AVG-Gun Owner.

[Ringel05]

Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bout my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.

Thanks. We're still shopping for just the right weapon for AVG-Wife, and you're not the first to recommend the PPK.

I'll make an off-the-wall recommendation...Century Arms is importing a slew of Polish P64 Makarov 9x18 semi-autos, very similar to the PPK.

A little more powerful than a .380, but less than a 9mm NATO.

These little guns are built like a tanks.

Bulk 9x18 Makarov is comparable to 9mm NATO. 1000 rounds of TulAmmo goes for $200.

View attachment 67171

And @ $232 delivered with holster and 2 mags, you can hardly beat the price.

FNS-9 Contest Entry: Polish P-64 Gun Review - The Truth About Guns

Educational Zone #113 - Interesting Firearms - The Polish Radom P-64 Pistol - The Box O' Truth

CIA HG3279G P64 9MM MAKAROV

It's my primary CC........ BTW if you buy one go to Wolfe Springs and buy a main spring pack with a #17, #18 and #19 main in it, the P64 has a #24 which will make your trigger finger look like Popeye's forearms........ I found the #19 works best for me, some might go with the #18 but I really think the #17 makes the single action function too sloppy, others have said it doesn't.
I would also recommend taking it apart and cleaning up some of the slide parts and trigger group, they sometimes require a little filing to make the actions smoother but don't file too much, you're mostly looking for burrs and bad pour spots.
Otherwise it's a great sidearm. I also own and carry a CZ 82 and a CZ 52 though with the 52 you want to use HP ammo as the standard FMJ is designed to penetrate Class II body armor which means it will blow through your target, the engine block behind your target and the 3 people behind the engine block......

Here's the CZ 82, Mac 9x18.

The CZ 52 (Some say it feels like a mouse trap attached to a 2x4), it fits my hand perfectly. It's all metal and big so it's heavy and works best as an open carry unless you're a big guy and can hide it well.

 

[Hossfly]

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.

.38 was the preferred standard caliber since it's introduction in 1902 and still is the most purchased round today, yup even over the current industry standard 9 mils.
The Moros (during the Moro Rebellion) would tie off their extremities (limiting blood flow), get high as a kite and attack with spears and knives, the standard Army .38 of the time would not even slow them down so the Army started using the .45 Colt, one or two shots would stop the Moros before they could get close enough to hack and stab our soldiers to death.
Don't believe the hype about the 9 mil being the deadliest sidearm cartridge out there, it's not, not by any stretch of the imagination, even the lowely .38 beats it. Doesn't mean it's not deadly, it's just no where near as deadly as some claim.

YESSSS Ring, I know that it is a semi-automatic, and so does everyone else. Do I really need to spell it out? As for the 45, you are right. It will stop anything, but My lady friend who was a nurse told me that she seldom saw anyone hit by a 45 more than once, whereas with a 9 MM, three hits were normal.

Yes, a three tap, center mass is standard training and I never mentioned anything about it being semi-auto, it's ballistics that I was referring to, obviously you missed it. Why so many 9 mil wounds/deaths? That's easy, what is the most used sidearm today? The 9 mil........ Before the 9 mil it was the .38 that caused the most wounds/deaths as it was the most used sidearm, kind of a duh moment don'tcha think.........

I have a number of various calibers in semis and revolvers but the reason I like the Glock 17 is because the magazine holds 17 round. With a pocket full of loaded mags you can put a ton of rounds downrange. For CC I prefer a S&W .38 Special even though it only holds 5 rounds.

 

[Ringel05]

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.

.38 was the preferred standard caliber since it's introduction in 1902 and still is the most purchased round today, yup even over the current industry standard 9 mils.
The Moros (during the Moro Rebellion) would tie off their extremities (limiting blood flow), get high as a kite and attack with spears and knives, the standard Army .38 of the time would not even slow them down so the Army started using the .45 Colt, one or two shots would stop the Moros before they could get close enough to hack and stab our soldiers to death.
Don't believe the hype about the 9 mil being the deadliest sidearm cartridge out there, it's not, not by any stretch of the imagination, even the lowely .38 beats it. Doesn't mean it's not deadly, it's just no where near as deadly as some claim.

