Atrocities and wives and girlfriends

[nt250]

What's with Vietnam veterans and the stories they tell their wives and girlfriends about what they did in Vietnam?

I'm asking because today, again, I was told by the wife of a Vietnam vet that he committed horrible acts while over there.

This is the fifth time I've had a woman who claims to be a wife, or a woman whose boyfriend served in Vietnam, tell me that they committed atrocities.

I visited a lot of different websites during the last election, and I read a lot of posts by vets. Nothing I've ever read has ever convinced me it was wide spread or common.

So how come these liberal women are so quick to tell me it was and that their own men are the proof of it?

Are they exaggerating, or did the men exaggerate? Or lie?

 

[Said1]

Define atrocities.

 

[Mr. P]

What's with Vietnam veterans and the stories they tell their wives and girlfriends about what they did in Vietnam?

I'm asking because today, again, I was told by the wife of a Vietnam vet that he committed horrible acts while over there.

This is the fifth time I've had a woman who claims to be a wife, or a woman whose boyfriend served in Vietnam, tell me that they committed atrocities.

I visited a lot of different websites during the last election, and I read a lot of posts by vets. Nothing I've ever read has ever convinced me it was wide spread or common.

So how come these liberal women are so quick to tell me it was and that their own men are the proof of it?

Are they exaggerating, or did the men exaggerate? Or lie?

Probably both..

 

[nt250]

Define atrocities.

The context was Haditha. Someone started a thread about the report that was released that said there was evidence that Marines deliberately killed unarmed women and children. A female poster replied and said her husband had admitted to committing horrible acts when he was in Vietnam.

But it's not the first time I've had this happen. Back during the election, I posted about Kerry's claims of atrocities, and the same thing. Always a woman. Always her husband, or a former boyfriend.

 

[manu1959]

The context was Haditha. Someone started a thread about the report that was released that said there was evidence that Marines deliberately killed unarmed women and children. A female poster replied and said her husband had admitted to committing horrible acts when he was in Vietnam.

But it's not the first time I've had this happen. Back during the election, I posted about Kerry's claims of atrocities, and the same thing. Always a woman. Always her husband, or a former boyfriend.

people lie all the time....if this woman's husband committed war crimes then he should turn himself in at the Hague.

 

[nt250]

people lie all the time....if this woman's husband committed war crimes then he should turn himself in at the Hague.

Yeah, I know they lie. Just the fact that it's on a message board means I can't take anything they say at face value. I always try to remember that first and foremost. Anybody can claim to be anything.

I can understand why some people lie about serving the armed forces. What I don't get is why anyone would lie about committing heinous acts, or witnessing such things. And it's been documented that many have done just that.

Nobody, on any of the sites I visited, every said atrocities didn't happen.

I guess I just don't understand the mentality that would like to believe it was more common than it was, and is.

 

[manu1959]

Yeah, I know they lie. Just the fact that it's on a message board means I can't take anything they say at face value. I always try to remember that first and foremost. Anybody can claim to be anything.

I can understand why some people lie about serving the armed forces. What I don't get is why anyone would lie about committing heinous acts, or witnessing such things. And it's been documented that many have done just that.

Nobody, on any of the sites I visited, every said atrocities didn't happen.

I guess I just don't understand the mentality that would like to believe it was more common than it was, and is.

well, it is possible, not probabale, that this woman's husband killed children.....makes you wonder why she is with him and why she would "brag" about it.....i would surmise that it is not an american and it is not true....tell a lie often enough and it gains traction and plausability

 

[CSM]

I think some lie about military service, Vietnam, atrocities and what not because they think it will somehow enhance their image in the eyes of those they are trying to impress. I guess that is an obvious statement; I suspect a lot of such lies come at the spur of the moment. Hypothetically, if one wanted to get a date/sympathy from a hot lib chick like Janet Reno, he might just try to present himself as the poor tortured soul who committed atrocities in VN while on some sooper sekrit mission deep inside enemy lines.... I suspect that sometimes that works too.

Lets face it, it is still very PC to be anti-Viet Nam war and a great amount of fame can be garnered by taking that stance as the hero/anti-hero in that period. We have even had one or two politicians run for office on that precedent.

 

[Nienna]

Define atrocities.

Exactly. Duh, it's war. Atrocious acts are going to be committed. But, does that necessarily mean war crimes? Or slaughtering civilians?

