Attack On The Middle Class

[EdwardBaiamonte]

wrong, unions are not what they used to be because they drove entire industries off shore and wrecked the economy. But, pay might be higher today if not for all the other liberal creepy stuff like deficits, taxes, and 30 million illegals, plus, the liberal war on the schools families and religions rendering many Americans unfit for work.

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

The fact that the near death of unions has not REVERSED the flow of jobs to china and mexico, greatly undermines blaming the unions.


I blame predatory trade policies of China and Mexico.

unions are like a cancer everyone knows that they can come back at any moment. When auto companies come to America they come to places where there are no unions. Unions need to be killed completely and totally and then we will be in much much better shape

Yet despite auto companies going to those no union places, we are still getting our asses handed to us on Trade Balance ever year, worse and worse.


That is a fact that Free Traders, need to explain.


Because to me, it looks like blaming the Unions, has been debunked.

Get rid of liberal unions liberal taxes liberal regulations 30 million illegals and we will have a freeer market and a huge increase in our competitiveness in manufacturing

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

SealyBobo, many people advocate USA trade that's (what they consider to be) “fair” and “equitable”. They envision the USA granting or denying foreign nations access to our domestic markets based upon our opinions regarding their individual internal conditions in comparison to our own nation's wage rates and/or working and living conditions. Additionally, there are those that believe our trade policy should further support global goals such as “human rights” and our entire planet's natural environment.

I'm among those amiable to such laudable goals and I'm also among the proponents of the trade policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates

Import Certificate policy would (hopefully) not undermine those purposes, I don't believe the Import Certificate proposal can or should be drafted for the expressed purpose of advancing those policies. It is sufficiently challenging that the proposed policy's an attempt to positively contribute toward increasing USA's numbers of jobs, the purchasing power of our median wage, and thus increasing our individuals' and families' median qualities of life.

We cannot help others if we do not first take sufficient care of ourselves. We cannot presume to instruct or lead others if our governments and our nation's practices do not serve as good examples.

Respectfully, Supposn

Obviously our standard of living is far higher when we have free trade between individuals and between countries. Liberalism is so stupid that it would force every person to make everything he consumed all by himself.

You been to the Rust Belt recently? The standard of living is not higher. It is lower.


You hear of this?

Why the white middle class is dying faster, explained in 6 charts


"n 2015, a blockbuster study came to a surprising conclusion: Middle-aged white Americans are dying younger for the first time in decades, despite positive life expectancy trends in other wealthy countries and other segments of the US population.

The research, by Princeton University’s Anne Case and Angus Deaton, highlighted the links between economic struggles, suicides, and alcohol and drug overdoses."



"white people ages 45 through 54, particularly those with low levels of education.

Along with worsening job prospects over the past several decades, this group has seen their chances of a stable marriage and family decline, along with their overall health. To manage their despair about the gap between their hopes and what’s come of their lives, they’ve often turned to drugs, alcohol, and suicide."

So you want to end the deadly liberal policies that have so thoroughly attacked Americans ?

 

[Correll]

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

The fact that the near death of unions has not REVERSED the flow of jobs to china and mexico, greatly undermines blaming the unions.


I blame predatory trade policies of China and Mexico.

unions are like a cancer everyone knows that they can come back at any moment. When auto companies come to America they come to places where there are no unions. Unions need to be killed completely and totally and then we will be in much much better shape

Yet despite auto companies going to those no union places, we are still getting our asses handed to us on Trade Balance ever year, worse and worse.


That is a fact that Free Traders, need to explain.


Because to me, it looks like blaming the Unions, has been debunked.

Get rid of liberal unions liberal taxes liberal regulations 30 million illegals and we will have a freeer market and a huge increase in our competitiveness in manufacturing

You don't get to keep blaming Unions, after the last thirty years.


EUROPE has plenty of taxes and regulations and yet it still fucking US on trade.


This is about trade policy. They have predatory trade policies and we are the world's bitch.


Yes, deport all the illegals. That is obviously called for.

 

[Correll]

SealyBobo, many people advocate USA trade that's (what they consider to be) “fair” and “equitable”. They envision the USA granting or denying foreign nations access to our domestic markets based upon our opinions regarding their individual internal conditions in comparison to our own nation's wage rates and/or working and living conditions. Additionally, there are those that believe our trade policy should further support global goals such as “human rights” and our entire planet's natural environment.