YESSSS Ring, I know that it is a semi-automatic, and so does everyone else. Do I really need to spell it out? As for the 45, you are right. It will stop anything, but My lady friend who was a nurse told me that she seldom saw anyone hit by a 45 more than once, whereas with a 9 MM, three hits were normal.

Yes, a three tap, center mass is standard training and I never mentioned anything about it being semi-auto, it's ballistics that I was referring to, obviously you missed it. Why so many 9 mil wounds/deaths? That's easy, what is the most used sidearm today? The 9 mil........ Before the 9 mil it was the .38 that caused the most wounds/deaths as it was the most used sidearm, kind of a duh moment don'tcha think.........

I have a number of various calibers in semis and revolvers but the reason I like the Glock 17 is because the magazine holds 17 round. With a pocket full of loaded mags you can put a ton of rounds downrange. For CC I prefer a S&W .38 Special even though it only holds 5 rounds.

Everyone has a favorite based on what works for them.

 

[Missourian]

My holster

Assuming that the photo is not flipped, is that considered a "right-hand draw"?

If I go with that style, I'm thinking that I want it more in the small of my back with the trigger down, and a lefty would work.

The problem I see with having the trigger down is, as you draw, unless you go way out of your way, it is a lot easier to end up pointing the muzzle at yourself as you swing the firearm past your body.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself? There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......

Definitely something to look into.........

Do you know what to do if you are involved in a shooting?

Good luck..carry smart.....

Good advice. Most people, including gun grabbers think that CC is easy. They don't realize that you are governed by many regulations and laws you have to consider before you pull a gun or even shoot somebody. That when the police arrive you will surrender your gun and you will more than likely be booked. That you will have to appear before a judge for administrative justice and possible charges by a prosecutor. It's for your protection as a licensed gun carrier. The judge will either recommend you get a lawyer or based on the incident, will find you not guilty.
All these legalities will be taught in CC class.

It is tough to get a CC here in AZ. You drive up, fill out a form, and give them $25. Not just anybody in AZ has $25.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.

Interesting post...but why "in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357"?

Here is my 357 with my 9mm and mouse gun.

View attachment 67166

The 357 is wider than the 9mm, but otherwise almost the same size.

I consider this thread neutral territory, so i would prefer not to go in to that.....

 

[RandallFlagg]

Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bout my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.

Thanks. We're still shopping for just the right weapon for AVG-Wife, and you're not the first to recommend the PPK.

I'll make an off-the-wall recommendation...Century Arms is importing a slew of Polish P64 Makarov 9x18 semi-autos, very similar to the PPK.

A little more powerful than a .380, but less than a 9mm NATO.

These little guns are built like a tanks.

Bulk 9x18 Makarov is comparable to 9mm NATO. 1000 rounds of TulAmmo goes for $200.

View attachment 67171

And @ $232 delivered with holster and 2 mags, you can hardly beat the price.

FNS-9 Contest Entry: Polish P-64 Gun Review - The Truth About Guns

Educational Zone #113 - Interesting Firearms - The Polish Radom P-64 Pistol - The Box O' Truth

CIA HG3279G P64 9MM MAKAROV

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Maks. Decent guns.

 

[AVG-JOE]

My holster

Assuming that the photo is not flipped, is that considered a "right-hand draw"?

If I go with that style, I'm thinking that I want it more in the small of my back with the trigger down, and a lefty would work.

The problem I see with having the trigger down is, as you draw, unless you go way out of your way, it is a lot easier to end up pointing the muzzle at yourself as you swing the firearm past your body.

That thought has crossed my mind... one more thing in the plethora of options to consider

Ain't America great?​

 

[Vandalshandle]

Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself? There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......

Definitely something to look into.........

Do you know what to do if you are involved in a shooting?

Good luck..carry smart.....