 

[nt250]

I think some lie about military service, Vietnam, atrocities and what not because they think it will somehow enhance their image in the eyes of those they are trying to impress. I guess that is an obvious statement; I suspect a lot of such lies come at the spur of the moment. Hypothetically, if one wanted to get a date/sympathy from a hot lib chick like Janet Reno, he might just try to present himself as the poor tortured soul who committed atrocities in VN while on some sooper sekrit mission deep inside enemy lines.... I suspect that sometimes that works too.

Lets face it, it is still very PC to be anti-Viet Nam war and a great amount of fame can be garnered by taking that stance as the hero/anti-hero in that period. We have even had one or two politicians run for office on that precedent.

Yeah. Everytime it's happened, and it's been at least 5 times now, it's always in the context of defending their arguments. It's like they pull it out of their hat to make a point.

In this latest case, I find out that the man is dead. How despicable is that? Accuse your dead husband of admitting to committing war crimes and then act all indignant when called on it.

 

[CSM]

Yeah. Everytime it's happened, and it's been at least 5 times now, it's always in the context of defending their arguments. It's like they pull it out of their hat to make a point.

In this latest case, I find out that the man is dead. How despicable is that? Accuse your dead husband of admitting to committing war crimes and then act all indignant when called on it.

I guess it is human nature...though I fail to understand why anyone would think that fabrications like that are worth presenting...they eventually come to light and then undermine whatever it is you were trying to accomplish.

I suspect that 20 years from now we will hear many folks claiming they knew somebody who committed atrocities in Iraq or that they were in Iraq on Rambo style missions all the time.

 

[nt250]

I guess it is human nature...though I fail to understand why anyone would think that fabrications like that are worth presenting...they eventually come to light and then undermine whatever it is you were trying to accomplish.

I suspect that 20 years from now we will hear many folks claiming they knew somebody who committed atrocities in Iraq or that they were in Iraq on Rambo style missions all the time.

I can understand embellishing your record. Bragging about heroic acts that didn't happen. But I don't understand the mentality that would make up stories about doing horrible things. But I guess it's the same thing as people who confess to crimes they didn't commit.

I read a lot of veterans sites back during the election and I never read any that said atrocies didn't happen. They did, but were rare. But so many stories got told and re-told so many times that they became true even though most of them weren't true.

One of the stories I remember most was told in an email, I think it was to the Winter Soldier site, but I forget. It was from a GI who, on his first day in Vietnam, was told about this raid that took place in a village. American soldiers killed everything that move. Even the dogs and the cows. He'd never do that, he thought. A few weeks later he was sitting outside a mess tent when he heard the same story being told to a new batch of soliders, only this time it was HIS unit that had done it. He knew then that most of the stories weren't true.

Have you ever been to this site? Is it credible?

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/

 

[CSM]

I can understand embellishing your record. Bragging about heroic acts that didn't happen. But I don't understand the mentality that would make up stories about doing horrible things. But I guess it's the same thing as people who confess to crimes they didn't commit.

I read a lot of veterans sites back during the election and I never read any that said atrocies didn't happen. They did, but were rare. But so many stories got told and re-told so many times that they became true even though most of them weren't true.

One of the stories I remember most was told in an email, I think it was to the Winter Soldier site, but I forget. It was from a GI who, on his first day in Vietnam, was told about this raid that took place in a village. American soldiers killed everything that move. Even the dogs and the cows. He'd never do that, he thought. A few weeks later he was sitting outside a mess tent when he heard the same story being told to a new batch of soliders, only this time it was HIS unit that had done it. He knew then that most of the stories weren't true.

Have you ever been to this site? Is it credible?

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/

Link didn't work for me but I have never been to that site.

Funny you should mention that story because when I was there a lot of stories were going around like that. In retrospect, I think it is a lot like 'urban legend' in that stories get made up and then spread aropund. The details get changed (names, units, etc) and sometimes get posted as fact.

 

[CSM]

Got the link to work...interesting site. Cannot verify its credability as yet however.

 

[nt250]

Link didn't work for me but I have never been to that site.

Funny you should mention that story because when I was there a lot of stories were going around like that. In retrospect, I think it is a lot like 'urban legend' in that stories get made up and then spread aropund. The details get changed (names, units, etc) and sometimes get posted as fact.

If you're interested, you can type www.wintersoldier.com and it should take you to the site.

It's mainly about the Winter Soldier investigation in Detroit in 1971. It's an anti-Kerry site. But it's got links to his full "testimony" before the senate in 1971. It's also got a link to the full transcripts of the Winter Soldier "testimony" that he based his "they cut off ears speech" on.