I'm among those amiable to such laudable goals and I'm also among the proponents of the trade policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates

Import Certificate policy would (hopefully) not undermine those purposes, I don't believe the Import Certificate proposal can or should be drafted for the expressed purpose of advancing those policies. It is sufficiently challenging that the proposed policy's an attempt to positively contribute toward increasing USA's numbers of jobs, the purchasing power of our median wage, and thus increasing our individuals' and families' median qualities of life.

We cannot help others if we do not first take sufficient care of ourselves. We cannot presume to instruct or lead others if our governments and our nation's practices do not serve as good examples.

Respectfully, Supposn

Obviously our standard of living is far higher when we have free trade between individuals and between countries. Liberalism is so stupid that it would force every person to make everything he consumed all by himself.

You been to the Rust Belt recently? The standard of living is not higher. It is lower.


You hear of this?

Why the white middle class is dying faster, explained in 6 charts


"n 2015, a blockbuster study came to a surprising conclusion: Middle-aged white Americans are dying younger for the first time in decades, despite positive life expectancy trends in other wealthy countries and other segments of the US population.

The research, by Princeton University’s Anne Case and Angus Deaton, highlighted the links between economic struggles, suicides, and alcohol and drug overdoses."



"white people ages 45 through 54, particularly those with low levels of education.

Along with worsening job prospects over the past several decades, this group has seen their chances of a stable marriage and family decline, along with their overall health. To manage their despair about the gap between their hopes and what’s come of their lives, they’ve often turned to drugs, alcohol, and suicide."

So you want to end the deadly liberal policies that have so thoroughly attacked Americans ?

I want to end liberal AND conservatives policies that have so thoroughly attacked Americans.


I certainly am happy to end liberal policies that are harmful to Americans.


BUT, I have to take ownership of the utter failure of "Free Trade" as a policy and the utter failure of the GOP to do anything to secure our borders, AND to address the failure of LEGAL immigration, and more.

 

[Tehon]

You know how people aren't making what they used to? Because unions aren't what they used to be.

wrong, unions are not what they used to be because they drove entire industries off shore and wrecked the economy. But, pay might be higher today if not for all the other liberal creepy stuff like deficits, taxes, and 30 million illegals, plus, the liberal war on the schools families and religions rendering many Americans unfit for work.

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

Buyer's remorse?
You got your free market wages.

We don’t have free market wages we have the highest corporate taxes in the world we have the greatest regulations in the world we haves you 30 million illegals taking our jobs and driving wages down and we have stupid stupid liberals still wanting to open our borders and bring in 30 million more illegal liberal voters

30 million illegals taking our jobs is the free market.

Are you having buyer's remorse?

 

[sealybobo]

You know how people aren't making what they used to? Because unions aren't what they used to be.

wrong, unions are not what they used to be because they drove entire industries off shore and wrecked the economy. But, pay might be higher today if not for all the other liberal creepy stuff like deficits, taxes, and 30 million illegals, plus, the liberal war on the schools families and religions rendering many Americans unfit for work.

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

Which are only where they are because unions exist. That you don’t understand

 

[sealybobo]

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

The fact that the near death of unions has not REVERSED the flow of jobs to china and mexico, greatly undermines blaming the unions.


I blame predatory trade policies of China and Mexico.

unions are like a cancer everyone knows that they can come back at any moment. When auto companies come to America they come to places where there are no unions. Unions need to be killed completely and totally and then we will be in much much better shape

Yet despite auto companies going to those no union places, we are still getting our asses handed to us on Trade Balance ever year, worse and worse.


That is a fact that Free Traders, need to explain.


Because to me, it looks like blaming the Unions, has been debunked.

Get rid of liberal unions liberal taxes liberal regulations 30 million illegals and we will have a freeer market and a huge increase in our competitiveness in manufacturing

Yea because the masses will be starving for work literally.

Let’s get rid of age requirements and 40 hour work weeks. Why make dummies go 13 years to school. 7 years of school then go work if you aren’t smart. Go apprentice

 

[sealybobo]

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

The fact that the near death of unions has not REVERSED the flow of jobs to china and mexico, greatly undermines blaming the unions.