Good advice. Most people, including gun grabbers think that CC is easy. They don't realize that you are governed by many regulations and laws you have to consider before you pull a gun or even shoot somebody. That when the police arrive you will surrender your gun and you will more than likely be booked. That you will have to appear before a judge for administrative justice and possible charges by a prosecutor. It's for your protection as a licensed gun carrier. The judge will either recommend you get a lawyer or based on the incident, will find you not guilty.
All these legalities will be taught in CC class.

It is tough to get a CC here in AZ. You drive up, fill out a form, and give them $25. Not just anybody in AZ has $25.

Don't get me wrong. AZ is an equal opportunity state. Getting a CC license is purely voluntary. It is legal for anyone in the state to CC without a license at all, without even having to demonstrate that you know where the safety switch is. This is a couple of exceptions, though. I'm one of them. I am not allowed to carry a firearm when I am on patrol duty with the Sheriff Auxiliary Volunteers. Oh, and felons's can't either.

I began to suspect that this was perhaps poor planning, when I saw a guy and his wife at a gun shop, looking for a gun for her, and telling the clerk that she had just got her CC license. At the time, she had her rifle butt on the floor,, and was resting her chin on her crossed arms over the barrel. If it had gone off, it would have gone through her arms, chin, brain, and out of the top of her head.

 

[Ringel05]

Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself? There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......

Definitely something to look into.........

Do you know what to do if you are involved in a shooting?

Good luck..carry smart.....

Good advice. Most people, including gun grabbers think that CC is easy. They don't realize that you are governed by many regulations and laws you have to consider before you pull a gun or even shoot somebody. That when the police arrive you will surrender your gun and you will more than likely be booked. That you will have to appear before a judge for administrative justice and possible charges by a prosecutor. It's for your protection as a licensed gun carrier. The judge will either recommend you get a lawyer or based on the incident, will find you not guilty.
All these legalities will be taught in CC class.

It is tough to get a CC here in AZ. You drive up, fill out a form, and give them $25. Not just anybody in AZ has $25.

Don't get me wrong. AZ is an equal opportunity state. Getting a CC license is purely voluntary. It is legal for anyone in the state to CC without a license at all, without even having to demonstrate that you know where the safety switch is. This is a couple of exceptions, though. I'm one of them. I am not allowed to carry a firearm when I am on patrol duty with the Sheriff Auxiliary Volunteers. Oh, and felons's can't either.

I began to suspect that this was perhaps poor planning, when I saw a guy and his wife at a gun shop, looking for a gun for her, and telling the clerk that she had just got her CC license. At the time, she had her rifle butt on the floor,, and was resting her chin on her crossed arms over the barrel. If it had gone off, it would have gone through her arms, chin, brain, and out of the top of her head.

I've seen far too many people treating firearms like toys and even experts make stupid mistakes when handling firearms, myself included (the stupid mistake part).
One idiot in a gun store was looking at firearms and aiming at other people in the store. Thankfully the employee was watching, took the AR back and told the guy he would have to take their safety class before he could handle another weapon in that store and to come back only when he was ready to take the safety class. The idiot protested that it wasn't loaded and was escorted out of the store after being advised a firearm is always considered loaded.
I've seen people get drunk and decide they wanted to go shooting, we always put an end to that moronic idea. People at ranges waving their firearm all over, reenactments where someone gets caught up in the moment and fires his (powder only) musket, sidearm directly at their "adversary" just a couple of feet away. Had that happen to me though the guy who did it freaked when he realized what he had done, luckily I had been able to turn away from the muzzle blast and only my (clothed) arm was hit by burning powder.
He didn't stop apologizing all weekend long.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself? There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......

Definitely something to look into.........

Do you know what to do if you are involved in a shooting?

Good luck..carry smart.....

Good advice. Most people, including gun grabbers think that CC is easy. They don't realize that you are governed by many regulations and laws you have to consider before you pull a gun or even shoot somebody. That when the police arrive you will surrender your gun and you will more than likely be booked. That you will have to appear before a judge for administrative justice and possible charges by a prosecutor. It's for your protection as a licensed gun carrier. The judge will either recommend you get a lawyer or based on the incident, will find you not guilty.
All these legalities will be taught in CC class.