Seems credible to me. It says that of the over 100 men who gave accounts, and that the CID could find, not a single one would cooperate. Some had never been in Vietnam at all, some had never been anywhere near where they claimed to be, and some claimed they'd never been to Detroit in their lives.

 

[CSM]

If you're interested, you can type www.wintersoldier.com and it should take you to the site.

It's mainly about the Winter Soldier investigation in Detroit in 1971. It's an anti-Kerry site. But it's got links to his full "testimony" before the senate in 1971. It's also got a link to the full transcripts of the Winter Soldier "testimony" that he based his "they cut off ears speech" on.

Seems credible to me. It says that of the over 100 men who gave accounts, and that the CID could find, not a single one would cooperate. Some had never been in Vietnam at all, some had never been anywhere near where they claimed to be, and some claimed they'd never been to Detroit in their lives.

Got it and thanks. At the risk of starting a big long debate in the wrong forum: The Swift Boat vets are closer to the truth than most folks give them credit for. You are discovering what MANY Viet Nam era vets have known all along. Much of the atrocity crap that Kerry, Fonda and others spewed was pure BS and they did it for personal gain. We are seeing the same thing currently from some US citizens and the terrorists have incorporated such propaganda as a key element in their strategic plans.

 

[nt250]

Got it and thanks. At the risk of starting a big long debate in the wrong forum: The Swift Boat vets are closer to the truth than most folks give them credit for. You are discovering what MANY Viet Nam era vets have known all along. Much of the atrocity crap that Kerry, Fonda and others spewed was pure BS and they did it for personal gain. We are seeing the same thing currently from some US citizens and the terrorists have incorporated such propaganda as a key element in their strategic plans.

I don't think it's the wrong forum at all. It's directly related to why I started this thread in the first place.

Some background:

I'm a 47 year old woman who only has vague memories of Vietnam. It didn't effect me at all. My older brother got some kind of medical waver. I have no idea what it was, I just remember my parents being relieved about it. We weren't rich. My father was a mail man.

I grew up and have lived in New England all my life. Most of it in Rhode Island, but I spent 5 years living in New Hampshire in the 1980's, and I've lived in Massachusetts for the last two years.

When John Kerry came up for re-election, there was always some veteran, or veterans group, that came out against him. It happened every time. I never really knew why. There was a columnist for the Providence Journal by the name of Bob Kerr, who was a Vietnam vet, and he hated Kerry. He wrote many columns about him. But I never paid all that much attention. Kerry was a Mass senator and I lived in RI. I figured it was mainly about his phony medals throw.

But when Kerry became the front runner for the Democratic nomination, after Dean crashed and burned in Iowa, I was seeing all these posts on the message board about how it was all a Republican conspiracy. These veterans who were against him. They were all fronts for the Bush campaign. I knew that wasn't true. Veterans had hated Kerry long before any of them had heard the name Bush.

Somebody posted a link to the Swift Boat site and I went there and read it. There, I watched the press conference. Grown men do not have to fight back tears in a room full of reporters because they supported George W. Bush for president. These men felt betrayed. Then I found the Winter Soldier site and read his testimony where he accused all American service members of committing wars, and he admitted he committed treason. NOW I knew why they were so upset.

The way the Swift Boat Vets were treated is a travesty. The MSM called them every name in the book. Their mistake, in my opinion, was going after his medals. That was never more than a he said/he said excercise in futility, and they should have concentrated on his anti-war activites, his claims of atrocities, and his other lies, which are well documented.

Nobody cares that Kerry lied. Nobody cares that he admitted to treason. Yet these same people still further the myth of the PTSD, baby killing, spit upon veteran. So much so that a widow would go on a message board and tell people her dead husband was guilty of the same things the Marines in Haditha are accused of. Like it happens everyday.

 

[CSM]

I don't think it's the wrong forum at all. It's directly related to why I started this thread in the first place.

Some background:

I'm a 47 year old woman who only has vague memories of Vietnam. It didn't effect me at all. My older brother got some kind of medical waver. I have no idea what it was, I just remember my parents being relieved about it. We weren't rich. My father was a mail man.

I grew up and have lived in New England all my life. Most of it in Rhode Island, but I spent 5 years living in New Hampshire in the 1980's, and I've lived in Massachusetts for the last two years.

When John Kerry came up for re-election, there was always some veteran, or veterans group, that came out against him. It happened every time. I never really knew why. There was a columnist for the Providence Journal by the name of Bob Kerr, who was a Vietnam vet, and he hated Kerry. He wrote many columns about him. But I never paid all that much attention. Kerry was a Mass senator and I lived in RI. I figured it was mainly about his phony medals throw.

