Assault weapons ban

[blackhawk]

Here are a couple of things I have found silly about this proposed ban a gun having a collapsable stock or a pistol grip would now be considered a assault weapon. These have nothing to do with rate of fire or ammo capacity so the logic behind this escapes me.

 

[PaulS1950]

I know people who have thumb-hole stocks on their target rifles and they are single shot, bolt action, .22 caliber rifles that are only good for shooting at paper targets that are between 100 and 400 meters away.
Most target rifles have both a pistol grip and a forearm palm rest andsome have removable magazines. Does that make them assault rifles? Not hardly, with the 24x50 scope you could be aiming at a man's head at 100 yards and only see the surface of his skin and not know whether you were looking at his head or his a.....um...... arm.

 

[Snookie]

The constitution is a living document

Which includes, within its text, the procedures for modifying its content.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

The Constitution was drafted, written, and ratified by a minority. Just sayin'

That's because the constitutio was different when it was first ratified.

That was then and this is now.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It’s almost identical to the 94 ban:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...?File_id=9a9270d5-ce4d-49fb-9b2f-69e69f517fb4

 

[blackhawk]

The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It’s almost identical to the 94 ban:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...?File_id=9a9270d5-ce4d-49fb-9b2f-69e69f517fb4

The general consensus is the 94 ban did very little to decrease gun violence if this one is basically the same it makes me wonder what the point of it is outside of trying to score some political brownie points?

 

[Snookie]

Obama is going to pwn the gun lobby this time.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think Biden actually got it right on this one. It's less about the type of gun than the amount of ammo it can hold. Even then it won't stop anything, but it could make a marginal difference that might save a few lives a year.

I agree the ammo amount might make a slight difference though someone carrying three ten round clips can do as much damage as someone with one thirty round magazine in my opinion you can drop a empty clip out and put a full in real fast. Personally I don't think the mental health part of this has been addresses at all your not really solving anything till you deal with that.

That’s been my observation as well.

 

[PaulS1950]

You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

In a democracy the voice of the majority has thepower to dictate to the rest but we do not live in a democracy.

We live in a constitutional Republic. In a Republic the individuals have rights that are beyond the grasp of the majority and the government. that is why, no matter what you do with the constitution, we still have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves and the constitution.

what drives this "pro gunner" is education between what you think and what is real. It is the knowledge of the constitution, its beginnings and its evolution. It is the study of the framers convictions and how important they are to a truly independent and free society. I feel sorry for you because you do not understand where your rights come from. without that understanding you are too willing to give them up - just like other people in other countries and other times. You are bound to repeat the worst parts of history because like the people of Germany you actually believe that your government is going to protect you from all evil - even when they become that evil.
I would rather die than give up my rights. They were given to me by G_d (or nature if you prefer) and no man or group of men can take them from me without killing me. At least then I will find the peace that I crave.

 

[asaratis]

You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

The United States is NOT a democracy.

Thankfully, our forefathers saw fit to keep it from being so.


A democracy would have likely degenerated into a socialist state within a decade and we would have no rights other than what the dear ruler passed down to the central committee to impose upon the masses that had no means to defend themselves against the armed oppression of the government

It is pure idiocy to favor mob rule. Checks and balances are intended to protect us all from democracy.

 

[Saigon]

The United States is NOT a democracy.

Thankfully, our forefathers saw fit to keep it from being so.


.

The US IS a democracy - it is just not a DIRECT democracy. It's a representative democracy.

It's also worth remembering that referendums are signs of a direct democracy - and plenty of states hold referendums, don't they?

Some 58% of American support tighter gun control laws - while 6% say they should be looser.

If you believe in the will of the people, then you are going to back the 58%.

 

[The Rabbi]

The United States is NOT a democracy.

Thankfully, our forefathers saw fit to keep it from being so.


.

The US IS a democracy - it is just not a DIRECT democracy. It's a representative democracy.