It is tough to get a CC here in AZ. You drive up, fill out a form, and give them $25. Not just anybody in AZ has $25.

Kansas has "Constitutional Carry: - as do 8 other states. You need NOTHING to carry either open or concealed. As long as you aren't a felon - and a citizen - you're good to go. Just as it should be.

 

[westwall]

Should have the CC permit within 90 days.

AVG-Wife and I have a new hobby!

Welcome to the club!

 

[AVG-JOE]

Thanks, westwall!

This has been an interesting education. Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.

I still favor national standards for carry permits and hardware limits... it sucks that my carry permit isn't recognized by Washington, Oregon and a few other states that I'm likely to spend time in, and it sucks that the 17 round clip that came standard with my weapon from its American manufacturer could get me jail time in some U.S. localities. It sucks even more that the lack of reciprocity between states is more political than practical.

Baby steps, I suppose.... As it should, ultimate responsibility remains in the hands of the gun owner.

 

[westwall]

Thanks, westwall!

This has been an interesting education. Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.

I still favor national standards for carry permits and hardware limits... it sucks that my carry permit isn't recognized by Washington, Oregon and a few other states that I'm likely to spend time in, and it sucks that the 17 round clip that came standard with my weapon from its American manufacturer could get me jail time in some U.S. localities. It sucks even more that the lack of reciprocity between states is more political than practical.

Baby steps, I suppose.... As it should, ultimate responsibility remains in the hands of the gun owner.

Indeed they are. Just imagine, when I was first carrying concealed MOST states didn't allow the AVG-JOE to carry. Those permits were available to only the rich and famous. We have made major advances since those dark days. Like I said, welcome to the club, and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Divine Wind]

Yup. I just purchased my very first firearm. I get to pick it up in 3 days.

Made in America, of course

An excellent first firearm. No one can go wrong with a Ruger.

 

[Divine Wind]

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.

Nothing wrong with a .38 for defense. +P JHPs juice it up a bit. I have a variety of 9mms and my wife likes shooting a few, but she prefers a Taurus 85PFS for her nightstand. Yes, with +P JHPs.

For CC, I have a S&W MP Shield 9mm, but my nightstand carries a Springfield Armory 1911A1 .45ACP

 

[Hossfly]

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.

Nothing wrong with a .38 for defense. +P JHPs juice it up a bit. I have a variety of 9mms and my wife likes shooting a few, but she prefers a Taurus 85PFS for her nightstand. Yes, with +P JHPs.

For CC, I have a S&W MP Shield 9mm, but my nightstand carries a Springfield Armory 1911A1 .45ACP

 

[Crixus]

Thanks, westwall!

This has been an interesting education. Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.

I still favor national standards for carry permits and hardware limits... it sucks that my carry permit isn't recognized by Washington, Oregon and a few other states that I'm likely to spend time in, and it sucks that the 17 round clip that came standard with my weapon from its American manufacturer could get me jail time in some U.S. localities. It sucks even more that the lack of reciprocity between states is more political than practical.

Baby steps, I suppose.... As it should, ultimate responsibility remains in the hands of the gun owner.

Since you bought a 9mm your ammo options are vast and can be very cheap. If it were me, I would buy some bulk 147gr FMJ and shoot it in. This is typically sold in bulk box's of 250 or more rounds. It sounds excessive, but if the bug takes you will shoot allot. Since you will CCW, put allot of time and effort into selection of a holster. The P series from Ruger are indeed thick chunks of goodness, they are not real comfortable (to me) in the concealed carry department. I settled on a Yaqui slide for my little belt gun. It has the benefit of also fitting my big belt gun, but you do have to remember you need longer shirt tails to cover it completely. I have gotten to where I buy shirts from Duluth trading Co. that and a good belt will go a long way to make that a comfortable gun to carry.

Back to ammo, it cost a bit more, but Freedom Munitions is where I buy my good ammo.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Thanks for the tip - online purchasing of ammo in bulk is beyond done and in to the realm of 'experienced'

And 9mm was my chosen "sleep better at night number" before I bought my first weapon..... I like the price and availability of 9mm ammo