I blame predatory trade policies of China and Mexico.

unions are like a cancer everyone knows that they can come back at any moment. When auto companies come to America they come to places where there are no unions. Unions need to be killed completely and totally and then we will be in much much better shape

Yet despite auto companies going to those no union places, we are still getting our asses handed to us on Trade Balance ever year, worse and worse.


That is a fact that Free Traders, need to explain.


Because to me, it looks like blaming the Unions, has been debunked.

Get rid of liberal unions liberal taxes liberal regulations 30 million illegals and we will have a freeer market and a huge increase in our competitiveness in manufacturing

You don't get to keep blaming Unions, after the last thirty years.


EUROPE has plenty of taxes and regulations and yet it still fucking US on trade.


This is about trade policy. They have predatory trade policies and we are the world's bitch.


Yes, deport all the illegals. That is obviously called for.

If I were at all on the fence I could easily see giving trump a second term. But he did and said so many things that cross my red line that he has lost me.

And many poor and middle class aren’t feeling that trump has done anything for them.

Not to mention we are energized and hopefully will get out the vote.

I am doing great. I don’t need most liberal programs. Maybe I’ll need my social security and Medicare and unemployment insurance.

Then I think about all the other deal breakers like another conservative on the Supreme Court.

Trump must go.

He did some good I’ll give you that

 

[sealybobo]

wrong, unions are not what they used to be because they drove entire industries off shore and wrecked the economy. But, pay might be higher today if not for all the other liberal creepy stuff like deficits, taxes, and 30 million illegals, plus, the liberal war on the schools families and religions rendering many Americans unfit for work.

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

Buyer's remorse?
You got your free market wages.

We don’t have free market wages we have the highest corporate taxes in the world we have the greatest regulations in the world we haves you 30 million illegals taking our jobs and driving wages down and we have stupid stupid liberals still wanting to open our borders and bring in 30 million more illegal liberal voters

30 million illegals taking our jobs is the free market.

Are you having buyer's remorse?

I don’t hate it that trumps deporting illegals. I love it

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I understand their high wages drove jobs to china and mexico true

Yes liberal union wages drove millions of jobs to China and Mexico. We would’ve been far far better off with Republican free-market wages.

Buyer's remorse?
You got your free market wages.

We don’t have free market wages we have the highest corporate taxes in the world we have the greatest regulations in the world we haves you 30 million illegals taking our jobs and driving wages down and we have stupid stupid liberals still wanting to open our borders and bring in 30 million more illegal liberal voters

30 million illegals taking our jobs is the free market.

Are you having buyer's remorse?

I don’t hate it that trumps deporting illegals. I love it

liberals think deporting illegals who take our jobs and bid down our wages is wonderful and opposition is racist! Nancy Pelosi thinks Hispanics have more beautiful skin than whites.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

He did some good I’ll give you that

3.9% unemployment, best ever for blacks and women. Probably saved world from nuclear war like Reagan did. Some good?

 

[Muhammed]

There is nothing "normal" about a nation having a middle class, even though it is vital to the survival of democracy.
As twenty-three years of conservative economic policies have now shown millions of Americans, what's "normal" in a "free and unfettered" economy is the rapid evolution of a small but fabulously wealthy ownership class, and a large but poor working class. If a nation wants a middle class, it must define it, desire it, and work to both create and keep it.
This is because a middle class is the creation of government participation (conservatives call it "interference") in the marketplace, by determining the rules of the game.
"Those seeking profits," Jefferson wrote, "were they given total freedom, would not be the ones to trust to keep government pure and our rights secure. Indeed, it has always been those seeking wealth who were the source of corruption in government.
As Jefferson realized, with no government "interference" by setting the rules of the game of business and fair taxation, there will be no middle class.
Conservatives believe what business does is business's business, and government should keep its nose out of it.
As the Wall Street Journal noted in 1997, Alan Greenspan sees one of his main jobs as being to maintain a high enough level of "worker insecurity" that employees won't demand pay raises and benefits increases, thus provoking "wage inflation." ("CEO inflation" is fine)
Thomas Jefferson -- if the government doesn't actively participate in regulating how the game of business is played, the middle class would vanish.
And to stimulate that domestic economy, we instituted progressive taxation, which gave workers more to spend, thus stimulating demand for more goods and services.
The elite cons who seem to truly believe that a CEO actually works 500 times harder than his employees (or is 500 times smarter).
But history shows that the third pillar of creating a middle class requires a modest control of how wealth is distributed. The richest, who benefit the most from our society, pay proportionately more, so the middle class can have home interest deductions, child tax credits, free public education, and health care. Progressive taxation has helped create every middle class in the First World, and without it the middle class will vanish (to Steve Forbes delight, apparently).
But as president Reagan cut the top tax rate for billionaires from 70 percent to 28 percent, while effectively raising taxes on working people via the payroll tax and using inflation against a non-indexed tax system. It was another hit to the already-beginning-to-shrink middle class, to be followed by more "tax cut" bludgeons during the first three years of the W. Bush administration.
Nonetheless, a never-ending parade of conservative economists and commentators march through our living rooms daily via radio and TV, assuring us that it is good for American workers to go along with the Wal-Martization of America, accept lower pay and few benefits, and fear for their health, so multinational corporations can "level the playing field" for labor.
Unless we repeal Taft-Hartley; start enforcing the Sherman act, provide free education for Americans (and not just Iraqis); abandon WTO/GATT and NAFTA; restore progressive taxation (including on dividend income); force corporations to pay their fair share; and go back to selective tariffs to protect domestic industries and stop offshoring to explicitly bring home the ability for us to make our own clothes, furniture, autos, and electronics, the conservatives will have won and the middle class -- and, thus, democracy -- will lose.
The middle class is not a "normal" thing: it's just the core that holds together democracy and an
ThomHartmann.com - Scrooge & Marley, Inc. - The True Conservative Agenda

