Atheism: See Spot Laugh

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Ringtone, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. BreezeWood
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    BreezeWood VIP Member

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    hope springs eternal, for who are able to see the light of day - the latter is what you need to work on bowie. written forgeries are like beacons of light as well leading to an original intent and a proper conclusion.
     
  2. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    Thank you.

    Those are great questions. The correct answer to those questions is only God knows.

    But I will venture a guess. Because he is seeking certain outcomes under certain conditions.

    That may not be comforting to some but it is to me.

    I believe he works in everyone’s lives. Even the ones who don’t believe in him or recognize how he works.
     
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  3. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    I don’t know about that. I believe that God experiences time all at once. Such that he has an infinite amount of time for all things.
     
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  4. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    I trust the Creator to have our best interests in mind. But what is in our best interests is not often what we think it is.

    I take comfort in having a rational conceptual model of the Creator. Maybe this is an autism thingy?

    I think I have found it in something related to Eastern Orthodox Emanationism, but hey, each to his own.

    The Creator takes us as we are, in our best efforts and cleanses the rest away with the Blood of the Lamb.
     
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  5. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Yes, I think the Father does, and the Son as the Logos in an infinite number of Creations does also, but in a slightly different way.

    Like the surface tension of a body of water, touching the air somewhat changes the behavior of the water, but it is all still just water.

    But The Creator is both transcendent and immanent, and sometimes we focus on the one and downplay the other aspect of Him. I think the neo-Orthodox focus a bit too much on the transcendent and touch less on the immanent aspect of Who the Creator is.
     
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  6. diver52
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    diver52 Member

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    Sounds perfectly rational to me.
     
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  7. Ringtone
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    Ringtone Senior Member

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    It's just the classically orthodox construct of theism according to the first principles of ontology per the imperatives of logic: God is the eternally self-subsistent and transcendent (i.e., wholly immaterial) ground of existence.

    Something exists rather than nothing. The notion that all things began to exist is absurd, as that's necessarily the notion of existence arising from nonexistence, which is redundantly absurd.

    Something has always existed, that which we call God, a wholly transcendent being (i.e., a being who exists apart from and is not subject to the limitations of the created, material universe). Ultimately, God is pure mind (spirit).

    That's the view of Judaism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam and Deism proper. Hence, it's the biblically orthodox construct of theism:

    Folks are often confused by Hinduism in this regard because of its materialistic and pagan trappings couple with the multiplicity of "gods."

    Hinduism proper begins with Brahman, the immaterial and eternal ground of existence. Brahman's personal forms/roles of the Trimurti are: Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Preserver) and Shiva (Destroyer). The latter are manifestations of Brahman. The lesser gods are the spiritual offspring of the major manifestations and their wives. Hinduism is a convoluted mess.
     
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  8. Ringtone
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    Ringtone Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with the emboldened, as I'm not sure what you mean by act. Remember, God existed from eternity, ontologically prior to the material world of space and time which he created. But we're on the same page with the rest it would seem.
     
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  9. Ringtone
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    Ringtone Senior Member

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    I suppose that depends upon your reading of the Bible. To my mind both God's transcendence and immanence are equally emphasized, most emphatically in the person of Christ, the incarnate God Almighty. The Father and the Holy Spirit's interdimensional immanence is fascinating, as they do have a role in creation as well. God's continuous transcendence is emphasized in them, as God ontologically precedes the material world which he created and interdimensionally permeates in toto. In the person of Christ—through whom and by whom, as you observed, all creatures were directly created—God enters space and time.

    Berkeley, the empiricist and orthodox Christian, declared that God is the necessary being who never looks away, meaning that all created things ultimately exist in God's mind and if God were to ever "look away," i.e., put us out of his mind, we would cease to exist—dissolve into the nothingness from which we came by the sheer power of God's imaginative will. I think this is right.

    Edit: should read God ontologically precedes the material world
     
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  10. Ringtone
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    Ringtone Senior Member

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    Would you see things differently if I were to suggest to you that there is a continuous spiritual connection between the persons of the Trinity and that the Father and Holy Spirit's immanence is interdimensional in toto?.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019

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