Assault weapons ban

All these laws on gun control has not keep guns out of hand of the mentally ill or criminals or in the homes of carless parents who put guns in hands of kids. Guns in your home killing your kids is your problem, but when it kills other people kids it's a people problem and the only way to protect them is secure the schools like we do prisons.
 
:dance:
You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

In a democracy the voice of the majority has thepower to dictate to the rest but we do not live in a democracy.

We live in a constitutional Republic. In a Republic the individuals have rights that are beyond the grasp of the majority and the government. that is why, no matter what you do with the constitution, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves and the constitution.

what drives this "pro gunner" is education between what you think and what is real. It is the knowledge of the constitution, its beginnings and its evolution. It is the study of the framers convictions and how important they are to a truly independent and free society. I feel sorry for you because you do not understand where your rights come from. without that understanding you are too willing to give them up - just like other people in other countries and other times. You are bound to repeat the worst parts of history because like the people of Germany you actually believe that your government is going to protect you from all evil - even when they become that evil.
I would rather die than give up my rights. They were given to me by G_d (or nature if you prefer) and no man or group of men can take them from me without killing me. At least then I will find the peace that I crave.


Technically a republic but in most American's hearts it is a Democracy.

What you say looks good on paper but in reality it is meh.

God bless America.
 
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The topic has veered a bit into changing the Constitution or amending the Second Amendment I would just say take a real good look at Congress. Do you really trust these knuckleheads to do that without screwing it up big time?
 
You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

No, it's intelligence and humanism.

God bless Ameica.
 
The topic has veered a bit into changing the Constitution or amending the Second Amendment I would just say take a real good look at Congress. Do you really trust these knuckleheads to do that without screwing it up big time?

An amendment must be ratified by 2/3 rds of the states.

Just saying.
 
The topic has veered a bit into changing the Constitution or amending the Second Amendment I would just say take a real good look at Congress. Do you really trust these knuckleheads to do that without screwing it up big time?

An amendment must be ratified by 2/3 rds of the states.

Just saying.

Assuming Congress does not try to change that rule I put very little past them when it comes to pushing their own agenda.
 
The topic has veered a bit into changing the Constitution or amending the Second Amendment I would just say take a real good look at Congress. Do you really trust these knuckleheads to do that without screwing it up big time?

An amendment must be ratified by 2/3 rds of the states.

Just saying.

Assuming Congress does not try to change that rule I put very little past them when it comes to pushing their own agenda.[/QUOTIt's not a rule, it's a constituyional enumeration. The states would have to ratify it. 2/3'rds. Capice?
 
The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

I am addressing the point.
Strip out crimes committed by black and Hispanic men between 15 and 30 and our deaths from gun violence look like anyplace in Western Europe.

It is not the laws that make the difference. It is culture. Until you can understand that there is no debate
.


Yep, and add mentally ill folks to that list, which exhibit warning signs before they act out with a gun, but no one takes them seriously or intervenes.
They'd rather ban scary-looking barrel shrouds because they look scary...
 
An amendment must be ratified by 2/3 rds of the states.

Just saying.

Assuming Congress does not try to change that rule I put very little past them when it comes to pushing their own agenda.[/QUOTIt's not a rule, it's a constituyional enumeration. The states would have to ratify it. 2/3'rds. Capice?

I understand perfectly what I am saying is don't underestimate the ability of Congress to find a way around that if they really want to.
 
Assuming Congress does not try to change that rule I put very little past them when it comes to pushing their own agenda.[/QUOTIt's not a rule, it's a constituyional enumeration. The states would have to ratify it. 2/3'rds. Capice?

I understand perfectly what I am saying is don't underestimate the ability of Congress to find a way around that if they really want to.

Yes, they might put fluoride in the water to destroy our precious bodily fluids.:eek:
 
The United States is NOT a democracy.

Thankfully, our forefathers saw fit to keep it from being so.


.

The US IS a democracy - it is just not a DIRECT democracy. It's a representative democracy.

It's also worth remembering that referendums are signs of a direct democracy - and plenty of states hold referendums, don't they?

Some 58% of American support tighter gun control laws - while 6% say they should be looser.

If you believe in the will of the people, then you are going to back the 58%.
If you gotta use a form of the word "democracy", we are a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

Sometimes referendums require 2/3 majority.
 
It seems like the pro gun people believe in "rule from beyond the grave."

The constitution is a living document.

It is time for stricter gun control.

