Attributes of statehood

[georgephillip]

Is Wiki correct?

"Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreement.

"The borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories are still in dispute and subject to final status agreements.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Is Wiki correct?

"Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreement.

"The borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories are still in dispute and subject to final status agreements.

From the discussion page:

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia.

Almost EVERYBODY cited as a reference in this artice is an Israeli. With conflicts involving at least 4 countries, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan, how credible is an article that uses as sources just ONE group's opinions?

Talk:Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That should answer your question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Is Wiki correct?

"Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreement.

"The borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories are still in dispute and subject to final status agreements.

From the discussion page:

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia.

Almost EVERYBODY cited as a reference in this artice is an Israeli. With conflicts involving at least 4 countries, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan, how credible is an article that uses as sources just ONE group's opinions?

Talk:Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That should answer your question.

Example:

WikiProject Israel

Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognised as part of the peace treaties with those countries,

Actual text of the agreement.

Article I The state of war between the Parties will be terminated and peace will be established between them upon the exchange of instruments of ratification of this Treaty. Israel will withdraw all its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai behind the international boundary between Egypt and mandated Palestine,

The Avalon Project : Israel-Egypt Treaty

See the difference?

 

[georgephillip]

"Coddled in their own narrative in which they are the eternal victims, Israelis are not accustomed to finding themselves the focus of international opprobrium.

"And they see in it a mortal threat."

Back in the day when the US and British government agreed with Pretoria that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, isolating South African through sanctions and boycotts was not something "Maggie" Thatcher or the Gipper wanted any part of.

It required grass roots organizing in churches, mosques, labor unions and university campuses to grow a force powerful enough to make the corporate whores on both sides of the Atlantic distance themselves from a regime they had viewed sympathetically.

Since Operation Cast Lead which slaughtered 1,417 Palestinians (compared with 13 Israelis, 4 by "friendly fire") prescient Jews are seeing history repeat.

"In a remarkable interview last November, the Israeli prime minister
Ehud Olmert cautioned that unless it could achieve a two-state solution
quickly, Israel would 'face a South African-style struggle for equal
voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is
finished'.

"The reason, he said, was that Israel would be
internationally isolated. “The Jewish organisations, which are our
power base in America, will be the first to come out against us because
they will say they cannot support a state that does not support
democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents.”

And Mandela wins again.

Worried about apartheid

 

[P F Tinmore]

I hear that those 4 friendly fire soldiers were actually captured. Israel fired rockets on them before they could be taken underground.

For Israel 4 dead soldiers is no big deal, but 4 more Shalits would be a disaster.

 

[The Rabbi]

I hear that those 4 friendly fire soldiers were actually captured. Israel fired rockets on them before they could be taken underground.

For Israel 4 dead soldiers is no big deal, but 4 more Shalits would be a disaster.

You need to be medicated.

 

[hipeter924]

"Coddled in their own narrative in which they are the eternal victims, Israelis are not accustomed to finding themselves the focus of international opprobrium.

"And they see in it a mortal threat."

Back in the day when the US and British government agreed with Pretoria that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, isolating South African through sanctions and boycotts was not something "Maggie" Thatcher or the Gipper wanted any part of.

It required grass roots organizing in churches, mosques, labor unions and university campuses to grow a force powerful enough to make the corporate whores on both sides of the Atlantic distance themselves from a regime they had viewed sympathetically.

Since Operation Cast Lead which slaughtered 1,417 Palestinians (compared with 13 Israelis, 4 by "friendly fire") prescient Jews are seeing history repeat.

"In a remarkable interview last November, the Israeli prime minister
Ehud Olmert cautioned that unless it could achieve a two-state solution
quickly, Israel would 'face a South African-style struggle for equal
voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is
finished'.

"The reason, he said, was that Israel would be
internationally isolated. “The Jewish organisations, which are our
power base in America, will be the first to come out against us because
they will say they cannot support a state that does not support
democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents.”

And Mandela wins again.

