Astronomers find new planet capable of supporting life

[OohPooPahDoo]

Excuse my cynicism but the same "scientists" who think life on earth is doomed for some green related reason or another actually get away with telling us that a planet 22 light years away is suitable for human life strictly based on it's proximity to it's energy source. Let me know when the improved telescopes see people waving and then I'll be a believer.

Will you believe in gravity when you can see gravity?

I can't see gravity but I can feel it. I can see B.S. though. How about you? Can you sense a pleasant feeling of gravity 22 light years away along with the rest of the pipe dream?

No, I can't sense gravity that far away. If I am to believe gravity even exist there, its because I think the theory of gravity is for the most part correct.

 

[uscitizen]

It could be life at the level of bacteria or single-celled organisms if it's there at all. The trouble with these sorts of announcements is is that they're silly and, to me, are pretty much for publicity and to attract research $$$. A statement like this ought to be peer-reviewed by other scientific specialists, data compared and contrasted and whatnot, and then the news released via in a periodical or somesuch.

Take a look at this:

Astronomers have discovered their "holy grail" - a planet capable of supporting life outside our solar system.

O RLY?

Misleading.

It potentially has the capability of supporting life if, say, the measurements are correct and the data properly interpreted. As for any suggestions of intelligent extraterrestrial life... SETI has been looking for decades and hasn't found it yet.

It is not easy to find intelligent life on this planet.

 

[OldManOnFire]

It could be life at the level of bacteria or single-celled organisms if it's there at all. The trouble with these sorts of announcements is is that they're silly and, to me, are pretty much for publicity and to attract research $$$. A statement like this ought to be peer-reviewed by other scientific specialists, data compared and contrasted and whatnot, and then the news released via in a periodical or somesuch.

Take a look at this:

Astronomers have discovered their "holy grail" - a planet capable of supporting life outside our solar system.

O RLY?

Misleading.

It potentially has the capability of supporting life if, say, the measurements are correct and the data properly interpreted. As for any suggestions of intelligent extraterrestrial life... SETI has been looking for decades and hasn't found it yet.

I understand what you are saying about potential 'grandstanding' for funding or whatever reasons...but...I would prefer they share their discoveries instead of keeping them from the public. If one astronomer finds something interesting, you can be assured other astronomers are checking/validating the findings.

Regarding the 'holy grail', well, if we avoid religious overtones, holy grail is also defined as a 'goal that is sought after for it's great significance'. Certainly those involved with SETI have these goals...

 

[OldManOnFire]

Suppose you have an isolated island community. They decide that they are going to look to see if there are other communties somewhere else in the world. So they send someone to the mountain tops to check for smoke signals every day.

Perhaps the problems with looking for radio signals concerning intelligent life is that what ever technological life exists out there may have already gone on to another superior technology. Electromagnetic communications technology may be a technological phase that exists for a very limited time in any advanced civilization.

SETI is looking for a familiar technology...radio waves. Exactly as you say, this technology might only exist for ~300-400 years, or the civilization itself might only exist 2000-3000 years?? When searching great distances it is unfathomable to me that we would be so lucky to capture these infinitesimal moments in time.

Further, I'm guessing that radio waves are a 'finite' energy?? If so, do we really know what distances they might travel? Do we know the transmission power and noise levels, etc. and that they can travel in 'detectable' form for thousands/millions/billions of light years?

Whether SETI search for radio signals is the best path or not, IMO...it's better to be doing something than nothing...

 

[OldManOnFire]

Perhaps the problems with looking for radio signals concerning intelligent life is that what ever technological life exists out there may have already gone on to another superior technology. Electromagnetic communications technology may be a technological phase that exists for a very limited time in any advanced civilization.

I think the SETI people are aware of this but, as it stands, radio signals are the best means of communicaton long-distance available on Earth at the present. I read somewhere that they were looking into lasers or some other optical form of communication but, guess what, it's too expensive at the moment and SETI is a privately-funded organization now.

It's just like the native on the mountain top looking for smoke signals...binoculars and other optical technology was not yet available...his success rate of finding other smoke signals would be severely limited...maybe impossible.

Regarding stuff being too expensive...I've noticed today when the US talks about further space exploration, like to Mars, has virtually become impossible due to horrific costs and a lack of available funding. The entire NASA budget is now something like $18 billion which is absolutely mouse-nuts money! And it appears the US is not interested with real partnerships with other nations to spread the funding issues.

Anecdotally, 50 miles south of me is the Golden Gate bridge. It's become a traffic bottleneck! It should be expanded with more lanes, or a second bridge built, including a separate bridge for train service, but the chances of this ever happening are slim to none...solely because there's not enough money. IMO...if we can't even afford to build proper bridges how are we ever going to fund major space exploration...

 

[Unkotare]

holy grail is also defined as a 'goal that is sought after for it's great significance'. ...

Not really.

 

[OldManOnFire]

holy grail is also defined as a 'goal that is sought after for it's great significance'. ...

Not really.

Obviously YOU are an extraterrestrial and DO NOT live in the same reality as the rest of us...

 

[Unkotare]

holy grail is also defined as a 'goal that is sought after for it's great significance'. ...