Here it is you stupid Republican sonofabitches! Me and Tom hartmann telling you NAFTA was a problem back in 2008. What were you assholes saying back then?

And then idiot assholes like you supported Obama and the Democrats, who went on to mercilessly attack the middle class when they took power.

 

[Muhammed]

He did some good I’ll give you that

3.9% unemployment, best ever for blacks and women. Probably saved world from nuclear war like Reagan did. Some good?

3.2% for adult women. Fucking amazing.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

30 million illegals taking our jobs is the free market.

wrong of course, a free market is free when economic transactions within a country are freely made with little govt interference, not when 10's of millions are free to illegally cross your border to take your job..

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is nothing "normal" about a nation having a middle class, even though it is vital to the survival of democracy.
As twenty-three years of conservative economic policies have now shown millions of Americans, what's "normal" in a "free and unfettered" economy is the rapid evolution of a small but fabulously wealthy ownership class, and a large but poor working class. If a nation wants a middle class, it must define it, desire it, and work to both create and keep it.
This is because a middle class is the creation of government participation (conservatives call it "interference") in the marketplace, by determining the rules of the game.
"Those seeking profits," Jefferson wrote, "were they given total freedom, would not be the ones to trust to keep government pure and our rights secure. Indeed, it has always been those seeking wealth who were the source of corruption in government.
As Jefferson realized, with no government "interference" by setting the rules of the game of business and fair taxation, there will be no middle class.
Conservatives believe what business does is business's business, and government should keep its nose out of it.
As the Wall Street Journal noted in 1997, Alan Greenspan sees one of his main jobs as being to maintain a high enough level of "worker insecurity" that employees won't demand pay raises and benefits increases, thus provoking "wage inflation." ("CEO inflation" is fine)
Thomas Jefferson -- if the government doesn't actively participate in regulating how the game of business is played, the middle class would vanish.
And to stimulate that domestic economy, we instituted progressive taxation, which gave workers more to spend, thus stimulating demand for more goods and services.
The elite cons who seem to truly believe that a CEO actually works 500 times harder than his employees (or is 500 times smarter).
But history shows that the third pillar of creating a middle class requires a modest control of how wealth is distributed. The richest, who benefit the most from our society, pay proportionately more, so the middle class can have home interest deductions, child tax credits, free public education, and health care. Progressive taxation has helped create every middle class in the First World, and without it the middle class will vanish (to Steve Forbes delight, apparently).
But as president Reagan cut the top tax rate for billionaires from 70 percent to 28 percent, while effectively raising taxes on working people via the payroll tax and using inflation against a non-indexed tax system. It was another hit to the already-beginning-to-shrink middle class, to be followed by more "tax cut" bludgeons during the first three years of the W. Bush administration.
Nonetheless, a never-ending parade of conservative economists and commentators march through our living rooms daily via radio and TV, assuring us that it is good for American workers to go along with the Wal-Martization of America, accept lower pay and few benefits, and fear for their health, so multinational corporations can "level the playing field" for labor.
Unless we repeal Taft-Hartley; start enforcing the Sherman act, provide free education for Americans (and not just Iraqis); abandon WTO/GATT and NAFTA; restore progressive taxation (including on dividend income); force corporations to pay their fair share; and go back to selective tariffs to protect domestic industries and stop offshoring to explicitly bring home the ability for us to make our own clothes, furniture, autos, and electronics, the conservatives will have won and the middle class -- and, thus, democracy -- will lose.
The middle class is not a "normal" thing: it's just the core that holds together democracy and an
ThomHartmann.com - Scrooge & Marley, Inc. - The True Conservative Agenda