It's also worth remembering that referendums are signs of a direct democracy - and plenty of states hold referendums, don't they?

Some 58% of American support tighter gun control laws - while 6% say they should be looser.

If you believe in the will of the people, then you are going to back the 58%.

Was there a vote taken? Link?
Let me ask the question and I will give you the poll result you want.

Do you favor laws that will only disarm honest American citizens and leave criminals in control of deadly weapons?

Anyway, even people backing an AWB concede it doesnt do anything to control violence. So it is an empty political gesture, with real infringements on liberty.

 

[jtpr312]

You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

 

[The Rabbi]

You can make the choice using your own conscience, you have that right too, but you do not have the right, or even the power, to make that choice for others.

The majority does have a right to amend the constitution to make choices for the minority, if they so chose.

Is it self defense or paranoia that drives some pro gunners?

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

Both. That and a utopian desire that most people have outgrown by the teenage years.

 

[Saigon]

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

It is not paranoia or ignorance to suggest that Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations - it's a fact.

Until you guys start addressing points like this with a little honesty, you are not really going to get to the starting point of this issue.

 

[The Rabbi]

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

It is not paranoia or ignorance to suggest that Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations - it's a fact.

Until you guys start addressing points like this with a little honesty, you are not really going to get to the starting point of this issue.

Actually it is not a fact. It is a factoid. Divorced from context it is meaningless. The fact is that if you are a middle class white person your chances of dying from gunshot wounds are about what they are in France.

But even if that were fact, there are no proposals for laws that would affect that fact one bit.

 

[Saigon]

The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

 

[Underhill]

I think Biden actually got it right on this one. It's less about the type of gun than the amount of ammo it can hold. Even then it won't stop anything, but it could make a marginal difference that might save a few lives a year.

I think you meant to say it's not about the type of gun or its ammo capacity; rather, it's about who has the gun.

Assault Weapons - United States Senator Dianne Feinstein

military-style assault weapons

What about non-'military-style' 'assault weapons'? What is 'military-style'? Black? On a sling?
ufacturing and importation of:

at least one military feature: pistol grip;does not effect how or what the weapon fires, nor the firing rate, nor who's holding it forward grip same; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock same. ; grenade launcher or rocket launcher OMG, do you people realize their are already laws about this? ; barrel shroud because you should be required to burn yourself when hunting or defending your home...; or threaded barrel which, again, does not effect the operation of the firearm .

So... the shape of the grip- pistol grip or not... that's what these idiots are freaking out about, because that totally effects... anything

How does a pistol grip change the operation of my shotgun?

shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Because the way the round is cycled effects... nothing...

And how do you measure the number of 'rounds' my shotgun holds? Are they going to ban mini-shells?

Nope, I meant exactly what I said.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

I am addressing the point.
Strip out crimes committed by black and Hispanic men between 15 and 30 and our deaths from gun violence look like anyplace in Western Europe.

It is not the laws that make the difference. It is culture. Until you can understand that there is no debate.

 

[tap4154]

The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

I am addressing the point.
Strip out crimes committed by black and Hispanic men between 15 and 30 and our deaths from gun violence look like anyplace in Western Europe.

It is not the laws that make the difference. It is culture. Until you can understand that there is no debate.

Yep, and add mentally ill folks to that list, which exhibit warning signs before they act out with a gun, but no one takes them seriously or intervenes.

 

[martybegan]

The Rabbi -

That's not a terribly strong argument, is it?!

Again, Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations. By using laws similar to those in those 20 countries, the US could reduce its homicide rate massively.

When you are willing to address that point rather than run away from it, let me know.

I am addressing the point.
Strip out crimes committed by black and Hispanic men between 15 and 30 and our deaths from gun violence look like anyplace in Western Europe.

It is not the laws that make the difference. It is culture. Until you can understand that there is no debate.

Don't worry you will be called a racist for pointing this out....

Its a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless.