Assisted Suicide

[xsited1]

For or Against? And why?

For. I consider it a fundamental human right. That said, it must be handled very delicately with several layers of checks and balances.

 

[geauxtohell]

What about those not diagnosed as depressed or mentally ill but just flat don't want to continue on? For example, a couple married for 60 years. Imagine. 60 years with the same person at your side. Then one dies. The other does not want to "carry on".
What category, if any, do they fall in?

The permanent solution to a temporary problem category. And no they should not be assisted.

And no state supports mental illness as an indication for physician assisted suicide.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What about those not diagnosed as depressed or mentally ill but just flat don't want to continue on? For example, a couple married for 60 years. Imagine. 60 years with the same person at your side. Then one dies. The other does not want to "carry on".
What category, if any, do they fall in?

The permanent solution to a temporary problem category. And no they should not be assisted.

And no state supports mental illness as an indication for physician assisted suicide.

You obviously have NOT been reading all the replies.

 

[geauxtohell]

I understand why people with terminal illness facing pain and loss of dignity would like to take charge of their death. I do still have concerns that this would be misused and so good safeguards need to be there and care needs also to be taken that it does not become expected. I might want this myself.

However for people who are suffering emotional pain and want to commit simple suicide you have just illustrated why this is indeed encouraging them to do it. It makes it simple. Also for people who have been saying that people have the right to take their own life whenever they want, well yes they do. Suicide is not against the law. But if you are wanting to commit suicide because you are depressed and I am willing to assist you then I am agreeing that your life is not worth anything. I would never agree to assist someone to commit suicide because they were depressed and I find it alarming that people believe they should be assisted (not sure whether you personally are saying this).

No, I am not saying that. I said I support the Oregon model, which limits PAS to patients with terminal disease:

Death with Dignity Act | Death with Dignity Act

Suicidal ideations are a symptom of depression, which can be treated. Depression or mental illness should never be an indication for physician assisted suicide. I doubt any physician would support that. It's malpractice.

If a mentally ill person wants to kill themselves (and many of them do. It's the number one mortality factor behind depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia) they can do so by their own hand. But no physician should assist them.

In fact, harm to self is an indication for involuntary commitment at an inpatient behavioral health facility. The goal with mental illness is to prevent suicide. Not facilitate it.

This is much different than a patient with stage 4 esophageal cancer whose 5 year survival odds are 0%. (Seriously, they are abysmal. Only pancreatic cancer is worse).

I don't think this is a left or right question. It is very complicated and depends on many issues not least safeguarding people.

I agree. That comment was directed to a poster who tends to ruminate over what they perceive to be a "left wing culture of death".

 

[geauxtohell]

The permanent solution to a temporary problem category. And no they should not be assisted.

And no state supports mental illness as an indication for physician assisted suicide.

You obviously have NOT been reading all the replies.

I said "states", not USMB posters.

I disagree with the posters on here that would support PAS for the mentally ill. I think that is (no pun intended) insane.

So do the states that have PAS laws.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And no state supports mental illness as an indication for physician assisted suicide.

You obviously have NOT been reading all the replies.

I said "states", not USMB posters.

I disagree with the posters on here that would support PAS for the mentally ill. I think that is (no pun intended) insane.

So do the states that have PAS laws.

Once you start down the road ....... it is a slippery slope.

 

[Grace]

I don't think the majority of depressed or mentally unstable people want the help of a physician. They will just quietly do it themselves. Or not so quietly. Depends on the individual.

 

[alexa]

I understand why people with terminal illness facing pain and loss of dignity would like to take charge of their death. I do still have concerns that this would be misused and so good safeguards need to be there and care needs also to be taken that it does not become expected. I might want this myself.

However for people who are suffering emotional pain and want to commit simple suicide you have just illustrated why this is indeed encouraging them to do it. It makes it simple. Also for people who have been saying that people have the right to take their own life whenever they want, well yes they do. Suicide is not against the law. But if you are wanting to commit suicide because you are depressed and I am willing to assist you then I am agreeing that your life is not worth anything. I would never agree to assist someone to commit suicide because they were depressed and I find it alarming that people believe they should be assisted (not sure whether you personally are saying this).

No, I am not saying that. I said I support the Oregon model, which limits PAS to patients with terminal disease:

Death with Dignity Act | Death with Dignity Act


Suicidal ideations are a symptom of depression, which can be treated. Depression or mental illness should never be an indication for physician assisted suicide. I doubt any physician would support that. It's malpractice.

If a mentally ill person wants to kill themselves (and many of them do. It's the number one mortality factor behind depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia) they can do so by their own hand. But no physician should assist them.

In fact, harm to self is an indication for involuntary commitment at an inpatient behavioral health facility. The goal with mental illness is to prevent suicide. Not facilitate it.

Yes. I saw when I finished typing that you had been saying that while I was typing my post.

However some years ago we heard that Doctors in Amsterdam were helping people end their lives for depression and in the case of the 18 year old boy who suffered paralysis of his legs it was mainly depression. He also got help in Europe.

I like the idea of the patient taking the pills home and taking them when they want. When British people travel to Europe there have a room. They are given the pills and they take them then. I think I would prefer to take them home and take them when the time feels right.

This is much different than a patient with stage 4 esophageal cancer whose 5 year survival odds are 0%. (Seriously, they are abysmal. Only pancreatic cancer is worse).

completely agree. I also liked the way you pointed out that with more treatment people stay alive longer. I was in contact with some breast cancer patients who took forever to die and it was hell. I would not want to go through that.

Now, late here, I am off to bed.

 

[Anachronism]

You should read some of Bill Colby's writings on this manner. A DNR is pretty set in stone, but a Living Will might not be as concrete as you think it is.