Worried about apartheid

Oh Mandela, the fruits of Mandela's post Apartheid Africa. Of course he did nothing as apartheid still exists in South Africa (economic apartheid).

Supporting Zimbabwe:

South Africa’s Support for Zimbabwe Seems to Wane

By MIKE NIZZA

President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, right, and President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa in Harare, Zimbabwe on Saturday. (Photo: Howard Burditt/Reuters)
Updated Scroll for today’s comments from Zimbabwe’s opposition leader
This morning’s urging from abroad for President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe contained familiar words almost three weeks after an election — “release the results as a matter of urgency” — but the sender this time was South Africa, his neighbor to the south.
South African officials are often seen as handling Mr. Mugabe with kid gloves, but that impression was brought out in sharp relief over the weekend when President Thabo Mbeki visited Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe.
After weeks of media coverage reporting a situation that very much looked like a crisis for democracy — not to mention the country’s devastated economy — a headline shot around the world via Reuters: No crisis in Zimbabwe, Mbeki says.
Mr. Mbeki defended his “quiet diplomacy” approach in a BBC interview, saying “the solution to the problem of Zimbabwe lies in the hands of the people of Zimbabwe.” But the people’s votes were exactly what seemed to be at stake, according to several important world leaders on Wednesday:

“No one thinks, having seen the results at polling stations, that President Mugabe has won this election,” [Prime Minister Gordon Brown of Britain] said. “A stolen election would not be a democratic election at all.”
And the American ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, said, “We think it’s very important that the election not be stolen, that the results are released in a way that has credibility and reflects the will of the people of Zimbabwe.”
​

That apparent contradiction between the South African government’s attitude and the Western view left a conservative blogger spouting a handful of unkind words: “Thabo Mbeki Makes No Sense.”
With his words sparking so much criticism, Mr. Mbeki apparently chose silence on Wednesday as he sat in a prominent seat — as it happens, he is also this month’s president of the United Nations Security Council. On Wednesday, he did not mention Zimbabwe during a day-long Council session, as particularly strong talk was heard from others.
Even the editorial page of The Washington Post took notice this week, asserting that “Mr. Mbeki’s perverse and immoral policy is reaching its nadir.” If that was indeed a low point, today’s news could prove to be the first sign of a rebound for Mr. Mbeki’s reputation.
Update, 12:40 p.m. Today’s move by Mr. Mbeki’s government was apparently not enough to win over Zimbabwe’s opposition leader, who wants him to resign as a mediator in the election dispute. From Agence France-Presse:

“We want to thank President Mbeki for all of his efforts but President Mbeki needs to be relieved of his duties,” Morgan Tsvangirai told reporters in Johannesburg.
[...]“I made a specific request to President Mwanawasa to say he needs to lead a new initiative, an initiative that will expand beyond that of Mr Mbeki.”


South Africa's Support for Zimbabwe Seems to Wane - NYTimes.com

​

Poverty and corruption:

