Atheists Are Some Of The Dumbest People On Earth

[jillian]

Sorry Jillian. Was simply attempting to stay on topic.
You're right, government does not have a right to impose religion on anyone.

And that's not what's happening in this case.

ok fair enough. so i'll try to do the same. for what it's worth, i don't particularly mind if they display that 'cross'. it doesn't affect me one way or the other. i certainly wouldn't have filed suit over it. but i stand by my view of the 1st amendment. i don't think it applies here, though. if they fabricated a cross to put in the memorial, my view of it would change. but i remember when those buildings came down and that was left standing. it comforted some people. nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed.
And if you read the article, the plaintiffs are claiming that the steel beams are a "shrine".
Just more knee-jerky bullshit from those who believe their "freedom of religion" should allow them to outlaw the faith of others.

well, i think it's more that they don't want it to become a shrine. and it shouldn't and i don't think it will. maybe 10 years ago... not now, imo.

 

[IGetItAlready]

ok fair enough. so i'll try to do the same. for what it's worth, i don't particularly mind if they display that 'cross'. it doesn't affect me one way or the other. i certainly wouldn't have filed suit over it. but i stand by my view of the 1st amendment. i don't think it applies here, though. if they fabricated a cross to put in the memorial, my view of it would change. but i remember when those buildings came down and that was left standing. it comforted some people. nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed.
And if you read the article, the plaintiffs are claiming that the steel beams are a "shrine".
Just more knee-jerky bullshit from those who believe their "freedom of religion" should allow them to outlaw the faith of others.

well, i think it's more that they don't want it to become a shrine. and it shouldn't and i don't think it will. maybe 10 years ago... not now, imo.

You may or may not be right. I can only base what I know of the case on what's been disclosed to this point.

Silverman added that the cross was a "working Christian shrine in the memorial and then they had the gall to say it's not religious in nature, that it represents everybody.

The way I see Jillian, you remember the image of this beam rising from the rubble, I remember it and I would assume millions worldwide remember it. No one set it there to give Christ a leg up on his competitors, it was just there and as you point out it did offer comfort to many. Why should it now not be part of a memorial which is not operated by the federal government based on its resemblance to a religious icon?

Should this memorial also not display the tattered flag that flew over the sight because some people are, with all due respect, stupid anal about properly destroying damaged flags and replacing them with new ones?

And what about photos of the site while the beam stood? Should those be excluded from the display as well? And what about photos of the ACTUAL shrines that sprung up following the attacks including icons and imagery from several faiths? Maybe the entire memorial should consist of a model of the towers before they fell, some photos of the planes hitting and the fire pouring from the towers and a plaque with the names of the victims and nothing more as we don't want to misrepresent someone with a chunk of debris whose shape someone rejects.

It's a bunch of nonsense and ridiculously disrespectful toward the victims imo.

 

[Si modo]

Because you said so?

If someone wants to teach their kid that there is no G-d, does government have the right to pick a religion and subject the child to it?

Not what I said, so that's nothing but straw.

Freedom OF religion is not the same as freedom FROM religion. Period. The government has nothing to do with that - as they shouldn't.

If the non-religious and/or non-believers are offended because those who practice their CONSTITUTIONAL right to freedom OF religion, too fucking bad for the non-believers. There is no constitutional right NOT to be offended.

One can't exist without the other.

And what would that have to do with the Constitution? The First is only specific about government making laws which establish a religion.

It says nothing about God.

 

[amrchaos]

I just thought of something

Who among us actually hate the fact that some religious symbol was erected to honor the dead?

I don't--and I keep thinking that this group raising a fuss about the cross at the 911 site are a bunch of fools.

My family(on my father side) owns and runs a church. In all likely hood, when I die I am going to be buried in a christian cementary --probably with a cross as my tombstone or on it. Do I give a damn about that? Nope!

 

[Avatar4321]

How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!" (1 John 3:1a).

fine if you believe it.

but you do understand for those who don't, it really has zero meaning and wouldn't convince anyone of anything.

The Word of God has the power to convince people. Just because you arent convinced doesnt mean others arent. When the Spirit touches people, their hearts change and their minds are enlightened by the power and glory of God. It really is an amazing process. Ive been studying and seeking for nearly 14 years and the more I learn the more I realize I am still at the beginning of the process. It's very humbling.

I am fairly certain the Old Testament likewise teaches that we are the children of God. I would think that as one of the covenant people, you would believe that as well.

 

[Avatar4321]

As far as the thread title; I call bullshit. Christians have Phelps firmly in their camp. They have no standing to claim that atheists are the dumbest anything.