I'll have to look into that. I'll have to get new ones when I move to PA later this year. My Living Will was written by a lawyer just for that purpose. It's pretty specific and really doesn't leave much to the imagination or interpretation so hopefully it would stand up.

 

[Samson]

I doubt anyone is 'for' suicide. Your post is disingenuous. This seems to be a theme with you.

Oh, stop being such a pussy.

I'm all for assisted suicide, and believe its absolutely absurd that an individual cannot pay for the professional services necessary to complete the most important decision they will ever make because of some ridiculous moral code derived from goat herders' concepts of behaviours an imaginary being may or may not approve.

 

[Samson]

I don't think the majority of depressed or mentally unstable people want the help of a physician. They will just quietly do it themselves. Or not so quietly. Depends on the individual.

OK, so, why not get the help of a specialist.

For christssakes, a physician doesn' BURY people, why should it take a physician's training to euthanize anyone?

Hell, I'd be happy to open Samson's College of Euthanasia.

 

[geauxtohell]

You obviously have NOT been reading all the replies.

I said "states", not USMB posters.

I disagree with the posters on here that would support PAS for the mentally ill. I think that is (no pun intended) insane.

So do the states that have PAS laws.

Once you start down the road ....... it is a slippery slope.

No it's not. Oregon has been doing it for over a decade now.

 

[Grace]

Oregon allows it for terminally ill patients? I had no idea. Good for them.

 

[Samson]

You obviously have NOT been reading all the replies.

I said "states", not USMB posters.

I disagree with the posters on here that would support PAS for the mentally ill. I think that is (no pun intended) insane.

So do the states that have PAS laws.

Once you start down the road ....... it is a slippery slope.

I'm so fucking tired of any bend in the rules being avoided because of some gawddamn imaginary "slippery slope," or the always retarded "domino effect."

Hey, guess what: We can adjust the rules back and forth until we get them right, for christssakes.

 

[geauxtohell]

You should read some of Bill Colby's writings on this manner. A DNR is pretty set in stone, but a Living Will might not be as concrete as you think it is.

I'll have to look into that. I'll have to get new ones when I move to PA later this year. My Living Will was written by a lawyer just for that purpose. It's pretty specific and really doesn't leave much to the imagination or interpretation so hopefully it would stand up.

I've heard him speak a few times now. He's dynamic. He represented the Cruzan family in the first right to die case. He advocates for, as opposed to a living will, having a trusted confident that knows your wishes and giving them decisional capacity in your end of life care.

His logic is that it is impossible to foresee and codify every possible scenario, so it's better to have someone that can act in your best possible interests in accordance with your wishes.

The biggest disasters are people that have none of the above and a large family which usually results in a feud and the ethics council getting involved.

Anyways, here are his books:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Long-Goodbye-Deaths-Nancy-Cruzan/dp/1401901328/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1303695596&sr=8-10]Amazon.com: Long Goodbye: The Deaths of Nancy Cruzan (9781401901325): William H. Colby: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Unplugged-Reclaiming-Our-Right-America/dp/0814401600/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1303695596&sr=8-8]Amazon.com: Unplugged: Reclaiming Our Right to Die in America (9780814401606): William H. Colby: Books[/ame]

 

[geauxtohell]

Oregon allows it for terminally ill patients? I had no idea. Good for them.

Yeah, you can research it: "Death With Dignity Act".

Of note, none of the ominous predictions by the opponents to the bill have come to fruition.

It's a multistep process to ensure that people correctly meet the criteria.

Washington state has a similar bill, but Oregon is the model.

 

[geauxtohell]

I said "states", not USMB posters.

I disagree with the posters on here that would support PAS for the mentally ill. I think that is (no pun intended) insane.

So do the states that have PAS laws.

Once you start down the road ....... it is a slippery slope.

I'm so fucking tired of any bend in the rules being avoided because of some gawddamn imaginary "slippery slope," or the always retarded "domino effect."

Hey, guess what: We can adjust the rules back and forth until we get them right, for christssakes.

Coupled with the fact that you can make a "slippery slope" argument over anything. I guess we should halt all discussion.

After all, it's all a slippery slope!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

"Dr. Jack Kevorkian has been a compassionate advocate for end-of-life issues for going-on-decades now, and I will be pleased to welcome him into my cabinet as this nation's first Secretary of the Department of Conditional Aging (DCA)," President Obama announced at a short morning press conference.

CAP News | Kevorkian Tapped To Head Death Panel | Satire & Parody

 

[Grace]

I don't think the majority of depressed or mentally unstable people want the help of a physician. They will just quietly do it themselves. Or not so quietly. Depends on the individual.

OK, so, why not get the help of a specialist.

For christssakes, a physician doesn' BURY people, why should it take a physician's training to euthanize anyone?

Hell, I'd be happy to open Samson's College of Euthanasia.

May you always enjoy good health, and always be pain free. Heaven forbid you are 95, bed ridden, suffer dementia, and must rely on another human just to be turned over to keep from getting bed sores, wipe your ass and feed you with a tube.

 

[Samson]

I don't think the majority of depressed or mentally unstable people want the help of a physician. They will just quietly do it themselves. Or not so quietly. Depends on the individual.

OK, so, why not get the help of a specialist.

For christssakes, a physician doesn' BURY people, why should it take a physician's training to euthanize anyone?

Hell, I'd be happy to open Samson's College of Euthanasia.

May you always enjoy good health, and always be pain free. Heaven forbid you are 95, bed ridden, suffer dementia, and must rely on another human just to be turned over to keep from getting bed sores, wipe your ass and feed you with a tube.

I think you misunderstood, dear.

I'm in FAVOR of Euthanasia.

I just don't believe physicians are to only ones that are qualified to do it.

Hell, why not let veternarians do it?