition to authoritative figures? Eh, it may be merely 'my' stumbling block in better supporting atheists, but I am not completely closed minded... I do what I can to accommodate those I am direct contact with to a point. I will NOT deny the authoritative figures and God for what I have those things be for myself, however. As NO ONE should have to do so.

I completely disagree that religion is not doing 'good things' for this society. I do understand that a great many things can be and are amiss but any system that has people involved is going to be flawed because 'we' are flawed both individually and collectively, but we are necessarily so. It seems to bring about the provocation, which is also necessary for continual GROWTH and PRODUCTION.

Now, as for as your last statement... and those few things above it, I responded already. It isn't at all that *I* personally want everyone within America to convert to Independent Fundamentalism. In fact, I have found that very few seem to have the capacity to do so. What I do hope for is that more who are not 'religious', or better stated perhaps is 'spiritual' to be able to gain whatever necessary individual and independent depth for their own selves to accomplish the most successful way of life possible. It isn't that I have higher expectations of others than I do myself, it is rather the opposite that keeps me humble enough to know better than to want to know everything about every thing/one. That for and to me is becoming Christ like.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Editec: Where I find the mutual problems come from -- whether extreme atheists who take nonbelief in Christianity/God into a negative campaign to attack or suppress opponents or whether extreme religionists abusing religious freedom to overstep bounds and threaten the equal protection of others -- is the lack of forgiveness.

As long as people on either side are able to forgive their differences, these do not have to become a public issue!

It is the fundamentalists on either side, who out of unforgiveness or blame of "an entire group or sect of people" who start waging campaigns against others they deem to be part of this group they contest.

Whatever group or cause that does this (you can see it across the political spectrum of issues and parties), I would urge them to seek training and assistance in conflict resolution and mediation, for the sake of the VERY Constitutional principles they want to defend or exercise. If these differences can be resolved, it not only protects the equal interests of all parties, in keeping with Amendment 14 and the Bill of Rights, but it also saves public resources in keeping with the Code of Ethics for Government Service (by not wasting either public resources or authority on cases that are really personal religious conflicts).

Ideally, public decisions should reflect the consent of the people, so if unresolved religious issues are involved, those should be handled in private and not drag the state into it. The state should only be asked to endorse a consensus decision, and not to impose one where religious matters are concerned, so no bias is imposed favoring one side or the other.

Suppose I killed somebody and I did it on behalf of APPLESAUCE.

Would we then blame APPLESAUCE for what I did?

I completely understand why (and am sympathetic to) atheists fear and objections to religionists who seek to impose their will (and their POVs) on non-religionists.

There's are one hell of a LOT of religionists who would, if they could, turn this nation into an authoritarian nightmare based on their own goofy (usually primative, often hateful, sometimes totally insane!) notions about how a society ought to run.

ONE type of RELIGIONIST that I find especially troubling right now are those religionists whose object of adoration is MAMMON.

And frankly, those religionists are the people who are currently IN CHARGE of our society.

As you can plainly see, their religion isn't doing good things to this society.

What I find somewhat astounding is the sects of Christianity which have become the allies of the worshippors of MAMMON.

Basically their religion is much like 17th century PURITANISM.

They believe that God's chosen, the elect, are rewarded with wealth and power and anyone who is not wealthy and powerful deserves no consideration because, as is plain to see, GOD doesn't love them here on earth.

This perversion of theology is a fairly good example of the complete abandonment of the basic premise of Christianity as I understand it.

I think you may be combining several factors here, such as:
1. the millenialists who believe the earth will be destroyed anyway, so they do not take all steps to preserve it as if it is meant to last; some actually seek armageddon to end it all
2. the people who think that God blesses them with abundance to the point they don't watch environmental damages or losses which they trust God is taking care of
3. people who are focused first on following the church laws first, and believe the state/secular laws come second and are subjugate to the church laws under God

Please do not give all attention and credence to just the extreme religious right,
but give equal attention and support to mainstream moderates and the Christian left:
1. Christians who work on microlending and cooperative economics to end poverty
2. Religious coalitions to support environmental conservation as stewards of the earth
3. Remember that the Christian Left/Quakers were a founding influence in US history

Make sure whatever stance you take is not abused as more fuel by the extremists.

One area where fundamental Christians may prove to be the strongest allies is in
helping peaceful Muslim communities and countries to check against violent Jihadists.

So even the group you blame the most as a problem
may end up being in charge of pushing for solutions.

Again, forgiveness is the key.

The more we can forgive our religious and political differences,
we can better focus where those very differences can serve the greater good.

Please be encouraged in this way, and you will better inspire the same in others.
Take care!