Not to nit pick, the title of the thread says "Some of the dumbest" not the dumbest. It leaves things open for others.

I disagree with that sentiment as well. People are given a whole range of gifts when it comes to intelligence whether they believe or not. Of course, obtaining the Gift of the Holy Ghost can magnify those gifts. But it's an individual basis, not a collective or group mentality

 

[IGetItAlready]

As far as the thread title; I call bullshit. Christians have Phelps firmly in their camp. They have no standing to claim that atheists are the dumbest anything.

Not to nit pick, the title of the thread says "Some of the dumbest" not the dumbest. It leaves things open for others.

I disagree with that sentiment as well. People are given a whole range of gifts when it comes to intelligence whether they believe or not. Of course, obtaining the Gift of the Holy Ghost can magnify those gifts. But it's an individual basis, not a collective or group mentality

I suppose I could have chosen my words a little more carefully.

Petty, whiny, sniveling, nit picky, trifling, easily offended or butt hurt would all fit and would have illustrated my point more clearly.
My apologies.

 

[Katzndogz]

Atheists are dumb because they are ideologues. They cling to their faith and demand that the government force people to cling to atheism too.

 

[Avatar4321]

I just thought of something

Who among us actually hate the fact that some religious symbol was erected to honor the dead?

I don't--and I keep thinking that this group raising a fuss about the cross at the 911 site are a bunch of fools.

My family(on my father side) owns and runs a church. In all likely hood, when I die I am going to be buried in a christian cementary --probably with a cross as my tombstone or on it. Do I give a damn about that? Nope!

And why should you?

 

[jillian]

The way I see Jillian, you remember the image of this beam rising from the rubble, I remember it and I would assume millions worldwide remember it. No one set it there to give Christ a leg up on his competitors, it was just there and as you point out it did offer comfort to many. Why should it now not be part of a memorial which is not operated by the federal government based on its resemblance to a religious icon?

Should this memorial also not display the tattered flag that flew over the sight because some people are, with all due respect, stupid anal about properly destroying damaged flags and replacing them with new ones?

And what about photos of the site while the beam stood? Should those be excluded from the display as well? And what about photos of the ACTUAL shrines that sprung up following the attacks including icons and imagery from several faiths? Maybe the entire memorial should consist of a model of the towers before they fell, some photos of the planes hitting and the fire pouring from the towers and a plaque with the names of the victims and nothing more as we don't want to misrepresent someone with a chunk of debris whose shape someone rejects.

It's a bunch of nonsense and ridiculously disrespectful toward the victims imo.

i think they should display the flag. and i think they should display the beam and the photos. but it can't be a christian site... that's all i think they're saying. after all, a lot of the people who died weren't christian.

however, from an historical perspective, i think its inappropriate to leave things out... including the fact that a lot of muslims .... and jews... and christians.. and atheists... died on 9/11

and also the fact that there was an earlier terrorist attack and those people, while not in the same dramatic numbers, were also victims and should be commemorated as well.

 

[jillian]

I just thought of something

Who among us actually hate the fact that some religious symbol was erected to honor the dead?

I don't--and I keep thinking that this group raising a fuss about the cross at the 911 site are a bunch of fools.

My family(on my father side) owns and runs a church. In all likely hood, when I die I am going to be buried in a christian cementary --probably with a cross as my tombstone or on it. Do I give a damn about that? Nope!

And why should you?

you know some of us aren't buried with crosses, right?

 

[Avatar4321]

I just thought of something

Who among us actually hate the fact that some religious symbol was erected to honor the dead?

I don't--and I keep thinking that this group raising a fuss about the cross at the 911 site are a bunch of fools.

My family(on my father side) owns and runs a church. In all likely hood, when I die I am going to be buried in a christian cementary --probably with a cross as my tombstone or on it. Do I give a damn about that? Nope!

And why should you?

you know some of us aren't buried with crosses, right?

Yes. I am. I probably wont be buried with one. But if your dead, what does it matter?

 

[IGetItAlready]

i think they should display the flag. and i think they should display the beam and the photos. but it can't be a christian site... that's all i think they're saying. after all, a lot of the people who died weren't christian.

however, from an historical perspective, i think its inappropriate to leave things out... including the fact that a lot of muslims .... and jews... and christians.. and atheists... died on 9/11

and also the fact that there was an earlier terrorist attack and those people, while not in the same dramatic numbers, were also victims and should be commemorated as well.