Not really.

Obviously YOU are an extraterrestrial and DO NOT live in the same reality as the rest of us...

Your ignorance is not my fault.

 

[amrchaos]

So--50 years round trip? Not counting time for actual exploration??

Can we start our space explorers force up? I am pretty sure there are intelligent couples that can fare such a trip with their children ad explore this new planet for us.

Oh yeah, that problem about radiation has to be solved. I guess we will get people out there in 150 years then, right?

We are at the beginnings of a fantastic epoch for man! And I bet few people appreciate it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Excuse my cynicism but the same "scientists" who think life on earth is doomed for some green related reason or another actually get away with telling us that a planet 22 light years away is suitable for human life strictly based on it's proximity to it's energy source. Let me know when the improved telescopes see people waving and then I'll be a believer.

Will you believe in gravity when you can see gravity?

I can't see gravity but I can feel it. I can see B.S. though. How about you? Can you sense a pleasant feeling of gravity 22 light years away along with the rest of the pipe dream?

You can't feel gravity. If you are in a free fall unrestricted by drag, you will feel no net force on your body as you will be in an inertial frame.

 

[OldManOnFire]

Will you believe in gravity when you can see gravity?

I can't see gravity but I can feel it. I can see B.S. though. How about you? Can you sense a pleasant feeling of gravity 22 light years away along with the rest of the pipe dream?

You can't feel gravity. If you are in a free fall unrestricted by drag, you will feel no net force on your body as you will be in an inertial frame.

If you are holding a 16 pound bowling ball in the palm of your hand, barely being able to keep your arm straight out, what is it that you believe you are feeling?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I can't see gravity but I can feel it. I can see B.S. though. How about you? Can you sense a pleasant feeling of gravity 22 light years away along with the rest of the pipe dream?

You can't feel gravity. If you are in a free fall unrestricted by drag, you will feel no net force on your body as you will be in an inertial frame.

If you are holding a 16 pound bowling ball in the palm of your hand, barely being able to keep your arm straight out, what is it that you believe you are feeling?

Your hand is accelerating the bowling ball - you're feeling a force exerted by your hand and the inertia of the bowling bowl resisting it.

Its the exact same thing you would feel if you were in a flat space, free of gravity, and you were pushing on the bowling ball with enough force to accelerate it at 9.81 m/s^2.

 

[OldManOnFire]

You can't feel gravity. If you are in a free fall unrestricted by drag, you will feel no net force on your body as you will be in an inertial frame.

If you are holding a 16 pound bowling ball in the palm of your hand, barely being able to keep your arm straight out, what is it that you believe you are feeling?

Your hand is accelerating the bowling ball - you're feeling a force exerted by your hand and the inertia of the bowling bowl resisting it.

Its the exact same thing you would feel if you were in a flat space, free of gravity, and you were pushing on the bowling ball with enough force to accelerate it at 9.81 m/s^2.

How can there be 'acceleration' if the bowling ball is stationary? Seems to me the only process involved is the gravitational tug on the ball, and the muscles in the arm resisting this gravitational tug? The 'inertia' is caused by gravity, therefore, if you can feel inertia then you can feel gravity...right?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If you are holding a 16 pound bowling ball in the palm of your hand, barely being able to keep your arm straight out, what is it that you believe you are feeling?

Your hand is accelerating the bowling ball - you're feeling a force exerted by your hand and the inertia of the bowling bowl resisting it.

Its the exact same thing you would feel if you were in a flat space, free of gravity, and you were pushing on the bowling ball with enough force to accelerate it at 9.81 m/s^2.

How can there be 'acceleration' if the bowling ball is stationary? Seems to me the only process involved is the gravitational tug on the ball, and the muscles in the arm resisting this gravitational tug? The 'inertia' is caused by gravity, therefore, if you can feel inertia then you can feel gravity...right?

From the perspective of 4D space-time in general relativity, a bowling ball being held up against the force of gravity is not stationary - or, to use the terms involved in 4d space-time, its does not follow a geodesic path through space-time. A bowling ball falling freely under gravity is actually following a geodesic through space-time. The space-time is curved under the presence of mass - which means a "straight line" is no longer the shortest distance between two points - a geodesic is.

Under general relativity, gravity is a result of curved space-time rather than any actual "force" - its a "fictional force" caused by the curved coordinate system much like the Corilis force isn't a "real" force but rather a result of a rotating reference frame.

Its strange to think of gravity in these terms but GR has held up to experitmental scrutinty many times and in fact without our knowlegde of it the GPS system would not work.


To make it simplified -

image a 2d space-time with one spatial and one time dimension. If it is "flat" - then a "stationary" object will travel a straight line running up and down the time axis without changing over the x-axis. It moves through time but not through space - right? Now add a point mass at x=0 (and all t). This curves the space-time and now that "straight line" the object was traveling before is no longer a geodesic - the shortest distance between two points. Instead the geodesic is curved toward the mass - so the object follows a line with brings it closer to the point mass at x=0. But that object is not undergoing any real "force" - its simply moving through space on its geodesic path inimpeded by outside forces - its just that the curinvg of that path makes it appear as if a force is acting on it.