Atheism is a religion of self-worship

I think you mean that it requires arrogance to believe that one's perceptions of the lack of evidence in a Creator makes for the belief that there is no Creator? One believes in one's perceptions more than in a higher power. I don't think I put that very well.

I see your point, but do not agree because it assumes that there is a Creator and to assume makes an ass out of you and I.

Instead I see it this way: if a Creator gave me the ability to reason, and in using that ability I come to the conclusion that there is no Creator, it isn't arrogance, it's a Creator who wishes to remain anonymous.

Did the Creator give you such abilities, or did you inherit such from one or two of your ancestors eating fruit from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? ;)

care


If god did not give man the ability to reason, then man could not reason that eating the fruit would be disobeying god's command, since it takes the ability to reason (no matter how limited it might be) to understand. Therefore, if it is not from god, Man cannot be held liable for eating of the tree, and therefore is not liable for sin.

See also: 'made in our own image'

I can never follow along the logic of the religious "proving" the existence of God. Why not say, "God is coming to my house for dinner". Or, "I got God's autograph". Something "real". Something "tangible". Something not "supernatural or occult".

All the evidence proving "God" is equal to the evidence proving "Astrology".
 
I'm afraid it is much the opposite. Without God there are no moral absolutes therefor you are standing on completely slippery ground.

Are there any moral absolutes?
No, there aren't. That's why some need God, to decide what the moral absolutes are.


IN other words, they can't think for themselves and need a magical sky daddy (or, in some cases a nanny state) to tell them what to do and how to behave?
 
TL has admitted that no moral absolutes exist. Let the record show this for future reference.

Yippeeeee I can kill you now.:lol:

I didn't say that no moral absolutes existed. I just said if there is no God there are no moral absolutes. You just jumped to the conclusion that God doesn't exist which is false.
The Abrahamic god has been proven to not exist. If you're referring to another myth, you'll have to specify.
 
A couple people have commented on this sig-line so I thought I'd start a thread about it.

What do you think I mean by this? (pos reps given for sincere efforts, right or wrong. :D)


Discuss.

I disagree with the premise (and i haven't gone through the thread, so someone else may have said this) but I think what you mean is that rather than atheists seeing man as being created in G-d's image, they see G-d as being created in man's image.
 
I'm afraid it is much the opposite. Without God there are no moral absolutes therefor you are standing on completely slippery ground.

Are there any moral absolutes?

Not without God there are not. If I am the god of my universe then I may find it perfectly acceptable to kill whomever I please. Though you may think that killing someone is immoral, who are you to tell me that it isn't.

With God there is absolute moral bankruptcy.

Is 13: 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

De 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

De 3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.

Ez 9: 5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women...

Hosea 13: 16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Psalms 137: 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
 
TL has admitted that no moral absolutes exist. Let the record show this for future reference.

Yippeeeee I can kill you now.:lol:

I didn't say that no moral absolutes existed. I just said if there is no God there are no moral absolutes. You just jumped to the conclusion that God doesn't exist which is false.

I like your work!! :lol:

But on the point.

If there is no God then there are no moral absolutes.
There are moral absolutes.
Therefore there is a God

Did I get it right or am I misrepresenting (not intentionally I assure you) your argument?
 
TL has admitted that no moral absolutes exist. Let the record show this for future reference.

Yippeeeee I can kill you now.:lol:

I didn't say that no moral absolutes existed. I just said if there is no God there are no moral absolutes. You just jumped to the conclusion that God doesn't exist which is false.

I like your work!! :lol:

But on the point.

If there is no God then there are no moral absolutes.
There are moral absolutes.
Therefore there is a God

Did I get it right or am I misrepresenting (not intentionally I assure you) your argument?

Valid but unsound. ;)
 
I think on the key things, "we just KNOW" what is wrong...somehow, inside...we just KNOW...

atheist, agnostic, or some religious person, just knows for the most part that it is wrong to kill, and to steal, and to beat someone up, and wrong to not respect your parents, and wrong to desire and pursue your brother's wife....

I don't know how we all know these things, we could be prewired for such, who knows...but i do know that most human beings know the above, whether brought up religious or not...they just know it....maybe it is just the environment most of us were raised in? But how did that 'environment' actually become the environment and why it came the environment is up for discussion?

Even when we do kill, like in war...we have to sit and justify it in our heads and even legally, in order to accept this kind of killing, and even then, the young men doing the killing often times come home scarred mentally, with post traumatic stress.....my parents were never 'normal' again after killing a man in a car accident they had.... :(
 
Care, it's wrong to kill? You mean the US should let Osama go and pull out of Irak, afghanistan, South Korea, Germany, Japan...? Cut your military by 90%? Cut off israel? Outlaw guns?
 
I think on the key things, "we just KNOW" what is wrong...somehow, inside...we just KNOW...

atheist, agnostic, or some religious person, just knows for the most part that it is wrong to kill, and to steal, and to beat someone up, and wrong to not respect your parents, and wrong to desire and pursue your brother's wife....

I don't know how we all know these things, we could be prewired for such, who knows...but i do know that most human beings know the above, whether brought up religious or not...they just know it....maybe it is just the environment most of us were raised in? But how did that 'environment' actually become the environment and why it came the environment is up for discussion?

Even when we do kill, like in war...we have to sit and justify it in our heads and even legally, in order to accept this kind of killing, and even then, the young men doing the killing often times come home scarred mentally, with post traumatic stress.....my parents were never 'normal' again after killing a man in a car accident they had.... :(

Those feelings can be explained logically with evolution Care.

We are a pack, or herd, or tribal animal. Our early ancestors survived by working together and not as individuals. Human offspring require love to have the best chance at survival (see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). Love is a feeling that inspires human beings to empathize. We also perceive a threat to ourselves when we see a threat to others of our species. For the continuation of the species, we will risk even our own lives.

And there is the contract: you don't kill me, I won't kill you. You don't steal my things, and I won't steal yours. You don't rape my wife, I won't rape yours. Now multiply that by millions of years.

Those feelings of morality are INSTINCTUAL. If God doesn't want his creations eating their offspring, how come some of them do? Like alligators?
 
Care, it's wrong to kill? You mean the US should let Osama go and pull out of Irak, afghanistan, South Korea, Germany, Japan...? Cut your military by 90%? Cut off israel? Outlaw guns?

The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill." What part of that do you not understand?
 
Yippeeeee I can kill you now.:lol:

I didn't say that no moral absolutes existed. I just said if there is no God there are no moral absolutes. You just jumped to the conclusion that God doesn't exist which is false.

I like your work!! :lol:

But on the point.

If there is no God then there are no moral absolutes.
There are moral absolutes.
Therefore there is a God

Did I get it right or am I misrepresenting (not intentionally I assure you) your argument?

Valid but unsound. ;)
pisspill's argument is not valid. It's logically fallacious.
 
I think on the key things, "we just KNOW" what is wrong...somehow, inside...we just KNOW...

atheist, agnostic, or some religious person, just knows for the most part that it is wrong to kill, and to steal, and to beat someone up, and wrong to not respect your parents, and wrong to desire and pursue your brother's wife....

I don't know how we all know these things, we could be prewired for such, who knows...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/79574-the-moral-instinct.html

Even when we do kill, like in war...we have to sit and justify it in our heads and even legally, in order to accept this kind of killing, and even then, the young men doing the killing often times come home scarred mentally, with post traumatic stress.....my parents were never 'normal' again after killing a man in a car accident they had.... :(
because they have a complex
 

Forum List

Back
Top