And I too believe the tattered flag should be displayed along with all the other items I mentioned. I don't believe the memorial is attempting to make itself a "Christian site" and even if it were, due to the fact that the memorial is NOT a federal entity their doing so could in no way be construed as an attempt by the state to promote one faith over another. Of course that gets a bit sticky with a memorial to victims of differing faiths as well as many with no faith at all even without a federal status but it's really irrelevant as that is so NOT what they're doing.

However, being that the memorial is NOT a state entity, the offense taken by people who don't like crosses should be no more or less relevant than that of a veterans group who takes offense to a tattered flag. Just imagine how that "controversy" might end.

Get real with me for a minute Jillian. We've seen it a million times where some historic landmark or icon suddenly comes under assault by some faith hating organization attempting to force its own will on an organization or a community.
If you find crosses offensive, simply don't look at them. If you find the phrase "In God We Trust" printed on our currency offensive, stop using cash. If you find any of the references to faith in our founding documents offensive, skip over those parts and focus on the fact that those same documents restrict government from forcing you to accept those founding principles. But DON'T, for the love of whatever you consider holy, attempt to force your will on the rest to this free Republic. It was NEVER intended to work that way.

 

[HUGGY]

Atheists are dumb because they are ideologues. They cling to their faith and demand that the government force people to cling to atheism too.

I wish there was a god sometimes. He/she/it would have never made people as stupid as you are.

Atheists do not cling. They realize that most people have been tricked into believing that there is a supreme being and they resent it. They resent seeing other humans acting stupidly. They resent the constant drone of compliance to their religions. They resent the waste of time they see in others and the inevitable unwinable confrontation when forced to demand that the offender take their bullshit elsewhere.

Atheists left alone are quite comfortable with how they view the world. We do not feel the need to "defend" atheism.. We feel a need to fend off our space from idiots that waste our time and piss us off with insisting we pay attention to their nonsense. Atheists DO NOT GO DOOR TO DOOR trying to convert people into atheists. NOBODY gets "converted" to atheism. You either get it...or you don't.

 

[Avatar4321]

Atheists are dumb because they are ideologues. They cling to their faith and demand that the government force people to cling to atheism too.

I wish there was a god sometimes. He/she/it would have never made people as stupid as you are.

Atheists do not cling. They realize that most people have been tricked into believing that there is a supreme being and they resent it. They resent seeing other humans acting stupidly. They resent the constant drone of compliance to their religions. They resent the waste of time they see in others and the inevitable unwinable confrontation when forced to demand that the offender take their bullshit elsewhere.

Atheists left alone are quite comfortable with how they view the world. We do not feel the need to "defend" atheism.. We feel a need to fend off our space from idiots that waste our time and piss us off with insisting we pay attention to their nonsense. Atheists DO NOT GO DOOR TO DOOR trying to convert people into atheists. NOBODY gets "converted" to atheism. You either get it...or you don't.

There is a God. He is waiting for you to reach out to Him. He wants us all to come to Him with a willing heart and mind and be healed.

BTW your statements are contradictory. Athiests resent others, but are comfortable? Resentment doesnt sound like comfort to me. You don't feel the need to defend atheism, yet you do just that. You claim you dont need to convert people to atheism, yet you go to religious forums specifically to do that through ridicule and contempt.

I dont think you even see that. I pray you will someday though.

 

[HUGGY]

Atheists are dumb because they are ideologues. They cling to their faith and demand that the government force people to cling to atheism too.

I wish there was a god sometimes. He/she/it would have never made people as stupid as you are.

Atheists do not cling. They realize that most people have been tricked into believing that there is a supreme being and they resent it. They resent seeing other humans acting stupidly. They resent the constant drone of compliance to their religions. They resent the waste of time they see in others and the inevitable unwinable confrontation when forced to demand that the offender take their bullshit elsewhere.

Atheists left alone are quite comfortable with how they view the world. We do not feel the need to "defend" atheism.. We feel a need to fend off our space from idiots that waste our time and piss us off with insisting we pay attention to their nonsense. Atheists DO NOT GO DOOR TO DOOR trying to convert people into atheists. NOBODY gets "converted" to atheism. You either get it...or you don't.

There is a God. He is waiting for you to reach out to Him. He wants us all to come to Him with a willing heart and mind and be healed.

BTW your statements are contradictory. Athiests resent others, but are comfortable? Resentment doesnt sound like comfort to me. You don't feel the need to defend atheism, yet you do just that. You claim you dont need to convert people to atheism, yet you go to religious forums specifically to do that through ridicule and contempt.