Stop the hating.

Numerous Supreme Court cases have held that the type of arms protected by the 2nd are those in common use by the military.
 
:dance:
The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

In a democracy the voice of the majority has thepower to dictate to the rest but we do not live in a democracy.

We live in a constitutional Republic. In a Republic the individuals have rights that are beyond the grasp of the majority and the government. that is why, no matter what you do with the constitution, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves and the constitution.

what drives this "pro gunner" is education between what you think and what is real. It is the knowledge of the constitution, its beginnings and its evolution. It is the study of the framers convictions and how important they are to a truly independent and free society. I feel sorry for you because you do not understand where your rights come from. without that understanding you are too willing to give them up - just like other people in other countries and other times. You are bound to repeat the worst parts of history because like the people of Germany you actually believe that your government is going to protect you from all evil - even when they become that evil.
I would rather die than give up my rights. They were given to me by G_d (or nature if you prefer) and no man or group of men can take them from me without killing me. At least then I will find the peace that I crave.


Technically a republic but in most American's hearts it is a Democracy.

What you say looks good on paper but in reality it is meh.

God bless America.
That's why the Pledge of Allegiance ends with "to the Republic for which it stands."
 
:dance:
In a democracy the voice of the majority has thepower to dictate to the rest but we do not live in a democracy.

We live in a constitutional Republic. In a Republic the individuals have rights that are beyond the grasp of the majority and the government. that is why, no matter what you do with the constitution, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves and the constitution.

what drives this "pro gunner" is education between what you think and what is real. It is the knowledge of the constitution, its beginnings and its evolution. It is the study of the framers convictions and how important they are to a truly independent and free society. I feel sorry for you because you do not understand where your rights come from. without that understanding you are too willing to give them up - just like other people in other countries and other times. You are bound to repeat the worst parts of history because like the people of Germany you actually believe that your government is going to protect you from all evil - even when they become that evil.
I would rather die than give up my rights. They were given to me by G_d (or nature if you prefer) and no man or group of men can take them from me without killing me. At least then I will find the peace that I crave.


Technically a republic but in most American's hearts it is a Democracy.

What you say looks good on paper but in reality it is meh.

God bless America.
That's why the Pledge of Allegiance ends with "to the Republic for which it stands."

Big deal. The pledge is not law. der.
 
It seems like the pro gun people believe in "rule from beyond the grave."

The constitution is a living document.

It is time for stricter gun control.

Stop the hating.

Numerous Supreme Court cases have held that the type of arms protected by the 2nd are those in common use by the military.

That is true and quite logically so. If we are to be able to form a militia to protect us from the government, it must have comparable weapons.
 
The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

I am addressing the point.
Strip out crimes committed by black and Hispanic men between 15 and 30 and our deaths from gun violence look like anyplace in Western Europe.

It is not the laws that make the difference. It is culture. Until you can understand that there is no debate.

The culture is now in the majority now. How you like that?
 
The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It’s almost identical to the 94 ban:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...?File_id=9a9270d5-ce4d-49fb-9b2f-69e69f517fb4

The general consensus is the 94 ban did very little to decrease gun violence if this one is basically the same it makes me wonder what the point of it is outside of trying to score some political brownie points?

It will score some points, but only with local constituents.
 
The United States is NOT a democracy.

Thankfully, our forefathers saw fit to keep it from being so.


.

The US IS a democracy - it is just not a DIRECT democracy. It's a representative democracy.

It's also worth remembering that referendums are signs of a direct democracy - and plenty of states hold referendums, don't they?

Some 58% of American support tighter gun control laws - while 6% say they should be looser.

If you believe in the will of the people, then you are going to back the 58%.
If you gotta use a form of the word "democracy", we are a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

Sometimes referendums require 2/3 majority.

Actually we are a Representative Republic. We elect folks to represent us. We do have aspects of democracy and socialism as well, but the founders specifically did not want us to the a "pure" democracy. They put in many checks, balances and safeguards against mob rule and tyranny, including 3 branches of gov't, and the Second Amendment.
 
You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

no matter what you do with the constitution, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves and the constitution.


I would rather die than give up my rights. They were given to me by G_d (or nature if you prefer) and no man or group of men can take them from me without killing me. At least then I will find the peace that I crave.

Wrong, the constitution is the rule of law. Isn't that what you conservatives kept saying during Clinton's impeachment? "No one is above the law"?

Given to you by God? Holy Moses!
 
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