OVERVIEW
GOOD: South Africa boast one of the best democracies in the world. Leaders can be peacefully removed.
GOOD: Fully developed infra-structure (services, internet, roads, banks, etc)
GOOD: Unlike the deeply colonial mentality of Kenya, South African Africans speak their languages and the majority have African names.
BAD EQUALITY: In the "locations" aka townships the only adverts you will find are alcohol and HIV related. The bulk of the alcohol and servant role adverts uses African actors, while the bulk of other adverts still majority White.
BAD DEBATE: Some people place a taboo on discussing race, so that the person challenging racial injustices is labeled "racist." All the while the person who wants people to forget about race is busy profiting from their race based privileges.The Nelson Mandela fund is a classic example, they list all the ills of South Africa and escape the issue of racial dominance.
BAD EQUALITY: It is a society of the worst cases of minority white race privilege are fully fledged and unchecked.
BAD GREED: The so-called Blacks in South Africa are ridiculously materialistic to the point of destruction. They would stupidly invest more money in a car than their own house. It is very common for them to drive the lastest cars while deeply indebted to the bank and living in houses worth a 1/4 of the value of the car. All in the name of impressing their peers. They amass 4*4 while never doing off-road driving.
BAD AGENCY: Despite Whites being the minority they linguistically try to colonialize terms such as African to absorb native claim to South Africa. They remain culturally, ethnically, linguistically, genetically, biologically European. They use "African" when it suits their interest.
BAD MORALS: South Africa the biggest moral crisis in Africa (promiscuity, crime, drugs, rape). The hypocrisy is demonstrated in having a moral regeneration program while the leader Jacob Zuma is deeply immoral.
BAD MEDIA: Television is deeply racist with Africans being used primarily for buffoonery and alcoholic adverts (which constitute 80% of prime time television adverts). Any product associated privilege products; holidays, luxury, etc. exclusively White faces to market the products BAD: A high intolerance and brutal violence against poor African nationals (Xenophobia). The same nationals who hosted exiled South Africans during apartheid.
BAD ECONOMICS: 90% of South African arable land is white-owned. The government set a target of transferring 30% (i.e. 82 million hectares) to African farmers by 2014. So far, only 5% has been transferred. From the 5% of redistributed land, 90% is now unused.
BAD CORRUPTION: Transparency is better than Nigeria. But corruption is inbreed, with charity organizations such as Edmund Mhlongo exploiting the people. Watch dogs such as Natal Law Society present the illusion of policing legal firms but are a self-serving organization to give the illusion of due process. These organizations have no accountability and have no record of servicing the public interest.
BAD EQUALITY: There is a personality among the Africans of deep shortsightedness, where they are smart for pennies but stupid for dollars. Trickery at the most trivial levels is common, causes devastation at the expense of the bigger future.
BEE: A theoretically well structured scheme which in practice produces an elite of poorly skilled poorly adept Africans (Blacks) who do little to improve quality or propagate equality. Given rise to a small economic middle
SOUTH AFRICA - Report on economic apartheid

 

[GHook93]

"Coddled in their own narrative in which they are the eternal victims, Israelis are not accustomed to finding themselves the focus of international opprobrium.

"And they see in it a mortal threat."

Back in the day when the US and British government agreed with Pretoria that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, isolating South African through sanctions and boycotts was not something "Maggie" Thatcher or the Gipper wanted any part of.

It required grass roots organizing in churches, mosques, labor unions and university campuses to grow a force powerful enough to make the corporate whores on both sides of the Atlantic distance themselves from a regime they had viewed sympathetically.

Since Operation Cast Lead which slaughtered 1,417 Palestinians (compared with 13 Israelis, 4 by "friendly fire") prescient Jews are seeing history repeat.

"In a remarkable interview last November, the Israeli prime minister
Ehud Olmert cautioned that unless it could achieve a two-state solution
quickly, Israel would 'face a South African-style struggle for equal
voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is
finished'.

"The reason, he said, was that Israel would be
internationally isolated. “The Jewish organisations, which are our
power base in America, will be the first to come out against us because
they will say they cannot support a state that does not support
democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents.”

And Mandela wins again.

Worried about apartheid

You must be kidding!!! Every douche bag liberal loves to point to South Africa and Mandela as the beacon of good vs evil. Let's exam.

(1) Apartheid is alive and well in South Africa! However it is now 10 times worse. Whites are treated worse than blacks under apartheid. Yet the international news ignores it because they want to continue the myth of how great Mandela was.
(2) SA created affirmative action, which is 100 fold more aggressive than what we have in America, for the MAJORITY!!! AA is controversial for the minority, but its outright oppression for the majority.
(3) While White apartheid was wrong, South Africa went from the sole first world country in Africa to one of the worst economies in the world!!!
(4) Again while white apartheid was wrong, Blacks are more impoverished now then under white apartheid.
(5) White farmers are being raped, murdered and their farms are systematically being stolen and the government is doing nothing to stop it.
(6) South Africa is the rape, AIDS, child rape, BABY rape and murder capital of the world!

If the Palestinians strive to be South Africa let them!