I dont think you even see that. I pray you will someday though.

I can be a mean spirited vindictive son of a bitch at times. I used to be less so but over the years I became comfortable with confrontation. I don't get worked up like you do. I don't see people like you as a challenge. I see you as an opportunity to fuck with you and people like you as revenge for all of the times I have held my tongue when a lot younger out of respect for others "freedoms". I long ago stopped wasting my time trying to be kind to the religious. They see it as weekness and an opportunity to waste even more of my time with their nonsense. But yes I mix it up with the less timid religious frequently. I guess I just enjoy fucking with idiots. Ya strange hobby..but everybody has to do something.

 

[The Irish Ram]

How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!" (1 John 3:1a).

fine if you believe it.

but you do understand for those who don't, it really has zero meaning and wouldn't convince anyone of anything.

I do understand that. I just wanted Huggy to know that what he asked of Avatar wasn't possible. When Avatar talks about Avatar's Heavenly father, he can't help but be talking about Huggy's father. They are one in the same. Huggy doesn't have to accept that fact, but I don't think that Avatar was breaking any rules that necessitate an Admins.intervention.

 

[HUGGY]

How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!" (1 John 3:1a).

fine if you believe it.

but you do understand for those who don't, it really has zero meaning and wouldn't convince anyone of anything.

I do understand that. I just wanted Huggy to know that what he asked of Avatar wasn't possible. When Avatar talks about Avatar's Heavenly father, he can't help but be talking about Huggy's father. They are one in the same. Huggy doesn't have to accept that fact, but I don't think that Avatar was breaking any rules that necessitate an Admins.intervention.

I would just like to let you know that people like you and Avatar are at the leading point of what is troubling about religion. You just don't get it that the world has been changing for the better because more and more average people reject religion. You just go on willfully ignorant that the power and guilt you once enjoyed is evaporating. A few hundred years ago people like you could get people like me killed and did frequently if we challenged your beliefs. Now ..not so much. Now you are on the ropes not I. Now religion is on the defense as it should be and I for one am not willing to allow any refferee to step in and stop the fight. You all need to be knocked stoned cold out as players in my life and any that have the intelligence and strength to reject delusion as a foundation for living their life.

It used to be that religion trumped all other consideration. Now you must respect others rights equally. Insulting me and my father in the name of your fantasy is not acceptable. There used to be no line you couldn't cross right up to and including murder. Surprise surprise. Now there are lines and they are closing in all around you. One of them is a line I draw right at your feet when it comes to respecting my family. Cross it at your own peril.

 

[amrchaos]

The way I see Jillian, you remember the image of this beam rising from the rubble, I remember it and I would assume millions worldwide remember it. No one set it there to give Christ a leg up on his competitors, it was just there and as you point out it did offer comfort to many. Why should it now not be part of a memorial which is not operated by the federal government based on its resemblance to a religious icon?

Should this memorial also not display the tattered flag that flew over the sight because some people are, with all due respect, stupid anal about properly destroying damaged flags and replacing them with new ones?

And what about photos of the site while the beam stood? Should those be excluded from the display as well? And what about photos of the ACTUAL shrines that sprung up following the attacks including icons and imagery from several faiths? Maybe the entire memorial should consist of a model of the towers before they fell, some photos of the planes hitting and the fire pouring from the towers and a plaque with the names of the victims and nothing more as we don't want to misrepresent someone with a chunk of debris whose shape someone rejects.

It's a bunch of nonsense and ridiculously disrespectful toward the victims imo.

i think they should display the flag. and i think they should display the beam and the photos. but it can't be a christian site... that's all i think they're saying. after all, a lot of the people who died weren't christian.

however, from an historical perspective, i think its inappropriate to leave things out... including the fact that a lot of muslims .... and jews... and christians.. and atheists... died on 9/11

and also the fact that there was an earlier terrorist attack and those people, while not in the same dramatic numbers, were also victims and should be commemorated as well.

The erect a steele on the other side with the star of david.

I am an atheists and I don't care.--except if you do a star and moon steel. Then I have some issues with it. Sorry,but I will then.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Some really people need to find something better to do with their time. I hope they put up 20 crosses each with a jumbo sized bible at its base--just to fuck the weirdos who sue over a cross-shaped thing being put up where their dainty eyes might see it. Good Lord, go play some x-box or something. Read a book. Eat a bag of fritos. Learn to play the guitar. Something.

There's a world full of problems, real problems, and this is what these freaks choose to get upset about? Go suck up a stump, as my old dad used to say.