Here it is you stupid Republican sonofabitches! Me and Tom hartmann telling you NAFTA was a problem back in 2008. What were you assholes saying back then?

free trade between nations and individuals is not a problem. If you had to make everything you consumed you would starve. Do you understand?

 

[sealybobo]

He did some good I’ll give you that

3.9% unemployment, best ever for blacks and women. Probably saved world from nuclear war like Reagan did. Some good?

Thanks obama. You didn’t believe the unemployment number until trump won. So fuck you and you’re welcome for that low unemployment number.

 

[sealybobo]

He did some good I’ll give you that

3.9% unemployment, best ever for blacks and women. Probably saved world from nuclear war like Reagan did. Some good?

3.2% for adult women. Fucking amazing.

What about all the people not being counted? You guys asked that question in 2015 but you don’t ask it now.

Trumps adding 100,000 jobs a month. About the same or less than Obama’s monthly numbers. He promised much better.

Obama got those numbers without giving away massive tax breaks.

 

[Tehon]

30 million illegals taking our jobs is the free market.

wrong of course, a free market is free when economic transactions within a country are freely made with little govt interference, not when 10's of millions are free to illegally cross your border to take your job..

There is no government interference when Americans freely support companies that employ illegal workers. If Americans found it objectionable then the market would correct the problem. Isn't that right?

 

[Correll]

The fact that the near death of unions has not REVERSED the flow of jobs to china and mexico, greatly undermines blaming the unions.


I blame predatory trade policies of China and Mexico.

unions are like a cancer everyone knows that they can come back at any moment. When auto companies come to America they come to places where there are no unions. Unions need to be killed completely and totally and then we will be in much much better shape

Yet despite auto companies going to those no union places, we are still getting our asses handed to us on Trade Balance ever year, worse and worse.


That is a fact that Free Traders, need to explain.


Because to me, it looks like blaming the Unions, has been debunked.

Get rid of liberal unions liberal taxes liberal regulations 30 million illegals and we will have a freeer market and a huge increase in our competitiveness in manufacturing

You don't get to keep blaming Unions, after the last thirty years.


EUROPE has plenty of taxes and regulations and yet it still fucking US on trade.


This is about trade policy. They have predatory trade policies and we are the world's bitch.


Yes, deport all the illegals. That is obviously called for.

If I were at all on the fence I could easily see giving trump a second term. But he did and said so many things that cross my red line that he has lost me.

And many poor and middle class aren’t feeling that trump has done anything for them.

Not to mention we are energized and hopefully will get out the vote.

I am doing great. I don’t need most liberal programs. Maybe I’ll need my social security and Medicare and unemployment insurance.

Then I think about all the other deal breakers like another conservative on the Supreme Court.

Trump must go.

He did some good I’ll give you that

THe impact of deporting illegals is just beginning to be felt.

I keep hearing hints of movement on trade discussions. Any change to the good on Trade Policy could have tremendous effects for the poor and middle class.

Hell, I've been hearing of positive effects from him just talking about it. If he actually does something, imo, we will see a BOOM.


I'm not sure what a conservative on the Court scares you.


Don't forget the power of INCUMBENCY. It is hard to beat an incumbent in this country.


I'm thinking it is likely you will get to see TWO terms of Trump to judge him on, I just worry if the dems do well in the mid terms that they might do something really stupid.


LIke actually impeach him.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If Americans found it objectionable then the market would correct the problem. Isn't that right?

doubtful. Friedman referred to neighborhood effects. NY company pollutes local or neighborhood water but sells products in CA. or China where consumers don't know about local water pollution.