But when Kerry became the front runner for the Democratic nomination, after Dean crashed and burned in Iowa, I was seeing all these posts on the message board about how it was all a Republican conspiracy. These veterans who were against him. They were all fronts for the Bush campaign. I knew that wasn't true. Veterans had hated Kerry long before any of them had heard the name Bush.

Somebody posted a link to the Swift Boat site and I went there and read it. There, I watched the press conference. Grown men do not have to fight back tears in a room full of reporters because they supported George W. Bush for president. These men felt betrayed. Then I found the Winter Soldier site and read his testimony where he accused all American service members of committing wars, and he admitted he committed treason. NOW I knew why they were so upset.

The way the Swift Boat Vets were treated is a travesty. The MSM called them every name in the book. Their mistake, in my opinion, was going after his medals. That was never more than a he said/he said excercise in futility, and they should have concentrated on his anti-war activites, his claims of atrocities, and his other lies, which are well documented.

Nobody cares that Kerry lied. Nobody cares that he admitted to treason. Yet these same people still further the myth of the PTSD, baby killing, spit upon veteran. So much so that a widow would go on a message board and tell people her dead husband was guilty of the same things the Marines in Haditha are accused of. Like it happens everyday.

I understand. I have a pretty good idea how soldiers act and react under combat conditions. I also have experienced first hand the result of Kerry's and Fonda's actions, know damn well how it feels to be treated as a baby killing warmonger, etc. It gives me great hope when I see the US citizens treating soldiers of today with far more respect than they have in the past. The MSM drives me absolutely buggy most of the time as do those who would bash the men and women of our military.

By the way, I live in NH (born and raised there), did two tours in lovely SE Asia, spent 30 years in the Army. My older brother also served two tours there. I have two sons, both in the Army, and both have served in Iraq. Another son spent 6 years in the Navy and went to Iraq the first time around as did I. Some would call me conservative!

 

[nt250]

I understand. I have a pretty good idea how soldiers act and react under combat conditions. I also have experienced first hand the result of Kerry's and Fonda's actions, know damn well how it feels to be treated as a baby killing warmonger, etc. It gives me great hope when I see the US citizens treating soldiers of today with far more respect than they have in the past. The MSM drives me absolutely buggy most of the time as do those who would bash the men and women of our military.

By the way, I live in NH (born and raised there), did two tours in lovely SE Asia, spent 30 years in the Army. My older brother also served two tours there. I have two sons, both in the Army, and both have served in Iraq. Another son spent 6 years in the Navy and went to Iraq the first time around as did I. Some would call me conservative!

And you're all a bunch of dysfunctional nutjobs, riight?

I lived in Plainfield for the first year I lived there in 1983. That was tough. I'm a Rhode Island girl, so I was used to getting all the TV stations. In Plainfield, on a good day, I could get all four networks. CBS was channel 3 out of Burlington, and that was watchable, but very snowy. The ABC affiliate was that station on the top of Mount Washington, so I could get that most of the time. NBC was the local affiliate in Hartford (White River), and the PBS affiliate had it's transmitter on....

Shit. I can't believe I forgot the name of it. It's just south of Plainfield/Windsor. It's the tallest single peak east of the Rockies, not part of any mountain range. I'm gonna have to look it up now.

I moved to West Lebanon and finally had cable. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I worked in White River.

You wanna know the only reason I chose New Hampshre over Vermont to find a place to live? I liked the license plate better. I'm not kidding.

 

[CSM]

And you're all a bunch of dysfunctional nutjobs, riight?

I lived in Plainfield for the first year I lived there in 1983. That was tough. I'm a Rhode Island girl, so I was used to getting all the TV stations. In Plainfield, on a good day, I could get all four networks. CBS was channel 3 out of Burlington, and that was watchable, but very snowy. The ABC affiliate was that station on the top of Mount Washington, so I could get that most of the time. NBC was the local affiliate in Hartford (White River), and the PBS affiliate had it's transmitter on....

Shit. I can't believe I forgot the name of it. It's just south of Plainfield/Windsor. It's the tallest single peak east of the Rockies, not part of any mountain range. I'm gonna have to look it up now.

I moved to West Lebanon and finally had cable. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I worked in White River.

You wanna know the only reason I chose New Hampshre over Vermont to find a place to live? I liked the license plate better. I'm not kidding.

LOL.. your sure oicked the boonies...even for NH!