Atheist Manifesto

[Matrixx8]

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear... Do not be frightened from this inquiry from any fear of its consequences. If it ends in the belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise... -- Thomas Jefferson

Here's someone who took Jefferson's advice.

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind is not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of 6 billion human beings. The same statistics also suggest that this girl’s parents believe at this very moment that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.


Read: An Atheist Manifesto by Sam Harris

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Here's someone who took Jefferson's advice.

so you believe murder is wrong? Where does that moral dictate come from? who are you to judge his aberrant sexual orientation and hobbies? Aren't you kind of closed- minded?

 

[5stringJeff]

The presence of evil does not preclude the existence of God.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind is not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of 6 billion human beings. The same statistics also suggest that this girl’s parents believe at this very moment that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.

I believe in a powerful and loving God, and in keeping a careful watch over my daughter to keep her safe as best I can.

 

[Dr Grump]

The presence of evil does not preclude the existence of God.

But being God fearing, does it ever make you wonder why evil exists? Why a God allows it?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

But being God fearing, does it ever make you wonder why evil exists? Why a God allows it?

Screw that grump. You lefties can't even define evil.

 

[dilloduck]

But being God fearing, does it ever make you wonder why evil exists? Why a God allows it?

If evil and good didnt' exist we would all be a bunch of mediocre liberals with no one to bitch at.

 

[Dr Grump]

If evil and good didnt' exist we would all be a bunch of mediocre liberals with no one to bitch at.

Heh...

 

[Dr Grump]

Screw that grump. You lefties can't even define evil.

I am about as much a leftie as you are a Nazi...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I am about as much a leftie as you are a Nazi...

What are you?

 

[Dr Grump]

A bita this and a bita that....

 

[5stringJeff]

But being God fearing, does it ever make you wonder why evil exists? Why a God allows it?

God allows human beings to make free choices. In doing so, God allowed for the possibility of evil to exist. If God had not allowed free will choices, then humans could not love, because love does not involve compulsion. If we were forced to do right 100% of the time, we could not act in love; we would be acting out of compulsion. Therefore, God allows humans to make evil choices because He has allowed us to act in free will.

 

[jillian]

God allows human beings to make free choices. In doing so, God allowed for the possibility of evil to exist. If God had not allowed free will choices, then humans could not love, because love does not involve compulsion. If we were forced to do right 100% of the time, we could not act in love; we would be acting out of compulsion. Therefore, God allows humans to make evil choices because He has allowed us to act in free will.

How do you put that together with the concept that everything is planned and can't be changed?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

How do you put that together with the concept that everything is planned and can't be changed?

It's like knowing the bus schedule, but not knowing who will be on board each segment of the route.

 

[Dr Grump]

God allows human beings to make free choices. In doing so, God allowed for the possibility of evil to exist. If God had not allowed free will choices, then humans could not love, because love does not involve compulsion. If we were forced to do right 100% of the time, we could not act in love; we would be acting out of compulsion. Therefore, God allows humans to make evil choices because He has allowed us to act in free will.

hhmmmm...intersting insight. Wouldn't it have been better for an omnipotent being just to get those to do what he wants without free will. I know you will probably answer, "well, then he/she wouldn't be god if that were the case". I'm still trying to figure out why the big "get" is to love and believe in him/her unconditionally. Can't get my head around it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

hhmmmm...intersting insight. Wouldn't it have been better for an omnipotent being just to get those to do what he wants without free will. I know you will probably answer, "well, then he/she wouldn't be god if that were the case". I'm still trying to figure out why the big "get" is to love and believe in him/her unconditionally. Can't get my head around it.

Satan is the totalitarian you're thinking of. That's why he will only reveal himself when the total control grid is in place. God created us in his image, to eventually develop to be like him, and to want it, because of love of his ways, the ways of goodness and trust.

 

[Matrixx8]

so you believe murder is wrong? Where does that moral dictate come from? who are you to judge his aberrant sexual orientation and hobbies? Aren't you kind of closed- minded?

That's quite a loaded question, RA, but I'll tell you what I think. The only answer I know is the one that evolutionary science explains. Moral codes are survival tools. Eating healthy food is "right"; eating poisionous food is "wrong". Tit for tat is a common human emotion. Treat people with respect and they will treat you with respect. The evolutionary version of the Golden Rule! Killing people is the antithesis of survival ethics. The earliest hunter-gatherer societies understood that and developed codes to punish those who murdered, raped, stole or broke the tribal rules. Without such codes, they would not have survived and you or I would not be here to write about it.

Your "aberrant sexual orientation" is a value judgment about a human activity that reflects a personal choice and has little or no effect on other people. Such behaviour, whether one tolerates, approves or disapproves of it, does not harm other human beings, if the activity is voluntary. There are even evolutionary explanations about the role of homosexuals as extended family, much like explanations about the role of religion as a psychological tool for dealing with catastrophes and traumas.

As to whether or not I'm closed minded, you'll have to judge for yourself. I've taken the time to answer your question, even though it expresses an attitude that I personally find unenlightened.

On the other hand, I could be wrong.

 

[Dr Grump]

Satan is the totalitarian you're thinking of. That's why he will only reveal himself when the total control grid is in place. God created us in his image, to eventually develop to be like him, and to want it, because of love of his ways, the ways of goodness and trust.

I though God has no image. He/she is what she/he is?? I see both the OT and NT and the Koran etc as nothing more than allegorical (in most cases)....

 

[Dr Grump]

On the other hand, I could be wrong.

You're not. He's a neocon. 'Nuff said?:gross2:

 

[Matrixx8]

The presence of evil does not preclude the existence of God.

Indeed. Nor does it preclude the existence of fairies at the bottom of the garden.