Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Wry Catcher, Jun 16, 2011.
Interesting interview of Ayn Rand.
Hi WC: I believe you can either prove aspects of God, such as spiritual healing, or agreement being possible among diverse approaches in the spirit of one truth.
More harm and hate is generated in the name of God than in any other human endeavor.
a. if you are going to make this observation, couldn't you equally say that more good and charity has been shared in the name of God than if no people on the planet had faith in making a difference, but left it all to somebody else?
b. personally I believe that all harm on the planet can be traced to
* unforgiveness of past conflict
* selfishness or greed instead of charity toward others
* separation or ignorance out of fear of something or someone unknown
That is the common factor, fear and selfishness, regardless if the person is religious or not
in contrast, I find that forgiveness, truth and charity, wisdom and justice with mercy
these factors open the door for good will and good faith relations to be restored
This is also independent of religion or no faith at all
But I believe what is meant by the spirit of God and Jesus
IS truth and justice, wisdom and compassion, forgiveness and correction in the
spirit of love and truth, charity to all people
whatever abuses have occurred are due to corruptions and lack of these good forces
Do you agree that selfishness, competing for greed, and unforgiveness/anger between conflicting people or groups is the common factor causing harm and hate?
Don't these things come from personal or social division or separation from competing groups, and then this division is "blamed" on race or religion or class? Isn't the expression of it, through religious or class wars, just the SYMPTOM of the problem not the cause?
[p.s. another way I could ask why not make a better distinction:
if you are going to blame God or religion for causing more harm and hate in the world,
then could you blame wars on MEN since more are fought by men?
does this mean that MEN are more evil than good the way RELIGION is more evil than good?
Or are you open to making distinctions
between what are the good things that MEN do (that outweigh the bad) as RELIGIONS do
and what causes either to be involved in abuses for bad, for war, or other harm?
do you look at the CAUSES of the abuse, or just blame RELIGION/MEN as a whole?]
I didn't find the interview particularly interesting. Actually it was pieces of several interviews. There wasn't much new.
In addition to being an atheist, she was a lesbian and married a girl many years her junior. She was also addicted to amphetamine with violent mood swings. Her support of the House Committee on Un-american Activities witch hunts in Hollywood ostracized her from most of Hollywood. Her philosophies were dismissed by most intellectuals but became widely accepted by the Conservatives.
Clearly Fiscally Conservative Republicans embrace Rand however it seems very unlikely that the Christian Right would accept either her or her philosophies. This is just another dichotomy in the party that could lead to a split.
Why do people who do not believe in God think that anyone cares what Ayn Rand believed about Him?
Why do people who believe in God also believe in Objectivism? At the time I posted this message (started this thread) the board had several other threads and posts on Rand's book, "Atlas Shrugged" and suggested her works would remake America.
I simply pointed out the person who was being idolized, or more accurately, the philosophy in which she believed, might be incongruent with the ideas expressed by the New Right or whatever one chooses to call the Tea Party adherents.
As to my signature line which was questioned at length above, I had in mind such diverse events as The Inquisitions, Salem Witch Trials, Ethnic Cleansings, such as the Holocaust, ideological battles within Islam, the treatment of women by both most religions, etc. etc.
Please spare me the reason nonsense.
Ayn is no more a proponent of reason than the most faith based idiot you or I know.
I get so fucking sick of the morons who pretend that their lives are directed by reason.
No, no they're not.
Their presuppositions are faith-based no less than the most fevored religious zealot's.
Hey Any, tell us the myth of the invivisble hand of the market.
Explain to us why market forces are a superior tool for directing mankind than planning.
Can you do THAT without appealing to NON-reason, really?
Of course you cannot.
Your religion, honey, is MAMMON.
Stop pretending that YOUR religion has anything whatever to do with REASON.
There is an absolute truth to the needs we have as mere mortals to our God, be 'Him' a man, a movement, an illusion, a reason, or whatever else 'we' choose to make 'Him' be for ourselves.
There are psychological depths that are acquired in which are an amazing benefit to those of us in which choose to empower ourselves with 'Him', and then yet there are those of 'us' who choose to destroy. It seems obvious who of 'us' does what when and how we respond to one another.
Wry Catchers signature
I disagree. I think greed is the root reason for all the harm and hate in the world. Just because dishonest people use God to justify whatever they want, does not mean God is any less real. It simply means that there are very few people who actually DO what God wants them to do.
You can't blame God for the wrongs done in his name, same as you can't blame yourself for someone going out and killing people in YOUR name.
I didn't watch the video, but a poster wrote that the woman in the videos religion was mammon. Whether it is or it isn't (as I haven't watched it), mammon i.e. money and all that it can buy, seems to me to be the main cause of hate and harm in the world to me. But, how come no one wants to attack our love for money?
Now you've done it, ciel_perdu.
The zealots of Mammon have your number now!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g"]YouTube - ‪She's a witch!‬‏[/ame]
What makes you think that anyone who believes in objectivism is a Christian?
Separate names with a comma.